LoneStar Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 easiest match up for mister tager? you decide and yes i know it might be a little early for this topic but right now it seems no matter the skill level makoto's gonna be at a bit of a disadvantage against iron tager maybe i am wrong maybe i am not but right now i just don't see much in her arsenal that gives tager much of a problem
Osuna Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 It's day 1 and she already does more damage than we do. That's more or less all we can know right now, and Just going of that the match up will suck.
ZhePrime Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 That's not really my impression. She's a fast rushdown character with a lot of tricks. Any predictability from Tager and she can parry and punish it, she also has a DP to help her get out of certain sticky situations. During her pressure she can cancel into Asteroid Vision to either confuse or avoid grab punishes Tager throws at her. Asteroid Vision is not like Noel's "assault through", since even if you predict it there's a risk you guess wrong in your punish (she can dash at 3 different heights with different followups, as well as blocking). Her damage potantial is a lot higher than Tager's as well, from what I can tell (fully charged Particle Flare in combos is nasty) and her DD Big Bang Smash can be used as a very effective punish due to the time-freeze (it literally stops time when you do it and pretty much activates 1-3 frames after the freeze). I'd say Makoto is mid-tier at lowest and Tager shouldn't really be that much trouble. But well, it's a bit early after all, just my initial impression.
MisterTurnabout Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Makoto seems like she could be kind of a tough matchup for Tager. She likes to squirrel away (no pun intended) and has an easy time dealing a decent amount of damage in a short amount of time. That being said, the Makoto players I have played so fair have been surprisingly easy to bait. she also has a DP to help her get out of certain sticky situations. This is the key, I think. If you can bait that DP (which is pretty easy to do with some weak pressure) you can punish it however you see fit. It's not any shocking revelation, but it's something to think about.
Lumination Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Just be aware, if she's too close to you, she will actually land behind you. I haven't tested, and it might have been due to lag, but sometimes when that happened, I couldn't pull out the CH 6A fast enough before she recovered. Also, I posted this in the GF Discussion, but I suppose it'll fit here too: you can GF an unmagnetized Makoto after 360A without any additional input.
FlyingVe Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 I haven't had alot of experience with this matchup yet, but wouldn't 2C punish al three versions of her command dash on reaction?
Ash of Arcadia Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 This will be a bad/not very even matchup. I just found a Tager only loop that actually does massive damage to him that starts from pretty much her basic B&B.... So that makes it even worse for him than everyone else because this loop, unlike the parry one, is easy as fuck... I may make her my secondary just to see what else she can do to my main(Tager).
Keo-bas Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 Though I'm not a tager player I'm still sad to see how this match up will turn out. Tager has a difficult concerpt as it is. Complicated match up must be even harder to manage. What are tagers option when being airborn to an ground opponent?
ZhePrime Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 What are tagers option when being airborn to an ground opponent? Barrier blocking, the rest is usually too unsafe.
Shine Posted August 4, 2010 Posted August 4, 2010 From what I can tell by playing shitty makoto players. - Don't attack in the air ever. Not only is his jump slooooooow, but all of his air attacks can easily be parried. Shit is free. - Alot of her moves have low profile as noels 3c. Beats 5a mash and leads to good damage and oki. - BBS super is godlike. Freezes time and punished pokes pretty effectively. - Whenever i did 2c on her air tele, it punished 100% of the time. Just my thoughts on playing 3 very bad makotos on xbl. Not making judgments till i actually play a good mak. Pretty much it.
Dragonslayer9 Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Those damn Jabs of hers go through ANYTHING
Astaroth136 Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 From what I can tell by playing shitty makoto players. - Don't attack in the air ever. Not only is his jump slooooooow, but all of his air attacks can easily be parried. Shit is free. - Alot of her moves have low profile as noels 3c. Beats 5a mash and leads to good damage and oki. - BBS super is godlike. Freezes time and punished pokes pretty effectively. - Whenever i did 2c on her air tele, it punished 100% of the time. Just my thoughts on playing 3 very bad makotos on xbl. Not making judgments till i actually play a good mak. Pretty much it. I played two bad ones and two decent ones, and pretty much, I agree with all of your points. However, with the air teleporting shenanigans, isn't there one where she cancels and charges a punch on the ground (I know nothing about her squirrel tactics)? That was the only time 2C failed for me. Also, it seems like once you have 50 heat, you can IB anywhere in her strings and 720. It just felt so much... easier to interrupt her with 720's.
Osuna Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Bigbangsmash punishes pokes pretty well, but you can buffer during it if you weren't poking. 720 and maybe sledge to beat it in that situation. It looks pretty projectile like to me, I only actually tested 720 though. Her uppercut by itself isn't much on damage but gives oki and will probably have RC combos soon. Her mix up game out side of bushin stuff is so far not very ambiguous looking or tough to block/throw. Also if she tries to get out of her block string by using a jumping bushin and she's magnetized, you can collider and she'll be pulled through the air at you facing the away from you. Her orb doesn't seem even a little safe in a block string (I've 360A'd it on reaction pretty easy and I've seen her get jabbed out of it) and I think it can't hit you if you hit her. Example I jumping B hit her with the orb in front of her and just fall right through it. I don't know if spark wins over level 3 orb punch. I traded the only time I remember trying. Hit box wise, I'm sure everyone noticed that she's really long on the ground and not very wide in the air. Parry is a pain and being near a corner means she can get 3 level 3s easy off practically anything for good damage, even if she didn't have the parry loop she does very good damage in the corner. I got stuffed by 5B a lot. Also I thought her 6A would be a pretty crappy anti air, but it reaches Really high and tager's air options aren't that great to begin with. Also even air to air she wins with Jump B and if she has another jump or a counterhit and the right height she gets a combo off it too. Seems to me tager wants to duke this one out on the ground.
Kaizer Blade101 Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Her 3C will go under 5D for a counterhit so watch out for that, 2D will counterhit her clean everytime though. Bolt beats her level 3 orb as well. 2C beats asteroid vision everytime unless they use the ground D version where she stops and punches you. If you are in the air I highly suggest barrier blocking or empty jumping into a grab, she has good air to air and air to ground. edit: You can also volt charge through her orb punch and still have enough time to 360 or 720 if she tries to 3C you out of it.
Lumination Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Big Bang Smash is considered a projectile. You can buffer 720 during the super flash, as mentioned above, as well as 360A it. However, if you choose to sledge through it, there is a very small sweet spot you have to stand in for the hit. If you're too close, her actual, physical hand will punch you for 800 damage and a wall bounce. If you're too far, you will either clash with her or just not reach her. You can also buffer 720 or 360A during her Particle Flare's super flash.
ZhePrime Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Big Bang Smash is considered a projectile. You can buffer 720 during the super flash, as mentioned above, as well as 360A it. However, if you choose to sledge through it, there is a very small sweet spot you have to stand in for the hit. If you're too close, her actual, physical hand will punch you for 800 damage and a wall bounce. If you're too far, you will either clash with her or just not reach her. You can also buffer 720 or 360A during her Particle Flare's super flash. People throw out BBS not as a punish and PF at random and not in a combo!?
Lumination Posted August 6, 2010 Posted August 6, 2010 Someone asked if BBS was a projectile or not. I was curious, so I tested. Afterward, it just seemed reasonable to see what could be done against something like wakeup PF.
Osuna Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 I just 720'd her uppercut. Not the recovery. The uppercut. I'm almost positive I hear the correct audio and saw the animation starting. It was off of gadget. Not at the earliest possible time I don't think, but I thought you all should know that it's at least possible.
NickExtreme1 Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 Someone asked if BBS was a projectile or not. I was curious, so I tested. Afterward, it just seemed reasonable to see what could be done against something like wakeup PF. Big Bang Shot (at least the blue fist of Makoto during BBS) counts as a projectile. Point-blank BBS adds extra damage (Makoto's real fist + her blue fist).
farranpoison Posted August 7, 2010 Posted August 7, 2010 If you ever see a Makoto jump at you, 2C. Always 2C. Makoto's air to ground pokes are shit, so a 2C will always hit her before she hits you.
Wrathos Posted August 8, 2010 Posted August 8, 2010 So I'm not sure it's been mentioned, but what exactly can I do against her block string other than well, block? I find it supremely frustrating that I just kind of have to sit there and watch her endless blockstring and hope for an IB 360 A or find a way to get 5a poke in or something. If there is a better way to approach this problem, I am all ears.
Osuna Posted August 8, 2010 Posted August 8, 2010 So I'm not sure it's been mentioned, but what exactly can I do against her block string other than well, block? I find it supremely frustrating that I just kind of have to sit there and watch her endless blockstring and hope for an IB 360 A or find a way to get 5a poke in or something. If there is a better way to approach this problem, I am all ears. She has a block string? What the heck is she doing? All the stuff I've seen either lead into bushins for her to escape or ended with her getting thrown/720'd. I don't recall any of her stuff being very safe, did someone discover a new normal that can be jump canceled on block or something?
ZhePrime Posted August 8, 2010 Posted August 8, 2010 She has a block string? What the heck is she doing? All the stuff I've seen either lead into bushins for her to escape or ended with her getting thrown/720'd. I don't recall any of her stuff being very safe, did someone discover a new normal that can be jump canceled on block or something? Her 5A is very good, almost as good as Bangs, her 2A is also good.
Tuna Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 Makoto's attack where she rolls on the ground and does a low hit(assuming its a 3c attack?) goes under a number of your standing normals. Drives me fucking nuts.
Osuna Posted August 9, 2010 Posted August 9, 2010 Her 5A is very good, almost as good as Bangs, her 2A is also good.A good poke does not an inescapable block string make. Seriously, as far as block strings go they all look really unsafe so far.
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