AcidAce Posted July 18, 2010 Posted July 18, 2010 (edited) this match up might be the worst for mu 12 out of all the chars from my little experience. hazama can zone in and just throw out his chain making it hard for you to safely position D turrets while being smash while at it. as mu your j5C is your best tool in this fight if he likes to jump back with and throw out 5D or 6s. on the ground try get 236D out as fast as you can ever with 1 turret and rush in there. after geting in stick on him for the life of you. also try to fake him out with D turrets during block strings these help. this is about all i can say on this match up with my 4 days of playing her =0 so ill edit it later when the game comes out. late ass update =0:things to do as mu to help using 6A on hazama 5D A is pretty useful try baiting a 5d or j 6D with steins with jump Cancels and dash fowards with jb or c. it work pretty well IF you know how to time it. dont use 6C out of the blue unless your mid screen or doing in from a safe distance with 5c or else youll get punished bad =0 236236B special answer? lag? GG no lag? bait it off wake up. works for me(i guess) update 2: how the game goes for these two (in a nut shell) what you can do to fight this awesome troll: this fight IS in hazama favor end of story. but it is with holes and ways to make hazama life a living hell. its just the fact is you have to work VERY hard to keep it that way. this living hell im talking about is have TWO steins place far away (note 5D 6D) at all times ready to go. hazama is bad at moving without his chains. with this in mind its very easy to get 214D without much problem you would have on other char that can run or otherwise. when this does happen dash in with a common block string that always lead up to two D set ups(Example 2b 2C 3C #D #D). now why two instead is the fact mu after her block stream is ALWAYS in danger afterward with hazama #Ds and his god like anti air moves. best i do is just block it all time i get something to work with in his defense or get a chance to run away. thats about in on defense and block streams. on offense is to get a 3c trip on him to your 2b 5c 6c d steins setups. after that KEEP IT THAT WAY and keep knocking him down back to setup. about that how you do that is up how good your offense is. what hazama can do and what to look out for in general (Coming soon when i decide to update again). Edited May 10, 2011 by Aginor
KojinSagara Posted July 19, 2010 Posted July 19, 2010 ?: doesn't he have a legit reversal to use agaist MU's pressure? I think you may be right in that fallign in love with the stiens to much can be the worst thing to do. one stien is good in a nuetral advantage, on knockdown, is where Mu must take advantage. He also has a reversal super, so baiting those once he gets the Heat for it is critical to keeping him on lockdown. This is my feeling on the matchup. then again we also have a good reversal. Ive been watchin loads of video for when i finally get my hands on this game, but I admittedly need to look at hazama more.
Heroic_Legacy Posted July 21, 2010 Posted July 21, 2010 Instant Hazama sees you grounded and tossing steins he can just do his ground distortion and then you eat damage for trying to zone.
ikeTATARI Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Did you know that Steins cancel Ouroburos? So his Drive is useless if she has any steins out at all. It's a pretty even matchup, maybe a slight advantage for Mu, because if you have enough Steins in you can stop his Drive from reaching you, and Hazama's movement is pretty terrible without it. His supers I guess give him some advantage, but Mu can just zone him all day long. This is coming from a Hazama player vsing a Mu player - I can't get in because the steins themselves, the lasers they shoot, and the explosions all stop Ouroburos in place and make most of his movement followups off of it unsafe. Since he has no other way to get in, as long as you can keep him far away, you win! However, I will say that if the Hazama player keeps himself in (with speedy usage of all of his different drive options) it could at least be even for the Mu player, but once she gets knockdown and some steins out on oki his Ouroburos gets infinitely less useful.
Synthesis Posted July 29, 2010 Posted July 29, 2010 Actually, the steins themselves don't cancel ouroboros, but on reaction if Hazama does any drive move towards you, you can 214D the steins (which count as a hitbox instantly and will eat his ouroboros) and you will get a counter hit 214D by possibly multiple steins which do TONS of damage and hit stun, so you could even dash in and 2C j.C j.2C stein followup for oki. I'd say it's about even, though, because if you're spamming retardedly, ouroboros will fuck you up.
ecksdek Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 I am having a lot of trouble with this match-up. Just finished playing a few games with a Hazama and I just could not find a way to win. Any zoning stein will easily get punished by chains, especially if they are air steins. The neutral stein won't be of much use without 236D, though. If Hazama moves around the tracking on the laser freaks out and it won't be shot anywhere near Hazama. 214D to stop chains does not work because it has such a long startup. Mu will just get countered out of it by a chain, and if Hazama countered late enough the steins will all disappear with no explosion (stupid feature). The only times I could get ahead where when I oki'd and rushed that shit down. If Hazama gets out Mu has a very difficult time of getting back in unless she has steins which are hard to get in neutral. Mu's air to ground game is pretty terrible, and that is the only way she can get in without steins. 6C is pretty much useless in this match-up. The start-up will get chained every time unless you do something weird like 6C for oki. Even if it doesn't get countered by a chain during start-up if the head of the chain is anywhere in the hitbox the two will clash. Not actually specific to Hazama, but has anyone else realized how useless Omohikane is has a reversal super? I have had some pretty bad clashes with it, but Hazama's 5A clashing with it definitely takes the cake. Better to just DP in every situation.
MisoSowee Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 Has anyone tried 236a? Not mashing it of course, but I feel like it'll provide some protection to place a stein, maybe two. and yeah Omohikane clashed with litchi's j.B. fml.
ecksdek Posted July 30, 2010 Posted July 30, 2010 236A doesn't work well, but Hazama can't get out of corner pressure at all if you block the Jayoku. Only way I have been able to win.
GenoWhirl Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 Omohikane still beats some shit it houldn't, and loses to some shit it shouldn't OMOHIKANEH > MTW FOREVER D:< ..Then again, George > MTW
NickExtreme1 Posted July 31, 2010 Posted July 31, 2010 236A doesn't work well, but Hazama can't get out of corner pressure at all if you block the Jayoku. Only way I have been able to win. Truth about Jayoku. Interesting funny fact: On-reaction Omohikane after Jayoku will land clean. Did this against my friend who mains Hazama and the dark green/black pillar that Jayoku generates freezes in place during Omohikane's animation. Truly an epic sight
Aginor Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Hazama - 5-5 Hazama has good zoning and if he gets a counter hit ouroboros while Mu is placing a stein, she takes damage and gets pressured. Unfortunately, Mu's pressure is very strong, but IB Jayoku poses a threat to long strings. This matchup is very even, I feel. Mu vs Hazama thoughts: Ive been playing my freinds hazama with mu all week, and were not pros with the combos yet but in terms of the match's spacing game and zoning from both sides its slightly lin mu's favor IMO. you have to place stiens but at the same time, you should be able to bait the Drives from Hazama at long range. it has great range but your stiens has greater range, he'll have to step forward or jump toward you a bit first before activating ouroborous. Its about reading on what he likes to do after the Drive is cast. For me, if the player is smart he'll mix it up constantly but knowing that he can't stay long range the whole match (if hes looking for his BnB) like lambda helps. he has to get in. I try to get a stein out as close as possible to me first to give me access to 214D , then I either shoot out a 6D to pressure him into using the drive at a range im ready to respond to. I also tried using jC to punish follow ups, and mix it with 236A at long range. 236A IMO is really good for supporting Mu's long-range zoning game. It discourages Air Dash Approaches and I can hide behind it for a second to place a stien. Hazama can't risk a C or D Followup from Ouroboros because the projectile stays out even if the initial drive clashes with it, if he does, that should be a free CH combo for Mu, which I lead lead to Stien Okizeme, where Mu excels. I also try doing 2369 A for the ground version to give it a more favorable angle, but I'm not positive that this move is good against hazama outside of long range. But once Hazama reaches 50 heat I try to pressure and space outside of that reversal move's range instinctively, so far i've been okay but im not convinced, because if I get preoccupied with stiens I sometimes get caught in his other super lol. even doing all of that, If i mess up once, or get too preoccupied placeing stiens, I get smacked by that drive of his and he goes into his bnb. plus just him moving around messes up how I want to set up the field, and either tend to back off and start over, which rarely works because now, youre playing tag with Hazama or get ready to block. Ive won most of the games so far, but i almost never win decively. Its almost always close. I do think that Mu's pressure game is overall better than hazama's and she can get damage in more diverse ways than he can. Outside of his drive Hazama doesnt seem to have a move with range that he can continue pressure afterwards, so it simplifies the game fo rme some. I know right now we both haven't masterd everythings but just off of basic strategy and such I say its in Mu's favor, but not much better than 55/45. Discussion transfer. EDIT: More discussion transferred.
UZI4YOU Posted August 1, 2010 Posted August 1, 2010 Being a player of the other side even If the chain does hit your block if the hazama reels in you can 623C and I guess go back to pressure, just be careful spamming steins on the ground because you can eat a super. just my nooby add on.
TD Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 This is just like RC vs HZ. Fullscreen is mu's favor Anything midscreen hazama's favor Mu's saving grace however, is that her moves are of long range and can punish a retreating hazama. It's good tht her oki is strong, by the time he gets heat he'll waste no time using it. Then we're back to square one. Why's this not in Mu's favor again?
ecksdek Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Fullscreen is Hazama's favor actually. If Mu lets Hazama zone her then she loses. Chains don't go full across the screen, but a quick dash or jump forwards solves that. Jumping steins are never safe against Hazama except for oki. He WILL chain any attempt to throw out jumping steins, especially at full screen. Throwing out two steins and then JC back can work if you don't spam it. Get up close and stay on him to win. He can't get out of Mu's oki for shit.
NumeroGaijin Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Key to this matchup plain and simple is patience. This is a very defensive matchup for hazama especially when she has her steins out. STAY AWAY FROM THE CORNER! Mu does have the ability to lock you down in the corner for decent period of time in which she can (with proper stein placement) commence with an almost FREE rushdown that even IBing will not help. If you can wait it out her rushdown then you may have a chance at getting in.
TD Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Somebody please explain to me, why everytime l barrier jayakou, not only do l still get hit, but it's FC too? l swear. l mashed my hands to back A+B, and it went right on through, air AND ground. And these are baited. l'm Baiting his dp and getting fc'd. 7 times this happened to me last night, and once just now. l'm going to go crazy if it happens again.
AcidAce Posted August 5, 2010 Author Posted August 5, 2010 Somebody please explain to me, why everytime l barrier jayakou, not only do l still get hit, but it's FC too? l swear. l mashed my hands to back A+B, and it went right on through, air AND ground. And these are baited. l'm Baiting his dp and getting fc'd. 7 times this happened to me last night, and once just now. l'm going to go crazy if it happens again. perhaps lag? online play is seriously questionable when it comes to percision. but if its not that reason and its and something else try 623C. youll lose a combo thou =0.
Big Red Tie Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 probably what's happening is you're hitting one of the buttons before the other causing you to do an attack and get counterhit
TD Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Nah l mapped the buttons. D is L1, and A+B+C is R1 (for easier barrier blocking/bursting... and yeah l play pad still :P). That's the problem though! The barrier is SHOWN during the super flash so l know l did it, but l still get fc'd!!!!!! raeg But l never thought about dping it... hmm, now a few ideas come to mind. l can blow up steins, dp, maybe even do mu's gdlk backdash!
Synthesis Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 who says im a man I love you, but lets keep this thread on topic, please. Hotenjin hurts. Don't use 6B against him if he has meter. He can reaction a FC hotenjin. T_T
TD Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 love you too sweety! ^.- Ok, here's my problem, besides the case of the musteriously unblockable sweet chin music... >_> Zoning and running away seems like the best strat so far. lt works... but then l get struck by a d chain, and he really puts me in a big dumbass bind that makes me really scream all sorts or wtf at the tv. So during pressure. do all Hazama's do 3c in their strings into his stance? lf so, l believe l can escape with dp/backdash.. right? Basically, when is the best time to move/strike?
FlyingVe Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 You should be able to punish him for going into his stance (all the other characters can), there's a reason that Hazama boards tell people not to use it for mixup. However, I have yet to figure out what that ideal move is. 5C is a smidge too slow, and 5B will wiff if he goes low (same with 2B if he goes high). Usually, I just back dash, and DP, maybe super if they're being really predictable. Remember, Hazama also has the option to cancel 3C into Jabaki. Be careful not to get hit by that in the corner when your expecting the stance.
TD Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 l've been hit by it before, thank goodness no followup. Ok, gotcha. There's one more thing. How do l counter his chains? (Not move, l actually want to counter them if possible.) Not predictably of course, but l know 2c and 6a clashes at least. l don't want him following up thinking it's free pressure.
FlyingVe Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 What do you mean by counter the chain? Even if you were to clash with the chain, Hazama can still do chain followups. If you block the chain, it's pretty easy to hit him out of the followups with 6A, 2C, or DP. Sadly, the internet makes the chain follow-ups seem a lot safer than they actually are.
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