[CS1] Mu-12 vs Hakumen

[Runis]

Now, why are you letting him 4C the laser?

The whole idea of using 6C to FC him, is that you bait the 4C with the slow laser, and then screw up his timing with a 6C to hit him before his 4C is able to cut the actual laser. He shouldn't have a void on the field is what I'm getting at.

[Mightfo]

Now, why are you letting him 4C the laser?

The whole idea of using 6C to FC him, is that you bait the 4C with the slow laser, and then screw up his timing with a 6C to hit him before his 4C is able to cut the actual laser. He shouldn't have a void on the field is what I'm getting at.

Yeah, exactly. If you limit yourself to one stein at a time instead of two, you can definitely hit him with 6C by the time he could cut the followup laser.

[MisoSowee]

Does an aerial 6c FC still cause wall bounce and the 5k+ combos? If not haku could use j.C with relative safety compared to a ground 6c FC :o

[GenoWhirl]

6C causes wallbounce even on normal hit on an airbone opponent, so 6C Air fatal should still lead into pain

[Aginor]

Does an aerial 6c FC still cause wall bounce and the 5k+ combos? If not haku could use j.C with relative safety compared to a ground 6c FC :o

Yes it does but thing about mu 6c FC combos is whether the opponent is on the ground, air, near the corner, or if he/she is midscreen. Depending on where they are, you have to adjust your combo. I've been able to get 6-7k combos off of 6c FC on opponents in the air depending on the circumstances. If those circumstances aren't in place then probably 4-5k I would assume.

Oh yea. None of the 6c fatal combos posted in the combo discussion work against characters in the air. I've tried it myself.

[Aginor]

Hakumen - between 5.5-4.5 and 7-3 in Hakumen's favor

We all know that Hakumen is the bane of zoning characters. Not only does he do great damage, but because of his new attribute of cutting projectiles, Mu can't really zone him. Mu has to really rely on rushdown, oki and spacing to win this match (fun fact, if you hit with the tip of 5C or 6C, Hakumen's counter throw will whiff). Whatever you do, don't zone him for long periods of time. Place some steins and do 236D to approach. Hakumen's 4C also is a pain to deal with.

Discussion transfer.

[TD]

ls mu's 6c a decent anti-air/punisher period? Maybe she could play midrange.

[NickExtreme1]

ls mu's 6c a decent anti-air/punisher period? Maybe she could play midrange.

Not really a good anti-air, but it is a good mid-range poke (with a fatal counter possibility for massive combo damage) to keep Hakumen out. Mu-12's best anti-airs would be 6A and 2C. 6A would be better to use, since it comes out fast against Hakumen's great air-dash speed.

[TD]

Ok, if those are the cases, Mu could play a litchi-esque game by baiting him at mid-range. lf he dashes get ready to anti air. lf he cuts orbs, 6c him on recovery if possible. lf he dashes at you, trip him. At neutral, set a orb and predict what he'll do next. Likely his next option depends on how you placed your orb. Just put yourself in his shoes l guess.

[MisoSowee]

my 6a clashes way too much with haku's j.2c ._.

2c works a bit more because its hitbox extends into haku's hittable box. Thing is it's so awful on whiff it's like T________T

Yes this matchup is gay.

[Big Red Tie]

i don't even bother trying to anti air hakumen, i try very, very hard to zone him out in the air with j.C and set up some steins

[TD]

Meet him in the air.

[Synthesis]

6C won't work as a punish for him cutting a projectile. The attack counts as a projectile, so it will only get eating by the orb.

[MisoSowee]

IT's good to note that 6c is a mix of physical and projectile. It can be sledged, but at the same time yukikaze will cause mu to be frozen. It also can't create a black void by haku.

[PartyEagle]

. It also can't create a black void by haku.

yes it can, the timings just very strict for the hakumen, on several ocassions i have seen haku's 4c create a void off of connecting with a 6c . but if you place it properly and hit hakumen and not his sword then that wont happen.

[MisoSowee]

Damn just tried it out. That is pretty strict timing. Does 6c have like 2 active frames or something >_<

[PartyEagle]

its got some active frames on it, just not for the entirety of the time its out there. that would be retarded. also have a odd theory that it only has projectile properties for a certain time frame. but this is most likely just my personal bs and has no solid basis whatsoever lol

[whitevoid]

4C really isn't all that huge huge an issue, imo. Mostly because it does crap for damage. He'd have to hit you with like 10 CH 4Cs to equal the damage you get off a FC 6C. So the risk/reward is still in your favor. Also you can set up steins behind him, which limits his ability to cut.

Still a bad match-up, but just some thoughts.

[Jugiatsu]

Ok what about Rush down air-to-ground Haku. For example last night my friend and I played for like 4 hours. I main Mu and he was playing Haku. He would knock me down, I would tech roll back, he air dashes forward, and by the time I get up he is on me. Now unfortunately it looks like the only thing Mu has on Hakumen at this point is 612C.

Haku beats everything else:

His 2As are faster than Mus 2A

His 2Bs are faster than Mus 2B

His 2Cs are faster than Mus 2C

Your 6A loses to his 236C which IMO is freaking ridiculous. Thankfully 5A pokes him out of it. At least it did for me.

His neutral A and B's beat yours. Not sure about C.

So yeah. Get good at that 612C counter and pray to God he doesnt get on top of you.

[MisoSowee]

You might want to roll forward in such a situation. You've gotta always mix it up.

And yeah his normals are boss compared to yours (c'mon arksys why you gotta follow murakumo moves)

In this matchup you've got to always keep your distance from him, which is pretty hard to do with his IAD. Often my 6a will clash with his j.2c and that just means he's automatically in.

Another thing about hakumen players is if you really get the scare on 'em (by baiting their drives and such) oftentimes they'll use drives in very unorthadox situations (lol it's what I did) trying to catch you off guard. I try to use more grabs because it'll beat out his counters, and even if he techs that leaves you at a neutral, midscreen position, which is much better than up close.

Also when you see him floating above you after a double jump, either just run to the other side or super jump into grab (especially if you've got 50 meter) Haku's very strong in the air horizontally, but vertically the only thing he's got is j.2c and j.B (still good, but pales to his j.c at horizontal power)

Also if you're in the corner try to get out however you can. His corner combo damage is 4k+ easily, even off of a poke like 2b. It's the worst place to be, seriously.

About using 6c to beat out 4c it's a great tool, but it'll totally get destroyed if haku decides to IAD. try to only do it if you have a stein to cover you.(2d/5d is pretty good)

[whitevoid]

236A travels at a nice upward angle to cut off his air approach. of course, it's a free cut, but since it's up in the air it's not quite as easy for him to tank in it. probably not the best idea if he's already up at you though.

If he's up-close just block low. His damage mids are seeable (Tsubaki, and Zenetsu? I think that's the name). 6B isn't so bad that you can't win while eating a few of them. If you're ducking, you he can't 5A you since you're too low (or it should, I believe). So now he's left with 2A which isn't nearly as good. Maybe 6B goes over it, I dunno.

What the heck is 236C? You mean 41236C? 6A is probably faster, just not fast enough to do on reaction. If you see it just block it. He's just burning meter which means he's got to wait to threaten you for damage.

As far as IADing over 6C is concerned in the 4C versus 6C thing, you could say the same for 4C.

[Synthesis]

I think someone needs to learn some notation lol.

Mu doesn't have a 612C, 41236C or a 236C. Bad notation, but I think I understand what you mean.

Anyways, the 63214C is good for smacking Hakumen out of the air, methinks. Someone should try this after a stein if he IAD's it.

[Big Red Tie]

it only hits an IAD

if the hakumen waits just a bit you'll get punished

[TD]

Wow this match sucks. Midrange sucks ;_;

[Sol.Badguy]

This match blows. Mu's the only character I've been playing and every time i find a Hakumen I cry a little inside.