Big Red Tie Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 hazama will need to keep pressure on you otherwise steins -> hazama has no options if you pressure well hazama is not incredible at extended pressure. yeah, mixups and crossups, but nothing especially extended. not bang extended
FlyingVe Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 @Zeromus: Basically Hazama out zones you, so you can't set anything up. It forces you to approach through his chains, which is exactly what he want. If you succeed and knock him down, you have a shot. Also, unlike Lambda, Hazama has some options up close, and his reversal is terrifying.
FlyingVe Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 Nope, and if you can put a screen between you and the snake charmer, steins can be really annoying. But a simple dash forward into chain can make life hell for Mu in the neutral. Even if you Jump Cancel and block the chain, the laser won't fire and you're one step closer to being in the corner. Personally, I would wait until I knock him down or away to start with the steins, cause if you are putting up a stein wall while he's busy getting off the ground, it can be very hard for him to use his chain. When you have the advantage Mu does pretty well I think, the same is true for Hazama. However, it's easier for Hazama to get momentum, keep momentum, and stop your momentum (50 heat = Death). Lastly, DP is super important in this matchup, abuse it if he's on you up close. He'll either have to frame trap (DP), do a crappy mixup (Block/DP/backdash), or go back to chain pressure (F!@&*^!!!).
TD Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 Hazama up close is infinitely worse than afar. But first, anything BUT fullscreen, Hazama reaches; but see, he can easily Tarzan himself right over to you if you catch my drift. He ruins steins setups which is really bad, but whether you try and stay away or rushdown, either way you'll be close to him. He >>>>>> Mu anywhere, but close range... He will murder you. No really, he will murder you. Mu sucks close up, he excels. He can even IB dp through ALLLLLLL of your mixups for 5k. Sitting duck, Mu.
FlyingVe Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 @Tempest: Try and help me out here. You keep saying that Hazama is rocking you up close. I can say for a fact that his mixup is less than stellar, so what specifically is giving you trouble? Perhaps somebody (maybe a Hazama main) can help you with your problem? Simply repeating that Hazama rapes you isn't particularly insightful.
TD Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 l already said. Hazama has everything. His 214d-a can be comboed into (lv 1 or 2), used at anytime. He prevents any type of escape in the corner (214d-a works as anti air into pressure, 236d or 214d-b stops dp or poke attempts, option select jayakou prevents roll, frame trap blockstrings, 6a as the "secret overhead" into 3+k) Most of this is also midscreen. When he's conditioned you, he can mix in command (throw) for 40+ meter/5k. I suppose you'd just have to experience what l mean to believe it...
Synthesis Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 I understand what you're saying, but there are easy ways around most of that. When you expect the stance, buffer in a backdash and get the hell out of there and punish his attempt to do anything. He can feint the stance but if he does, you're both at neutral and you can always run away. Yes, his chains are annoying, but do you know what is worse? Mu's steins. Put them out relentlessly. They are SPECIAL and JUMP CANCELLABLE. If he uses a whiffed chain to attempt to get in, push him back out with a SoD. If he tries doing a chain and you JC block it, watch. You can REACT to him flying in on you. If he cancels it, set more steins or put out a 236A. Or, if he tries to get in, after you see him trying to pull himself in, do a 2C. That will most likely CH him into whatever you want. Steins destroy his chain. The hitbox of the stein itself will stop his chain (when it is first placed) the laser will stop his chain, 214D stops his chain, 236D stops his chain, everything will stop his chain. You can zone, but do it well, and if you rush him down, just keep an eye on his meter to watch out for Jayoku. 214D~B is a poverty DP. He must enter stance first so the invincibility on that doesn't start up until a little while after he inputs the command. Just space 5C and 6C attacks into SoD or a stein placement, and airdash in. If you think he will chain or try to 214D~B you out of the air, bait it like you would anything else.
FlyingVe Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 l already said. Hazama has everything. His 214d-a can be comboed into (lv 1 or 2), used at anytime. He prevents any type of escape in the corner (214d-a works as anti air into pressure, 236d or 214d-b stops dp or poke attempts, option select jayakou prevents roll, frame trap blockstrings, 6a as the "secret overhead" into 3+k) Most of this is also midscreen. When he's conditioned you, he can mix in command (throw) for 40+ meter/5k. I suppose you'd just have to experience what l mean to believe it... 1) Comboed into? I've never seen that. You can DP, and backdash it on reaction, plus if you IB the move he cancels into the stance you can lol punish it. It sounds like you are relying on prediction instead of reaction. Everything that comes from the stance is slow and/or DP able. 2)214D-A, super jump over it, backdash, DP. 3)214B - Umm... it won't hit you out of 5C (spaced), and you can punish him hard for doing it in a string. 4)Don't roll if your in the corner, Hazama can punish rolls hard, the corner really sucks in this matchup. 5)Frame Traps - These aren't unique to Hazama, if you know one is coming DP, or jab or backdash depending on range. IBing ruins is frame trap game. Also, you can just block the frame trap and be patient. 6)6A - it's an overhead, and not a great one, blocking or DP is your only option. I recommend blocking as he can't really follow it up. 7) Just like when you're fighting Tager or Bang, you just have to react to the setups. Hazama has neither range (tager) or mobility (bang), so you will only have to watch for it for a sec before he's out of range and will have to try something risky to get back in to do it. @Synthesis: JC'ing steins is great for getting rocks out, but if you block the chain, the laser won't fire . Who ever has the zoning momentum dominates pretty well. Relentless stiens make it hard to chain, and relentless chains make it hard to stein. 6C can be fun if he's being to reckless with chains.
TD Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 l really think you guys are going to have to experience how useless everything is that Mu has on him. Hate to be the party crasher here, and l really, really hate to say things like this... so l won't and i'll opt to say that you guys do not know what you're up against. You really, truthfully don't. Everything seems so easily doable until you get into that room... ok you know what i've said enough. Until better Hazama's appear worldwide and mindfucks everyone, l guess you guys strats will still work
FlyingVe Posted August 31, 2010 Posted August 31, 2010 You're acting like we've never played good Hazama players before and that's just not true. Implying thus is awfully insulting, especially when everyone here is trying their best to give you advice and help out. Perhaps, you could explain what Hazama is doing to counter our suggestions and we could have a discussion, rather than just whining and shitting all over everything. And, just to repeat myself, everybody is aware that this is a bad matchup, nobody is arguing that.
St1ckBuG Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 So wait, all I gotta do is: -DP everything he does because his pressure is bad -Beat his chains with steins because they can hit everywhere on the screen instantly -Block his really crappy safe mixup -Bait his awful reversals ... and I'm good to go? Thanks for the good advice guys.
Big Red Tie Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 no one ever said put out steins and you win you put out steins then you have to hit him also apparently chains + followup are instant and he can gauntlet hades you over and over and that's unblockable and safe
Aginor Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 no one ever said put out steins and you win you put out steins then you have to hit him also apparently chains + followup are instant and he can gauntlet hades you over and over and that's unblockable and safe Uhh...Hazama doesn't have gauntlet hades... You also might want to put some pressure on Hazama before you summon steins.
Big Red Tie Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 214DA = gauntlet hades yeah the notation is shorter whatever also there are two situations, one of which i already posted and the other, others posted. either you're out of range of snake or knocked him down/pressured
Aginor Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 Gauntlet hades is a move of Ragna's...not Hazama's. It's called Rising Fang....I wouldn't really count on being out of range of the snake because it's only a small distance that Hazama can easily cover by jumping forward.
Big Red Tie Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 and there are no similarities at all between the two moves also the time it takes him to get in range + startup and travel time means you can set at least one stein, or he can guess wrong and you can set multiple
Aginor Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 I guess....you might be able to get one out and block. I don't think he would guess wrong since Hazama should be reacting to where you're going next. Even if he were to use the wrong chain he can cancel it with A. It's possible you could get a few but it'd be pretty risky. I wouldn't be surprised if Mu still got punished.
Big Red Tie Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 you can get one out and not have to block iirc
Synthesis Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 You guys are so contradictory sometimes. How does Hazama hit you? He reacts. Why can't you guys react as well? Just because you blocked a chain doesn't mean the placement of the stein was useless. React to him coming in from his chains and DP him or 6C him. The stein is a bait to lure him to try and get in. DPing everything he does isn't a good idea, and you all know it. I'm saying you can reaction DP his stance commands, but the safer option is to just backdash or IABD or something to get AWAY from him in order to put on the pressure.
Big Red Tie Posted September 1, 2010 Posted September 1, 2010 214d-a is +2/+8... on block, yes? you're not supposed to block it. pay attention.
Recommended Posts