Jason D. Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 This thread is for discussing the Rachel vs Makoto match-up in BB:CS. Not to be mistaken for their match-up in CT.
currentlemon Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 I believe Rachel can zone Makoto pretty easily. Her projectile can't reach Rachel at full screen. (Someone has to test this out though, because I don't have Makoto).
Jason D. Posted August 5, 2010 Author Posted August 5, 2010 Okay, most obvious thing. Makoto's Blodia Punch distortion drive is a complete shut-down move for Rachel. It covers almost the entire screen and comes out incredibly fast. And it'll punch through a Lobelia, kill George, and then hit Rachel all at the same time. And while I've yet to test this, I'm pretty sure it would punch through an entire Tempest Dahlia also. Once she has 50% meter, any zoning or summoning is extremely dangerous. Otherwise, zoning does indeed work really well.
gli Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Yeah fought a couple and the key was to respect Makoto when she has meter. Otherwise go apeshit with zoning and bait those dps all day.
tofurr Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 Nothing super important, but if she's trying to put pressure on with j.2c, cat chair is a great reversal. Also, her j.2c clashes with Rachel's j.c.
GenoWhirl Posted August 5, 2010 Posted August 5, 2010 If you're in the corner, her DP takes her completely out of the corner
Flipboy189 Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 Block her BNB's. They're kind of tricky because you think she's going low and she actually hits high. Squirrel bitch. :D
GenoWhirl Posted August 25, 2010 Posted August 25, 2010 It's better to block 6B in reaction as she'll sometimes go into 2C instead for 5K
Istillduno Posted August 29, 2010 Posted August 29, 2010 Nothing super important, but if she's trying to put pressure on with j.2c, cat chair is a great reversal. Also, her j.2c clashes with Rachel's j.c. This could be a timing or spacing issue, but I've had cat chair clash with j.2c rather than beat it most times I've tried, I believe it's beat it once for me when it seemed to hit closer to Makoto's back rather than the tail itself but that was it.
MisterBadguy Posted August 29, 2010 Posted August 29, 2010 You guys know her j.2c clashes Inferno Divider right? :/ Shit's too good.
Jason D. Posted September 2, 2010 Author Posted September 2, 2010 Alright, now Makoto likes to come in pretty often using her 3C. It goes under a lot (A LOT) of stuff, and it's actually her advantage on block. However, this also makes people reckless with it, and if you think she's going to try this, just jump straight up. And if she does do it, j.2CD right onto her. Leads to good damage, and it feels sooooo good to see that smash down on her. And if you're wrong, and she doesn't do it? No big deal. You're just hanging out in the air. Feel free to block any time. And yes, I wouldn't recommend using your 2C to counter her j.2C either. It clashes way more often than not, and if it does that's free big damage for her. If you want to use it though, keep in mind that Makoto should be as low as possible for it to work. Basically, you gotta hit above the tail and connect with that squirrel part.
Varamathras Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 5B hits Makoto's 3C, if you want to go for a standard bnb. Considering that 3C has a long startup time, it's pretty easy to stuff it on the ground as well. Also, really hate her j.2C. So much.
AlwaysDizzy Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Ok, I'm trying to do the Limit Break 5.5k bnb on makoto but I'm having trouble landing BBL on her. Like I would get to the 5b 5cdc 236b but when I dash up for the 6a into BBL, The full body BBL wouldn't hit 100% unless I use 63214D6C to wind her back. I know that its easier to do it that way but I cant do another lvl 2 spike if I do. And beyond that point when I lvl 2 spike her into 214a its hard for me to time the 3c so that george activates so I can do 236a 6c jc j214c dash up BBL lvl 2 spike again.
Kiba Posted November 15, 2010 Posted November 15, 2010 Her projectile can't reach Rachel at full screen. (Someone has to test this out though, because I don't have Makoto). Thats only if you're not doing anything. It'll get you if you try 236bx for instance. Alright, now Makoto likes to come in pretty often using her 3C. It goes under a lot (A LOT) of stuff, and it's actually her advantage on block. However, this also makes people reckless with it, and if you think she's going to try this, just jump straight up. You could also use 2B and start you bnb combo there. Frog combos work on makoto mid screen, so if you go for the 236b it may miss.
Kuuhaku Posted December 8, 2010 Posted December 8, 2010 Oh, I guess one trick to Makoto is her projectile stays out longer than it is active so even if you see the orb, you can go right through it.
Alex073088 Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 (edited) Okay so i been playing against probabdly the best makotos on xbox live. That would be omniscythe, i think niniheart(something like that), and deshadowblade(whos gotten alot better). This match-up i swear to god is not 4.5 to 5.5 if any makoto is losing to simple zoning then they suck. makoto has many ways around zoning. And she has many great tools to prevent you from even set-up in the first place. She has some sort or flip attack(one normal proabdly j.b) that comes out super fast and can prevent you from doing aerial set-up. On counter you can eat about 4.5k to 5k espically if you are near the corner. She also has some ground normals(probabdly 6a ) that also a fantastic normal to keep you from aerial summon. And we all know about makotos distrotion drive super.(so glad it was nerfed in cs2) While on the ground, makotos three way clone special move allows her to clear significant amount of space to get in over, or even punish rod set-up. her ground roll will punish any lobelia firing within its range and give her great damage. Her 2a beats any all poke options you have outside of the overnerfed pumpkin. Her almost full screen projectiles comes out relatively fast compared to rachel's lobelia's. One huge issue im having is makoto user i listed above using her comet projectiles on my block and taking off tow libras...the move is not frame adavantage, but because of rachels poor range and slow start up speed makoto i find can do this to break your primers and put your life bar in the danger zone. If theres any secert as to how to prevent his please inform me, i am sick of people abusing that shit on rachel. I know if your really close you can hit her before the big coment part comes out, but if shes to far rachel cant prevent it with attacking. Edited December 25, 2010 by Alex073088
OmniSScythe Posted December 25, 2010 Posted December 25, 2010 Guilty :P Small range and low primers means free guard break, best way to deal with it at close range (2 primers instead of 1) is to hit them before it's active. Don't use cat chair against Cosmic cannon since if spaced right you'll be fatal by which is her best starter.
gli Posted December 27, 2010 Posted December 27, 2010 (edited) Basically give up guys. This match-up is impossible. You are allotted two mistakes before you die. Makoto is allowed like 10 mistakes against Rachel. Match-up is 15-0 Makoto favor. She has already won the next half of the next match because of how mindfucked you are. Seriously though, you have to be really careful about when you let up on defense. Most of the time you want to be blocking if you are unsure if it's safe to attack yet. Edited December 27, 2010 by glirandly
Alex073088 Posted May 1, 2011 Posted May 1, 2011 dude this match-up is pretty fucking stupid, for one rachel seriously can not zone anyway in this game forever unlike lamada. But makota has many many ways. Three obvious ways are A. simple run(lol she can prevent pumpkin summon easy) B. clone hoping over rods C. ground rolling then ending with a low thats frame advange/worst on hit for about 4k+ damage There is like nuthing you can do to prevent her from using comet projectile on your block and after a burst its even more stupid becausae the shit takes off two primers and she can be way too far out of rachels range to even give a fuck about getting punished for it. She gets a very high damage combo of-course on youg guard break. Her jumping b or c...is so fuckin fast it can prevent pumpkin summon on reaction for a nice counter hit that will deal a large amount due you falling all the way down to the ground allowing for a combo =). her normals are short ranged but they still seem to have more range then rachel's and more prority. blocker her can suck as well. I hope this bitch atleast gets a comet projectile nerf come bb3 shit is still gonna be fucked up in bbcs2.
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