Dallas-Fort Worth Thread

[Mightfo]

There's an iPlayWinner BB podcast where they talk about why BB isn't as popular as it could be. One of the things they say, is that the character designs turn people off. I mean, how many people genuinely like Platinum or, Carl as characters in a non-tongue in cheek sort of way? I like Arcana Heart characters because they are so ridiculous. I like Ryu because he is Ōyama Masutatsu.

I listened to that podcast but I thought that part was silly. I also think it's contradictory that you bring up AH after criticizing Carl/Platina. Whenever my circle of (only moderately anime) friends looked at BB, each person was attracted to 3-5 charas and thought the cast was pretty good. Show the same people the AH3 cast and it's like "Boring, except i guess those 1-2 charas are kind of cool." AH3's cast is pretty bad. I don't buy the "parody" excuse. Heart and maybe Fiona seem likely to be parodies, everyone else is just sort of mediocre design. BB's cast comes across to me as being more parody-likely than AH's.

The podcast was like "ohh we've got every fetish covered etc, stripper, goth loli, catgirl, etc" which is rather true, but acting like that's the only attribute each character has is dishonest. I mean, let's look at it, and then think about other fighters:

Arakune is awesome. Pretty much everyone thinks his design is legit, even if they don't particularly want to play him.

I can see Bang as being sort of obnoxious to some, but almost everyone I know still thinks he's cool as shit, even if he's like Dan+Kamen Rider.

Carl himself is pretty mediocre to most, yeah. IMO the doll is awesome, and carl has a few nice things(Cape, Tophat, "Checkmate~") but his shirt/shorts sort of make him just end up boring. Also, IIRC Carl's not supposed to appeal to Shotacons, but apparently to Fujoshis who identify with Nirvana.

Hakumen is fucking awesome. Everyone likes Hakumen.

Hazama. Do I need to say anything?

Tager. See Hazama.

Jin. The voice when fighting ragna really annoys some people, which I think cuts down on his appeal some. Otherwise, IMO he's better than most games' shotos as a character.

Litchi. Yeah, yeah, glorious tits, 4D is like a launch-from-stripper-pole attack, but I think once you see Litchi fight, with all the sort of turning she does in her attacks and what not, she's pretty stylish, not to mention being gorgeous aside from tits due to her hair and dress. I think she's a lot better than most characters with big tits.

Makoto. Podcast specifically noted her as making our job to get more people into BB harder, which I agree with. Tonfa-esque weapons+Energetic girl is quite fine, adding the tail is fucking obnoxious to me but it's still fine with a lot of people, but then the clothes are ridiculous, especially with barely anything around her waist. If she had cooler clothes, I think she'd be alright even if mainly appealing to people who like "energetic"-style girls + like the tail thing, but she's meh.

Noel is cool as fuck. The main thing that turns her off for people is the moe "I'm weak"-ness, but aside from that I think her design is pretty strong.

Haven't seen Platina(platinum is a shitty name, i'm going to call her platina, deal w/ it) in action that much, so it's hard to judge if she's got much interesting stuff to liberate her, but IMO at the least she's better than Makoto. I feel like her design is more legitimately cute than most of AH3's cast. Huge strawberry hair, huge staff, the clothes, etc. She's not as visually copy-paste as Rachel, even if she draws on "traditional" loli stuff. Not great or anything, but I feel like she's a fine vehicle for magic loli, though she definitely pushes some people away.

Rachel herself looks like copy paste gothic loli for the most part, but Nago and Gii are fantastic and Rachel's voice and mannerisms make her great. You'd have to be pretty insecure about your masculinity to actively not like her just because she looks like a young girl.

Ragna's hair fucking sucks. Otherwise, his clothes and sword are awesome, and his voice is manly as all hell. If he was more interesting, I'd play him more seriously. I get the impression that a lot of people think he's cool. Fuck that hair, though.

Taokaka, while a catgirl, is better than most anime catgirls because she's not as sexually fanservicey. Can be obnoxious voice wise similar to Noel, but otherwise I think she's a great catgirl design.

Tsubaki's clothes are strange and look a lot better with other color palettes. She looks sort of like Skies of Arcadia+Lawrence of Arabia. People could be a bit confused by her design, but I doubt anyone would be turned away because of it.

Valk's alright. Butlers are sort of overdone and werewolves are boring(though lmaooo at the bow in wolf form) but he's not bad. I don't see anyone in the "I like tekken/sf designs" crowd getting bored by him, at the least.

Nu-13/Lamda-11 is fucking cool. I think most people are visually impressed by her, even if they don't care for zoning.

Mu is alright. She looks a lot cooler in pre-battle form. Jumpsuit palettes help, though, as do her laser-y melee attacks. Lamda is more impressive.

I can see a lot of people being turned off by Taokaka, Noel, Platina, and Makoto, but at the same time I bet most of those people would like Hakumen, Hazama, Tager, Bang, Valk, and Ragna. I don't think BB's cast is weak, especially since you're sort of bound to like a few of the characters at least.

Now, when I listened to the podcast, I agreed about Makoto, but then was like "Wait...BB's cast is bad compared to what, exactly?"

Tekken's cast is largely pretty boring. I guess that prevents people from being turned off(though I still hear people bitch about the animals or Alisa) but I don't really consider "mostly boring" to be a strength.I think that Jin, Fury, and a few others are kind of cool, and Bob is hilarious, but otherwise the cast is unimpressive.

SF4's cast is pretty shitty. About a third like Vega, Dictator, Dudley, Hakan are awesome/hilarious/memorable, about a third are in the middle, and then a third are just fucking shitty. I like when SRKids were complaining about Umineko as some sort of pervert game because it had one bunnygirl with panty shots and a well-clothed maid with big tits, and then otherwise there were floor-length gowns and shit, when in SF you have:

Crimson Viper. Ugly, Capcom wishes they could design women in suits like SNK.

Cammy, who owns, but the ass fanservice is as obvious as Viper's tits fanservice.

Sakura, who is probably one of the worst character designs in fighting games. I mean, she's just a schoolgirl with panty shots. That's pretty much fucking it. She has extremely little to liberate her.

Juri, who has that strange transparent crotch area of her pants so you see her panties, and has sort of a BDSM vibe going on with some of her lines.

Abel is boring as fuck though his voice is pretty good, Sakura is terrible, Boxer is hilariously awful, if Guile didn't have his hilarious hair he'd be boring, boring shit, Honda is boring, Rufus should be Dan tier(I think rufus is the biggest example of "people only like him in a tongue in cheek kind of way"), T. Hawk is bad, and IMO Dhalsim and Blanka are just examples of trying way too hard.

Keep in mind I'm talking about non-gameplay designs. Abel, Dhalsim and El Fuerte are good gameplay wise.

KOF, I think, has the strongest character designs of any fighter. The "standard" characters are still awesome, and then characters like K', Nameless, Takuma, Iori, Geese, and Maxima are pretty popular because they're badass. There's a few characters that could potentially turn people off, like Momoko and Hinako, or Blue Mary's awful voice, or I suppose Ash if you're a worthless homophobe, but I still think the cast is incredibly strong.

But KOF is rather irrelevant to America so far so I doubt it was the game in mind being compared

MvC is obviously pretty strong by virtue of cast fanservice.

Melty Blood's cast is largely very boring. Oh boy, which 19 year old in a school outfit do I want to choose? That one has a knife. That one has a seifuku. That one has a sweater.

I think Guilty Gear is about the same level as BB to most people. It's a little less "typical anime," a bit more original and with a little more personality, but it also feels a lot weirder to people. A lot of people just go "wtf what a weird cast" at it. Plus, Testament is almost as bad as Sakura.

IMO, the main "animo" things that turns people away are:

-Constant voices

-Makoto/Noel/Taokaka

-Long combos

-To a lesser extent, Makoto/Mu/Litchi's chests make some people feel like they can't take the game seriously, but I honestly sort of doubt that matters that much considering Sakura, Viper, Cammy, etc.

I guess it just comes down to

average person: complain randomly about the character design *mains ryu/ken*

and while I'd like there to be more players for these sorts of games, while I'm not entirely happy with BB's roster, if the alternative means having rather boring character rosters like Tekken and SF, then fuck that.

Not sure why you guys are being so suddenly negative about the scene, though. We've been growing well since summer, BBCS's sales are still going decently, and it will only get better as more people notice MVC2, KOF, etc and as more people think "Hey, I like my first game, but I wanna try others now."

Also, honestly, complaining about the character design doesn't do anything to help us. We're not the developers.

I also think that trying to get non-fighters to play fighters is going to be rough until we get a fighting game that is actually good for newbies(not Babby's first tiny special cancel window fighter 4 or Babby's first 8 second combo: continuum shift or Babby's first 10 page movelist 6) because even if they like how anime it is, it's a long, difficult process to get them to think about the game more deeply.

The only exception to that is if they come from a game background which is competitive/thoughtful, like RTSes or Grand strategy games.

Lastly, I think everyone needs to realize: EVERY FIGHTING GAME SERIES HAS A TERRIBLE REPUTATION. ALL OF THEM. SF4, babby, 1f links, fireball wars, dp mashing, copy paste from sf2. BB, babby, too long combos, too anime, a bunch of guilty gear fans complain about it. Guilty gear, too weird, too hard, too anime, too elitist. KOF, messy, failure, Ash, unplayed. Melty blood, too anime, donjon, lolis(lol even though it only has Len and Miyako), grooveshurtmybabbyhead. Marvel, broken, too fast, broken, infinites and some people are turned off by the East coast's style.

Not that those accusations are fair, but that is what every scene has to deal with. Every scene has to deal with a very dirty reputation.

and real talk some fighters being anime as shit do turn me away from it...unless it's HNK and SBX anime like, then you got me joining in on some infinite shenanigans :DDD

What games would those be? Umineko? I mean, you play BB, GG, and apparently plan to play AH3, and you like Daemon Bride..not sure what else could be more anime than those games. I guess there's Eternal Fighter Zero or whatever it's called but I have no idea if that is even a legit game.

ask Ryan Harvey..., it's not like a lot of ppl play MBAA CC anyway..., you can ask him to get DM for like when you guys are here. just email him through arcUFO website

Yeah, I was just joking around. I'm going to email him in a few days about switching out DB for when we come up.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Mightfo

[jetblaksuit]

snip

My point about AH3 was that I don't like those characters in the same way I like SF characters. I mean, as far as AH3 characters go the enjoyment is the silliness of it all. All I ultimately care about is the game itself. Sure, the characters in SF may seem boring to you but, to me they are simple and classic. At the time there weren't other games to compare Blanka, or Dhalsim to. They were amazing in their day. Ryu is the Karate guy. He's Oyama. He's Sonny Chiba. He's Doppo Orochi and thats cool to me. When you go in describe the characters of BB in depth sure you get to the meat of what actually attracts the people who play BB to their respective characters my point was simply what you get on surface value. People at large don't play SF cause they look at it and think, "Oh this guy is cool." They play it because with SF4 Capcom came out and said, "Hey guys you remember Street Fighter right? Well its back, and now its 3D and has everyone you remember as a kid." Sure some people may pick it up because of one or 2 new characters that seem cool but by and large its a game that made its initial splash off off nostalgia alone. Newer fighting games obviously don't have that luxury. SF and Tekken characters come off as boring to you. Most of the people I know who aren't otakus find BB, GG and, AH characters to be completely over the top and will likely never touch the games.

I'm not really down about the local scene. I think its going pretty good right now.

[Mightfo]

My point about AH3 was that I don't like those characters in the same way I like SF characters. I mean, as far as AH3 characters go the enjoyment is the silliness of it all.

Yeah, that's fair.

All I ultimately care about is the game itself.

Agreed~

Sure, the characters in SF may seem boring to you but, to me they are simple and classic. At the time there weren't other games to compare Blanka, or Dhalsim to. They were amazing in their day. Ryu is the Karate guy. He's Oyama. He's Sonny Chiba. He's Doppo Orochi and thats cool to me.

Don't get me wrong, SF has some really good characters. And for the record, Ryu/Ken aren't shit tier to me when it comes to personality. Ken's ORA ORA ORA ORA DP Ultra alone helps him out a lot. He has some personality.

But a lot of the characters otherwise are just..Choose nationality, add on something weird. Guile, American, Hair. Deejay, Jamaican, Teeth. Boxer, Black American, lol.

And I dunno, aside from fantasy characters(Orc=more significant when LOTR came out than nowadays), I don't think the "back then they were good" thing applies to most of it, aside from Dhalsim/blanka, who I could see as ammo for, "Woah, what is this game?!"

I fucking love Vega(claw). And bison(dictator).

i wish sagat had a much different moveset though, he'd be a badass muay thai fighter if so.

When you go in describe the characters of BB in depth sure you get to the meat of what actually attracts the people who play BB to their respective characters my point was simply what you get on surface value. People at large don't play SF cause they look at it and think, "Oh this guy is cool." They play it because with SF4 Capcom came out and said, "Hey guys you remember Street Fighter right? Well its back, and now its 3D and has everyone you remember as a kid." Sure some people may pick it up because of one or 2 new characters that seem cool but by and large its a game that made its initial splash off off nostalgia alone.

I don't think I went in depth aside from Litchi. When people look at tao, the reaction isn't the same as a normal catgirl. She's like a monster-catgirl. Jin's initial look is better than him in depth, etc.

Yeah, and that nostalgia thing is part of what I'm saying: The character design of SF4 isn't actually superior despite what SRKids seem to think. I don't think BB's character design is really a weakness compared to SF4's, but SF4 has the nostalgia advantage.

Newer fighting games obviously don't have that luxury. SF and Tekken characters come off as boring to you. Most of the people I know who aren't otakus find BB, GG and, AH characters to be completely over the top and will likely never touch the games.

Yeah, I suppose, but I feel like people also who don't feel SF nostalgia look at SF and go "Uh, ok, random nationalities fighter 2k9."

IMO Tekken's largely alright designs are better than SF4's, since they're generally less "pick nationality, make it weirder." I can see a Tekken fan complaining about other games some, though Devil Jin is lolll and Tekken fans(like fans of virtually every fighting game) don't get a high ground with regards to fanservice.

plus sexy fanservice is actually ok as long as it fits like Juri and not makoto

[Mightfo]

also

fuck homophobes who complain about ash crimson

kof13 better have good online so i can spend all day reppin ash and getting hate messages

[jetblaksuit]

also fuck homophobes

Fixed that for you.

[Mightfo]

Fixed that for you.

ahhhh

good catch

[Mightfo]

double post hero

also a friend of mine made a good point though not entirely relevant to the perspective we're trying to look at:

jin's ragna voice set is awesome because how often do you get to hear someone completely lose their shit?

edit: also, personally i like the constant voices in bb, at least with jap voices turned on. whenever i listen to music with vocals, most of the time the vocals just end up as another instrument to me. i don't think about the words. similarly, awesome voices like ragna's "blend in" well with the music to me.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Mightfo

[jetblaksuit]

double post hero

also a friend of mine made a good point though not entirely relevant to the perspective we're trying to look at:

jin's ragna voice set is awesome because how often do you get to hear someone completely lose their shit?

edit: also, personally i like the constant voices in bb, at least with jap voices turned on. whenever i listen to music with vocals, most of the time the vocals just end up as another instrument to me. i don't think about the words. similarly, awesome voices like ragna's "blend in" well with the music to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP1-oquwoL8 As often as I want :P

I like the constant voices sort of. I wish Hazama didn't say dumb shit in english. Most everyone else I prefer they're english voices. Mainly because I don't speak Japanese so Japanese voices just become white noise to me. I have a friend I work with, who when I'm watching videos at work likes to ask me to, "Please turn down Japan." :P

[Mightfo]

i mostly prefer the jap voices, partially because i don't want to understand a lot of what they're saying

in CT i prefered jap ragna a lot because he was manlier and angrier but english ragna caught up in CS

jap hazama > english hazama

both mus are really good

jap litchi > english litchi, a bit

jap makoto > english makoto, a bit

not sure about jin

jap bang > english bang slightly

jap tager > english tager a bit

jap valk > english valk

haku in ct was awesome, both haku voices are eh now

jap tsubaki > english tsubaki

i suppose the lamdas, taos, and rachels are equal to me

unsure about arakune and carl

jap noel > english noel

EDIT: HOMEWORK TIME. LAST SERIOUS HOMEWORK OF THE SEMESTER

Edited December 3, 2010 by Mightfo

[zreb]

the "CALLING THE NAME OF MY ATTACK" can probably come off as extremely annoying. It makes little sense realistically, and people who play this game are either the types who can enjoy it or learn to ignore it. It can really screw a game up if it's not done well, really. Bad VA + goofy calling the names of attacks = whoops. people don't want to feel awkward when they're playing something, and the typical type of meatheads that we're discussing here won't even begin to touch something that strikes them as uncomfortable.

Fanservice is fucking shitty. I feel like there is a time and a place for things like that, but unfortunately my definition (and be extension to a much greater degree, western culture's) and Japanese culture's definition of what that time and place is are grossly varying. While I like to think human beings are better than this, you really can't blame them for their culture being different from ours. This has a lot to do with why people are turned off by this game, at least beyond "HURK DURK ITS ANIME!!!!!" Simply put, I don't think I would really want people who dismiss things solely because they look like they're in an anime style in the scene regardless.

As far as specific characters, I think pinning Carl in with the "tongue in cheek" remark is kind of blah. I genuinely like Carl and him being a boy didn't really provide a huge obstruction there. The shorts were weird at first, but now I feel like it would be strange the other way around. I also never identified Rachel as "GOTH LOLI-TAN," but apparently that's what other people see in her. I can't really say much there. Nu/Lambda are why I am even interested in this game or playing this genre at all right now. People being loud about "ASS" and "BODY SUIT!!!" piss me off. Taokaka doesn't come anywhere near what qualifies as a generic catgirl--people are fucking retarded. I could say shit about Litchi, but overall, I feel it is relatively tasteful (all things considered.) My reactions to both Platinum and Makoto were somewhere along the lines of "OH, GREAT." Platinum took me a while to accept because the style was so blatantly different from the rest of the BB roster, completely ignoring that she is intentionally moe as fuck. FOR THE MOST PART, Arcsys seems to handle them in a way that doesn't make you continue to reject them (that shot in that CS2 makes me strongly consider my kind words on Platinum, however.)

Mu is also borderline inexcusably gratuitous, and it strikes me that this almost went without mention. While I understand that something had to be done to make her different from Nu/Lambda, that is hardly an excuse for making her unabashedly naked. This is a shitty move on their end up there with Makoto, in my opinion, and was a small barrier to me even wanting to play her as a result. They could have done other things to make her unique from Nu/Lambda and still had the bodysuit. Instead, I am stuck dealing with a fucking deluge of "DAT ASS" references every time I look up Mu information, and that's fucking annoying.

For those of us who want to actually appreciate the characters and who they are, shit like this is a BIG obstruction to taking the game seriously. I assume it is intended to be taken seriously to some degree, given that they have a story mode that, for the most part, is a fairly commendable work as far as fighting games go.

blah blah blah why are we trying to convert people who aren't really worth converting to begin with? If people can't see past all the bullshit, then whatever; they can go post on SRK or something.

Edited December 4, 2010 by zreb

[Mightfo]

the "CALLING THE NAME OF MY ATTACK" can probably come off as extremely annoying. It makes little sense realistically, and people who play this game are either the types who can enjoy it or learn to ignore it. It can really screw a game up if it's not done well, really. Bad VA + goofy calling the names of attacks = whoops. people don't want to feel awkward when they're playing something, and the typical type of meatheads that we're discussing here won't even begin to touch something that strikes them as uncomfortable.

Yeah, I can definitely see that. However, SF4 has all of that as well, though they aren't quite as noisy as in BB, shotos are especially keen on calling out attack names.

and tbh pretty much every 2d fighter does this

BANDIT REVOLVER

POWA WAVE

TATSUMAKI SENPUUKYAKU

REPPUKKEN

SONIC BOOM

TIGER SOAP

Simply put, I don't think I would really want people who dismiss things solely because they look like they're in an anime style in the scene regardless.

fucking signed

As far as specific characters, I think pinning Carl in with the "tongue in cheek" remark is kind of blah. I genuinely like Carl and him being a boy didn't really provide a huge obstruction there. The shorts were weird at first, but now I feel like it would be strange the other way around. I also never identified Rachel as "GOTH LOLI-TAN," but apparently that's what other people see in her. I can't really say much there. Nu/Lambda are why I am even interested in this game or playing this genre at all right now. People being loud about "ASS" and "BODY SUIT!!!" piss me off. Taokaka doesn't come anywhere near what qualifies as a generic catgirl--people are fucking retarded. I could say shit about Litchi, but overall, I feel it is relatively tasteful (all things considered.) My reactions to both Platinum and Makoto were somewhere along the lines of "OH, GREAT." Platinum took me a while to accept because the style was so blatantly different from the rest of the BB roster, completely ignoring that she is intentionally moe as fuck. FOR THE MOST PART, Arcsys seems to handle them in a way that doesn't make you continue to reject them (that shot in that CS2 makes me strongly consider my kind words on Platinum, however.)

I pretty much agree, however, I don't really agree when people feel Platina doesn't really fit in BB. I mean, I feel like Bang/Taokaka/Hazama/Rachel/Valk sort of push the game into an ANY ANIMO GOES sort of thing.

Mu is also borderline inexcusably gratuitous, and it strikes me that this almost went without mention. While I understand that something had to be done to make her different from Nu/Lambda, that is hardly an excuse for making her unabashedly naked. This is a shitty move on their end up there with Makoto, in my opinion, and was a small barrier to me even wanting to play her as a result. They could have done other things to make her unique from Nu/Lambda and still had the bodysuit. Instead, I am stuck dealing with a fucking deluge of "DAT ASS" references every time I look up Mu information, and that's fucking annoying.

i sort of forgot to address mu's fanserviceness in my post

she's sorttt of close to makoto to me in terms of "too much" but at the same time i was not struck as hard by how much skin she shows off around the torso, i guess it's because she has all the leg/shoulder/arm/head armor along with the wings.

but yeah, she would have looked MUCH cooler if she had some of the robe-y stuff like in http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/106/1068285/blazblue-continuum-shift-20100210115844717.jpg + the armor. There's still reasonable fanservice there with the shoulders/belly there, too, so if they wanted to do at least some of that...

the amount of sexual references gets annoying, yeah :1

blah blah blah why are we trying to convert people who aren't really worth converting to begin with? If people can't see past all the bullshit, then whatever; they can go post on SRK or something.

lmao yes

At the same time though, I feel like there's a difference between a poor first impression and an overall failure to see past things one doesn't really care for. There's a lot of fighters (coming) out, so we want people to examine this one, because I doubt most people will look into everything significantly.

still, it is true that if they're not going to go "Ok, this doesn't appeal to me visually, but let's see some actual footage and see what I can gather from it gameplay-wise," I doubt they can bring themselves to think things like "Maybe I shouldn't mash A so much during pressure."

Fanservice is fucking shitty. I feel like there is a time and a place for things like that, but unfortunately my definition (and be extension to a much greater degree, western culture's) and Japanese culture's definition of what that time and place is are grossly varying. While I like to think human beings are better than this, you really can't blame them for their culture being different from ours. This has a lot to do with why people are turned off by this game, at least beyond "HURK DURK ITS ANIME!!!!!"

responding to this last because it brings me to interesting stuff

There's indeed a big cultural difference involved here. I mean, in Japan you have these fertility festivals where they carry these big penises in those movable shrine things and there's phallic souvenirs and stuff.

Part of this sort of difference can be seen when you compare, say, Japanese and European media to American media. In america, sexual stuff is a big no-no, but violent stuff is a lot more tolerated. In Japan/Europe, the reverse is usually true, which probably is part of what leads to things like Japan's abundance of fanservice in animo and Europe having nude women in ads or doing stupid shit like shopping out a dude's sword.

in a way, mortal kombat 9 is the american counterpart to arcana heart 3. instead of lolis and very suggestive poses or whatever, you have spine ripping and melting.

which begs the question: why the hell is it like this

i dunno

i guess with europe there's the whole "we've been through a lot of wars in the past 300 years" which could explain some of it. in japan, i dunno, the penis festival thing suggests something older. in america, i guess part of it may be the puritans, but i don't really see that as sufficient, especially since they were only a small part of the original colonies. i also don't buy america being more christian than europe/japan as really being the reason either, though maybe that's part of it.

[zreb]

platina

it was pretty much the art I saw of her that struck me as very different. super tiny limbs, giant gloves/boots is what came to mind. the style felt very different.

mu

I feel like they aren't capitalizing enough on how fucking cool the design for non-armor Nu/Lambda/Mu is. Also, the more I thought about it today, the more parallels there are with Mu's design and Noel's design, which was obviously intentional. Read: Weird magic blue cloth glued to her sides, shoulders showing on the non-armor design, etc. Small things, but still things regardless. meanwhile nu/lambda design looks nothing like noel

swordshop

wut

The different cultures thing makes the question a lot more interesting, but hard to create a real answer to, knowing absolutely nothing in terms of what it's like being Japanese vs. being American. At least it is clear to me that Arcsys knows who their audience is. The port is simply a result of there being demand by a niche audience in the US, whereas most people here (I guess? Apparently?) don't give two shits about the way it looks or anything about it stylistically.

Apparently long combos hurt their brains, too.

Edited December 4, 2010 by zreb

[cheebz]

Yeah, I can definitely see that. However, SF4 has all of that as well, though they aren't quite as noisy as in BB, shotos are especially keen on calling out attack names.

and tbh pretty much every 2d fighter does this

BANDIT REVOLVER

POWA WAVE

TATSUMAKI SENPUUKYAKU

REPPUKKEN

SONIC BOOM

actually if i'm not mistaken i think that has its roots in kendo / japanese martial arts, you call out your strike before / as you attempt it, just to increase the level of told your opponent receives when he is struck.

ronin confirm / deny ?

[cheebz]

the "CALLING THE NAME OF MY ATTACK" can probably come off as extremely annoying. It makes little sense realistically, and people who play this game are either the types who can enjoy it or learn to ignore it. It can really screw a game up if it's not done well, really. Bad VA + goofy calling the names of attacks = whoops. people don't want to feel awkward when they're playing something, and the typical type of meatheads that we're discussing here won't even begin to touch something that strikes them as uncomfortable.

Fanservice is fucking shitty. I feel like there is a time and a place for things like that, but unfortunately my definition (and be extension to a much greater degree, western culture's) and Japanese culture's definition of what that time and place is are grossly varying. While I like to think human beings are better than this, you really can't blame them for their culture being different from ours. This has a lot to do with why people are turned off by this game, at least beyond "HURK DURK ITS ANIME!!!!!" Simply put, I don't think I would really want people who dismiss things solely because they look like they're in an anime style in the scene regardless.

As far as specific characters, I think pinning Carl in with the "tongue in cheek" remark is kind of blah. I genuinely like Carl and him being a boy didn't really provide a huge obstruction there. The shorts were weird at first, but now I feel like it would be strange the other way around. I also never identified Rachel as "GOTH LOLI-TAN," but apparently that's what other people see in her. I can't really say much there. Nu/Lambda are why I am even interested in this game or playing this genre at all right now. People being loud about "ASS" and "BODY SUIT!!!" piss me off. Taokaka doesn't come anywhere near what qualifies as a generic catgirl--people are fucking retarded. I could say shit about Litchi, but overall, I feel it is relatively tasteful (all things considered.) My reactions to both Platinum and Makoto were somewhere along the lines of "OH, GREAT." Platinum took me a while to accept because the style was so blatantly different from the rest of the BB roster, completely ignoring that she is intentionally moe as fuck. FOR THE MOST PART, Arcsys seems to handle them in a way that doesn't make you continue to reject them (that shot in that CS2 makes me strongly consider my kind words on Platinum, however.)

Mu is also borderline inexcusably gratuitous, and it strikes me that this almost went without mention. While I understand that something had to be done to make her different from Nu/Lambda, that is hardly an excuse for making her unabashedly naked. This is a shitty move on their end up there with Makoto, in my opinion, and was a small barrier to me even wanting to play her as a result. They could have done other things to make her unique from Nu/Lambda and still had the bodysuit. Instead, I am stuck dealing with a fucking deluge of "DAT ASS" references every time I look up Mu information, and that's fucking annoying.

For those of us who want to actually appreciate the characters and who they are, shit like this is a BIG obstruction to taking the game seriously. I assume it is intended to be taken seriously to some degree, given that they have a story mode that, for the most part, is a fairly commendable work as far as fighting games go.

blah blah blah why are we trying to convert people who aren't really worth converting to begin with? If people can't see past all the bullshit, then whatever; they can go post on SRK or something.

[jetblaksuit]

actually if i'm not mistaken i think that has its roots in kendo / japanese martial arts, you call out your strike before / as you attempt it, just to increase the level of told your opponent receives when he is struck.

ronin confirm / deny ?

I lol'd

[Ronin Jinobi]

actually if i'm not mistaken i think that has its roots in kendo / japanese martial arts, you call out your strike before / as you attempt it, just to increase the level of told your opponent receives when he is struck.

ronin confirm / deny ?

Confrimed. Calling out your strikes is an important part of kendo, if you get shout out MEN!(head) and hit their kote(wrist) you're gonna look like a fucking retard and you won't get ippon. Hell calling out your strikes before you do them is also an important part of using all of your strength in an attack, it's almost like the difference between throwing a punch with just your arm and throwing a punch with your entire body working as one. essentially it brings your soul/energy (Ki), your sword/weapon of choice(Ken), and body(Tai), as one (Kikentai no ichi is a very critical part in the kendo philosophy). And getting a proper strike(Called that shit, hit that shit, and maintained Zanshin(basically the state of mind that goes "my oppponent is dead with this strike i've made")) is pretty fucking baller.

tl;dr: yes cheebz. yes it is./knowingafucktonaboutjapanesemartialarts

[Yuushiro]

so when are you guys coming here?

[jetblaksuit]

Omae wa mo shindeiru.

so when are you guys coming here?

Thats a good question. Someone with a car should field this one. Or we should talk about it at the meetup tomorrow.

[Ronin Jinobi]

I'll hit you up on dat facebook a week in advance bromandude.

..

yeah, I'm pretty thorough about explaining things like that >_>

[nubai]

I guess no h town tourney then ;(

[zreb]

Zanshin(basically the state of mind that goes "my oppponent is dead with this strike i've made")

isn't hakumen's drive also called zanshin

please elaborate you are making him sound even more anime than he already is

[jetblaksuit]

isn't hakumen's drive also called zanshin

please elaborate you are making him sound even more anime than he already is

From wiki

Zanshin (Japanese: 残心) is a term used in the Japanese martial arts. It refers to a state of awareness – of relaxed alertness. The literal translation of zanshin is "remaining mind".

In several martial arts, zanshin refers more narrowly to the body's posture after a technique is executed.

[edit]In various martial arts

In kyūdō, zanshin means the body posture after the loosing of an arrow; the posture is intended to reflect the higher meaning of zanshin, which is a mental aspect maintained before, during, and after an action.

In karate, zanshin is the state of total awareness. It means being aware of one's surroundings and enemies, while being prepared to react.

In the context of kendō, zanshin is the continued state of spirit, mental alertness and physical readiness to meet the situation (such as an opposing attack) that must be maintained when one returns to kamae after attacking. It is one of the essential elements that define a good attack.

During the practice of aikidō, the usual method of practicing zanshin is to focus on the just-thrown uke, or opponent, while holding kamae and maintaining awareness in case there are additional attacks or attackers. In Iwama Style training, zanshin is practiced as general awareness of one's surroundings, of which uke is just a small part.

"Zanshin means “the remaining mind” and also “the mind with no remainder.” This is the mind of complete action. It is the moment in kyudo (Zen archery) after releasing the arrow. This is “Om makurasai sowaka” in oryoki practice and drinking the rinse water. In shodo, it is finishing the brush stroke and the hand and brush moving smoothly off the paper. In taking a step, it is the weight rolling smoothly and the next step arising. In breathing in completely, it is this breath. In breathing out completely, it is this breath. In life, it is this life. Zanshin means complete follow through, leaving no trace. It means each thing, completely, as it is. When body, breath, speech and mind are broken from each other and scattered in concept and strategy, then no true action can reveal itself. There is only hesitation, or trying to push oneself past hesitation. This is the mind of hope and fear, which arises because one is trying to live in some other moment, instead of in the moment that arises now. One is comparing, planning, or trying to maintain an illusion of control in the midst of a reality which is completely beyond control"

[zreb]

ahhh interesting themes in the dfw thread

brb beatup

[Ronin Jinobi]

Zanshin

Basically all this in a nutshell I could write out the whole thing my sensei told me but this covers it. Hakumens drive being called this is just a reference to the fact that it catches and throws the opponent.

In kendo it's what decides whether or not your strike was a kill or not.

Also hakumen is anime as shit, he's the cliche badass samurai character...this does not bother me one bit :3

tl;dr: basically the same in all japanese martial arts, more stressed in competitive ones(non olympic competitive i mean.)

edit: I might have to add some tidibits in that wiki about kendo...hmm...

edit numero dos: Fuck it. if you guys want to know more about zanshin, kendo, kenjutsu, japanese martial arts in general get at me.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Ronin Jinobi

[Mr Oso]

Suo my ninja oso! Come to h town next month fo da tourney!

Lemme get a date and if i dont work ill do what i can

hey oso. real talk if i get some spare cash and you manage to find a reasonably priced TE i'll help you buy it.

Well as soon as i banked the money to get the deal it ended on the day of. . . . shit sucked . . . . but i am seeing a stick for like $113 which im prob gonna throw some money on l8er this week. Thanks for the offer and i might have to take you up on it >.>

Im at the meetup now but since i only play pad im kinda stuck on the laptop for the moment. . . . poo