[CS1] Makoto vs Noel

[Nini Heart]

yupp lol the invincibility stuff has happened to me,I was just going through them

i guess our best bet really is just to be patient and wait out,as for Noels turn to your other side trick on her drive string,I guess you can jump away to over her,but Im still wondering if we can punish that easier

3C punishes Assault Through(D.214D) for big damage, if that's what you were talking about.

On another note, this matchup is ass. J.2C beats pretty much all her drives and clashes with 4D midscreen. In the corner it beats EVERYTHING Noel has, so you can abuse it to start your corner combos safely.

Other than that, 4D pretty much beats everything you try to throw out except for grabs, 2D beats grabs/lows and crosses you up when you blocking low, and reaction 5D beats all your moves except for J.2C.

Her drive is really safe and hard to punish too. She can 4D or D.214D through comet cannon to avoid being punished from full screen. BBS hits though.

[milesw]

Anything that isn't 5A > 5B > 5C > 2C has a gap in it, having a DP kills Noel's pressure, but to be honest, having normals that aren't terrible kills Noel's pressure.

Nini Heart, my advice for you, for one, don't jump so much, my main source of damage was from yomi'ing your jumps with an IAD grab, you also tended to try and mash when in pressure, which allowed me to 2D whenever I ended a blockstring, which gave me a combo. Fighting Noel is really easy, you have to be patient, Noel is only strong when on the defensive, because her drives are her only real way to escape pressure, she can nail overly aggressive players because we learn your habbits and adapt to them, and exploit them with Drive, similar to a good DP character like Ragna, except her drives don't offer the true invuln that a real DP has, but to compensate they give off alot more damage, so pressure Noel the same way you would pressure Ragna.

If you guys want to know the secret to beating Noel's drives, here it is: They aren't DPs.

If you are pressuring a Noel she has 3 options, 4D, 5D, and 2D

4D only gives mid-to-upper body invuln, so any low attack rapes it, and its invuln isn't even that good, your best friend here is 2A, it kills Noel's 4D.

5D only has invuln from 5 frames after its startup, so if you think Noel is gonna 5D out of pressure, use a frame trap, anything that has a 1-2 frame hole will beat out 5D, and as long as the move isn't low it will beat out 2D as well.

2D has low invuln from frame 1, but isn't airborne until frame 5, so tick throws will never work if Noel is spamming 2D, the best way to beat out this move during pressure is to throw out an anti-air in pressure strings, 6A will work fine, the best way to do this would be to 2A > 2A > 2B > 6A, because nothing makes us want to 2D more than seeing a bunch of low moves.

When getting pressured by Noel, she is in danger, because Noel only relies on gimmicks and drive, so she will poke you for a bit, but eventually she is going to drive, in the hopes that you threw out something to try and beat her pressure, here's some general tips:

Block low, and react to 6B, its really slow, and really easy to spot.

3C is punishable on block, but has no hitstop, so you need to react a little quicker to get the most damage out of your punish.

During drive strings, she is in great danger, if she keeps going you can punish with anything because most of her drive moves lose invuln during her follow ups, DP will always win, but may clash with 4D, or even lose to 4D, but your DP will put you in the air, so we can't combo you very well after an awkward 4D hit. As a rule, once you see 2D, and block it, feel free to mash 2A, if done right you will beat us out of anything, and if you expect an assault through, a late 2A will beat that out as well. Assault Through is punishable on block, so you can 5B > combo after blocking it, Spring Raid is terrible on block, you can easily 5C punish it, Bloom Trigger is also punishable, but it has massive pushback, if you can IB the last hit, you should have enough time to dash in and 2A for a punish.

I'd be willing to answer any other questions regarding Noel you may have, so feel free to ask.

Taken from the critique thread

[Exciel]

This is the first match up in CS2 where I've run into trouble. Namely Noel's 2D and 4D, I know they aren't perfect moves but they are some very irritating hurdles for Makoto to deal with in this match. Tips/how are you guys fairing in this match up?

[Eshi]

This is the first match up in CS2 where I've run into trouble. Namely Noel's 2D and 4D, I know they aren't perfect moves but they are some very irritating hurdles for Makoto to deal with in this match. Tips/how are you guys fairing in this match up?

If you think she's going to try to auto pilot 2D out of your block strings, you can do two things by leaving intentional holes. the first is to throw out a 6A to sock her in the face, very rewarding but unsafe if it whiffed from being too far. You can also hold down back and press 2A once only. If she 2D's, you'll instant block it and can punish pretty much everything with another 2A. Otherwise, reset your pressure.

The main learning curve for every newish player is to adapt to her 2D. Especially now that it does an easy 4k damage raw when it hits, Noels want to scrub it with it more than ever. Otherwise, Noel has decent normals and mix-up but Makoto's are better.