[CS1-CSE] Road to Ikaruga - The Bang Social thread - Do you even 3c?

[KayEff]

most common, primarily because the most common tend to be the most useful

[huey253]

What do you think? Tell a new player every tool, or just the most common?

you only mentioned 3C and tk 623B for pokes...

zeth mentioned 5A 5B jA jB dnails....

i don't get what side you are on

[Dacidbro]

Well to be fair, you can't hurt someone for actually telling you why not to do something if they have a reason why. Nothing subs for experience, but it's still trying to be helpful.

On another note, I admit I'm super skeptical about 6c anti-air. You got vids of that Dacid?

6C AA is decently rare even for me, but when I do use it it's in the corner. I don't have any vid on hand off the top of my head. I usually use it against characters that have bad reward as they're falling or rising, if I know the player likes to chicken block.

Huey, if Zeth already covered those tools, what am I doing by repeating them? Nothing. Those tools are what everyone will always tell you. It's so easy to find that those are good tools. What about the moves no one ever talks about?

[Lord Knight]

For a completely new player, I feel like getting the basics across is really important. The truth is, in my personal experience, even things that can be considered "obvious" aren't even understood. Of course it's important for a player to understand every tool, but even the way you're describing it is not enough... but then, it's too much.

The truth is, fighting games are really easy to start learning. I can tell a new player basic advice that they can understand easily - the problem with giving advanced advice or input about the game is that there is nuance about the situation relating to the tactic/move/etc. When explaining a basic, well-accepted use for a move/tactic/etc, it is very easy and obvious why it works - when explaining something advanced, the way it is explained will be biased based on the view of the player giving it (as in, their personal interpretation on fighting games). Since the one receiving the advice is not at a high enough level to really process this, it is wasted.

Look, even among you guys, you all have had slightly different interpretations of certain terms. I'd say it's better to build the house from the ground up.

[Dacidbro]

Eh, that's good advice, LK.

I stand by everything I've said, though, even that it is important to tell it to beginners. I can understand why people don't, but I know it would just frustrate me if I asked for help and an abridged version was given. I would think people don't expect me to take the advice seriously enough to research why it is effective.

Dai, checked through grand finals against DSMoove at NWM, used it once at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4gXff7AaI#t=3m50s to beat airdash or jD, and lose for very low damage to jA jB or jC, or whiff for low punish, since he super jumped

Editted to fix time sig, was taking to the start before, now takes directly to the 6C

Edited December 6, 2011 by Dacidbro

[Linear04]

i would tell beginners to use stuff like that sparingly, because if you dont even have a grasp at basic tools, just throwing out situation stuff will only punish the beginner's game some more

those tools are useful i agree, but if you dont know how to use them properly you will get blown up hard lol. for someone like star who is having a hard time just starting this character in cs2, i would just tell him to stick with the old stuff until he gets better. i dont see how someone who is having hard time hitconfirming basic strings would be able to properly use and fully hitconfirm a special combo with 6c ch, tk double palm fc, or 3c fc starter.

imo its better to tell a player what he already knows or heard just so it gets drilled down that much, so that they start implementing it into their game, but also mentioning the kind of stuff dacid mentioned so that they start seeing when they can use it right while theyre learning the character

[YukiBlue]

What aspect of Bangs gameplay should I prioritize? Blockstrings, Pressure, Traps, BNB's ect.

Which is the most essential to Bang as a whole, what should I learn in order to take Bang beyond Netplay?

*To clarify. I'm familiar with him. I just want to level up a lot more*

[Star-Demon]

Wow. What happened when I was out? Now LK is in here? LK should be working on that litchi flowchart. so we can settle the problem in Litchi General.

Dai, checked through grand finals against DSMoove at NWM, used it once at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD4gXff7AaI#t=3m50s to beat airdash or jD, and lose for very low damage to jA jB or jC, or whiff for low punish, since he super jumped

Robbed by Fenrir.

I will admit that I do well by watching combined with helpful commentary. I don't usually watch enough because I'd rather play.

After last night vs Demboss, I feel rushy and scrubbish on Bang - like I don't know what my game plan really is other than in and out using nails and double airdash, jumpin, and try do do long combos.

I still don't understand why 6C never hits after hitting 5 and 2B when they are standing. Do they crouch mid combo? can't be only on block...I hit them while they were standing.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Star-Demon

[the_difinitive]

what'd be really interesting is if somebody like dacid or huey would take one of their GF matches and dub over it with explanations of what they're doing and why.

[huey253]

what'd be really interesting is if somebody like dacid or huey would take one of their GF matches and dub over it with explanations of what they're doing and why.

i can do this I guess... I'll try to do this weekend.

[Star-Demon]

what'd be really interesting is if somebody like dacid or huey would take one of their GF matches and dub over it with explanations of what they're doing and why.

I would love that. Good commentary, even if it's heelish like spiritjuice's or mine, can be very informative if done right.

[Tari]

I still don't understand why 6C never hits after hitting 5 and 2B when they are standing. Do they crouch mid combo? can't be only on block...I hit them while they were standing.

If your 6C is whiffing after you hitconfirm 5B > 2B on a standing opponent, then... you might not be hitting a standing opponent? That, or you're chaining into 6C at the very last moment, which makes the combo drop. The latter is actually sort of hard to do on purpose, though, because you have a huge window to hit 6C.

[Star-Demon]

Okay, maybe it's just me thinking they are standing. Any alternatives after confirming 5B 2B?

[huey253]

Okay, maybe it's just me thinking they are standing. Any alternatives after confirming 5B 2B?

2C

Tari, can I do the recording with your computer and headset on thursday?

[the_difinitive]

on crouch you can confirm 5B 2B into 5D->supercrash/daifunka

on standing or crouching you can confirm 5B 2B into 2C-> supercrash/place nail but that really reduces the damage you'd be getting off a standing opponent unless you're in the corner.

i don't know if there are any more optimal midscreens if you don't know if your opponent is crouching or not =\

[Star-Demon]

on crouch you can confirm 5B 2B into 5D->supercrash/daifunka

on standing or crouching you can confirm 5B 2B into 2C-> supercrash/place nail but that really reduces the damage you'd be getting off a standing opponent unless you're in the corner.

i don't know if there are any more optimal midscreens if you don't know if your opponent is crouching or not =\

Cool, I've hit 2C afterwards before but I always thought it was a fluke. Good to know it's legit. I'll try the other ones tonight.

[Tari]

2C

Tari, can I do the recording with your computer and headset on thursday?

Yeah, as long as I'm not actively streaming PNW WCG, lol.

[Linear04]

ummm... if you dont even know basic gatlings how are you trying to get better by heading straight to netplay?

if you are seriously trying to improve, either reading basic combos for your character or even messing around with gatlings for 5 mins in training mode will do you more good than losing 30 times straight....

[Tsu_na]

Wut is a cherlenge moodo and hoe I lern 2 combo?

[Star-Demon]

ummm... if you dont even know basic gatlings how are you trying to get better by heading straight to netplay?

DETERMINATION AND GUTS! I'm also a Saiyan.

if you are seriously trying to improve, either reading basic combos for your character or even messing around with gatlings for 5 mins in training mode will do you more good than losing 30 times straight....

I've actually looked at the frame data several times but I don't remember any of it. I'd rather play and experience it than memorize tables.

[Dacidbro]

Learning startup, static difference (and understanding static difference), and what chains to what are all absolutely vital.

Star, make sure you read what I posted in your stream's chat. You have a looooong road ahead of you.

[Linear04]

DETERMINATION AND GUTS! I'm also a Saiyan.

I've actually looked at the frame data several times but I don't remember any of it. I'd rather play and experience it than memorize tables.

where do i say you need to memorize tables? im just saying if youre any serious about getting better as a player, you would do much better knowing the most basic of the basic things about your character, rather than screwing around online until it hits you. you dont have the right to complain about people not wanting to help you out if youre not going to put any effort in

[Star-Demon]

Learning startup, static difference (and understanding static difference), and what chains to what are all absolutely vital.

Star, make sure you read what I posted in your stream's chat. You have a looooong road ahead of you.

Hey - You guys know that my channel plays old recordings on autopilot when I'm not live, right?

I'm sorry if any of you've been talking to me thinking I was live. When I'm live, you'll see the icon light up and definitely hear me respond quickly in cast, usually within a match.

Anyways, Thanks Dacid. I know I have a long way to go. I hope between playing and some coaching from you guys I'll become a worthy Bang, even if just King of Casuals.

Edit: This is for you

Edited December 10, 2011 by Star-Demon

[Dacidbro]

No, I did not know that. You should turn that function off. Lol.

That homo-genius is godlike

[Star-Demon]

No, I did not know that. You should turn that function off. Lol.

That homo-genius is godlike

Yeah - I'm going to have to turn off autopilot - since it's just causing so much confusion.

Setting up Twitch channel - I'm getting audio syncing problems, It's still early morning though.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Star-Demon