Toronto BB and GG: FIENDS ONLY Part II

[kellfire]

I'm back but I can't come on friday. Maybe and hopefully next week.

Do you guys hold any home casuals? I know it's a crazy idea but it can increase potential interest.

Kellfire: I'm look at you for Casuals when you are able.

NeoRussell

I might some casuals next Wednesday, Russell. Or i'm thinking about it at least.

[Zeero]

GG has been nobified ever since AC came out, i don't know why everybody is so unhappy about this announcement.

I actually disagree with the statement about BB combos and GG combos from asdf lol.

BB combo system has a lot to react to, what you started off, the type of counter hit, etc... If i start a combo with A, i end my combos short, if i start it with FC, i do a special FC combo.

whereas GG is always the same combo, land BBU, do the same combo. Land random hit, go into BBU, do the same combo. I play robo ky, land anything -> 2S 2D. land anything that bounces -> air combo. May, land jHS, dolphin loop, land 2D, dolphin loop, land OHK, dolphin loop.

I think why you have that feeling is coz you play ragna, who doesnt need to react to anything because his combos actually work regardless of what you start off with lol.

But GG's system definitely gives more freedom and variety to the player. But its because this freedom that nobody knows how to play the game because they can't figure out what is right or what is wrong.

[K2]

WTF is arc sys thinking

aren't ggac noob frdly enough? this game is so fucking easy to start off. bnb are so easy when u actually do TRAINING mode.

and god, ppl starting ssf4 complain how hard is to learn 5mp>focus cancel dash>throw

but thats the trend, ppl gets lazy and fat and die

and i don't agree with then the game becomes easy u get to win the noob easier.

that mean they just autopoliet and there are only so many for the good player to react , but in the mean while u feel that intense pressure cuz u can't do shit because ur character fucking limits on wt u can do , or u can't do anything at all

like taokaka and bang

only they make that dumb drive cancel to be punlishable, she is going down

once bang doesn't have godly normals, he is going down

[Asdferty]

True, I do play ragna who is the easiest lol mode character ever. The combo filler seems to always be the same in BB though, whereas GG combo filler seems to differ from player to player. There is a lot more in terms of weight and hitboxes in GG, you can tell when a player knows more about matchups than in BB. As a side note, don't take anything I believe on GG to be true, cause I am awful at the game.

I'm not saying I do the same combo, I'm saying from a 5b there is a combo I have in mind, there isn't as much improvisation in combos to get a certain knockdown versus a character's specific bio. Not really any originality in BB, cause there aren't as many options, especially with FRC fakeouts on a lot of mixups in GG. I'm still bad lol it's just what I see when watching japanese play.

I'll be there to show how awful I am at GG tonight anyways :3 watch me miss that gunflame FRC and throw grandvipers from fullscreen!

[DioBrando]

Its alright, just say you're trolling everytime you throw a grand viper.

I give up on trying to be Kusoru...

[Zeero]

you can tell when a player knows better matchups in GG because BB is nowhere near as matchup intensive as GG lol.

When you have a tech system like BB, then the originality of the character that GG has (one of which i think is a different oki/pressure game/type from every character) isnt shown as much since people can get out easily.

GG's combo filler differs from people to people (im assuming u mean players) because GG's good combos all do relatively the same damage. Slayer can do anything he wants and it'll be the same 50% damage. There are better combos, but because knockdown is so important in GG due to forced oki you usually choose the KD combo... not to mention the hard combos are really unstable and hard to do...

Whereas if you want good damage in BB, its only that combo most of the time.

its a different view, BB you react and change your combo based on how it starts off.

GG, you do your combo so the end result is the same.

regardless, i think they're both good games. I play BB now because im too old for GG and don't want to think when i play and just press buttons and win. I can't do that on GG because i play mid tier. Actually the problem really is that every one else plays top tier, the top tiers that I think its stupid. ie, Potemkin, Slayer, May, Testament. Those 4 I have big problems with because they're so fucking auto pilot. Eddie, Jam are stupid top tiers but they require some effort.

Fuck you jabir, don't MSN me about this coz i know ur lurking my post lol.

[Leo7]

The combo filler seems to always be the same in BB though, whereas GG combo filler seems to differ from player to player. There is a lot more in terms of weight and hitboxes in GG, you can tell when a player knows more about matchups than in BB.

with regards to the differing hitboxes and falling speeds ... only a portion of the cast heavily relies on character specific combos; there are characters that can get by with universal combos (ahem, potemkin). aside from that, adjusting to hitboxes and weights just comes with experience. eventually you get a feel for the spacing and if you're in control of your character, you can sort of make combos on the fly.

but yes, "experience" is what it comes down to, cause one of the hardest thing about accent core has always been match-up experience.

and honestly, execution wise, accent core really isn't hard aside from a few characters (e.g. i-no). there are other fighting games that are more execution intensive than accent core. at most it requires a small amount of time in training mode as your initial investment. every character does have "hard" combos (even potemkin), but they're generally not necessary to win.

[Linear04]

i dont know much about gg, but it feels like it takes WAY more knowledge of the game than bb would, in terms of matchup AND combos

mainly because gg's combos are "dynamic" and bb's are "static" to me in the sense that all the characters have different fall speeds, defense rating and proration values depending on what they were doing before the combo

but i dont know shit about both games so lol

[Roldy]

I guess my view on GG and BB are somewhat distorted, since I play a very hard character in GG (Venom) and a pretty easy character in BB (Jin, despite the fact some of his advanced knockdown combos are quite character specific). Well, most characters in BB are easy, lol. Carl is probably the hardest to play.

So, to me at least, GG is a lot harder than BB simply because there is a lot more emphasis on knockdown and mixup. Plus, execution in GG is harder than BB, especially with the easy gatlings / links due to the 5 frame buffer for BB. Lastly, GG has a faster pace than BB, making it harder to react and make decisions during a match.

[archling]

sc2 is more fun

[Milln]

Argh, sorry I missed you guys. I was about to head up at 6 o'clock, when this monster migraine hit me and I was forced to lay down. Even now, it's still kind of there and I apologize for not making it. I am still going to be at the Playdium nearly all day (not sure what time i'm getting there. 3pm or later is guaranteed) October 6th and if any of you are available, I'd love to hang out then.

[X-Sapphire]

Wtf... some of this shit I'm reading is retarded.

GG has been nobified ever since AC came out, i don't know why everybody is so unhappy about this announcement.

Yes let's call the game noobified just because people can't block random force breaks. Good logic. AC has more options than any other GG, more options = more diversity = more freedom = greater depth. Certainly greater depth = noobified. I'm no scientologist but I'll have to go with Pui on this one... :roll:

I actually disagree with the statement about BB combos and GG combos from asdf lol.

BB combo system has a lot to react to, what you started off, the type of counter hit, etc... If i start a combo with A, i end my combos short, if i start it with FC, i do a special FC combo.

whereas GG is always the same combo, land BBU, do the same combo. Land random hit, go into BBU, do the same combo. I play robo ky, land anything -> 2S 2D. land anything that bounces -> air combo. May, land jHS, dolphin loop, land 2D, dolphin loop, land OHK, dolphin loop.

Wow seriously? Like BB has any more combo diversity than GG? You're kidding me. You're being awfully biased here.

And wtf? I don't know why you're targeting this specifically towards BB. This is a general concept IN ALL FIGHTING GAMES, yes even SF4. Depending on what you start the combo with, you are able to do different combos. I could give examples but this is pretty easy to see that it is a general concept in all fighting games, not just BB.

In fact in BB it's usually just a limited version of the same combo if you start with a weaker/nonFC hit. Whereas in GG, sometimes you have to switch up your combo entirely.

its a different view, BB you react and change your combo based on how it starts off. GG, you do your combo so the end result is the same.

Last time I checked, your combos are different in GG depending on what you start with, and the end result of your combos in BB are the same too. There is no difference of view.

I think why you have that feeling is coz you play ragna, who doesnt need to react to anything because his combos actually work regardless of what you start off with lol.

If you start the combo with A, you will get bluebeat on your second berial edge loop. Contrary to popular belief, Ragna has combo limits too.

This reminds me, I like how everyone bashes ragna combos when over half the cast in BB has the same fucking combo too. Especially that scrubby Wu always saying if I ever get bored of doing the same combo with Ragna when fucking Noel is the same combo into super too, pretty similar to Ragna's combo into super. Just because you're mashing D more in your combo doesn't make it any more complex. But just because his character isn't top tier he has to cry about it to feel good.

i dont know much about gg, but it feels like it takes WAY more knowledge of the game than bb would, in terms of matchup AND combos

We have a winner.

I just don't want the new game to be easy to learn. In BB i played 3 different characters, both low tier and top tier, for 1 month each and came 1st place, 2nd place, 4th place. In GG I had to play the same character for much longer before I started placing high, regardless of whether I was using low/top tier. Regardless of tiers, GG takes more effort to win and that's why I enjoy it more, and that's what I don't want taken away from the next game. I don't want to watch a few vids, play the character for a few weeks, then place top 3 in the tourney. I want to be able to put in much more effort to master the character, or I just get fucking bored and go back to clubbing lol. BB is just waaaay too fucking easy. FRC alone gives GG more depth, then there's slashbacks, 1-frame jump, jump installs, universal overhead (d), and a bunch of other game mechs that just makes it so much more diverse, deep, and fun.

The adrenaline that I get going all out against Jabir in GG, I have yet to feel half of that while playing anyone in BB. It's just too simple and flowchart for my taste.

[XDest]

only they make that dumb drive cancel to be punlishable, she is going down

B and A cancels were unsafe on block in CT, and Taokaka players did fine. Then again, she was mid in that game.

But yeah, the player has to think a lot more about what they're doing when those cancels are unsafe, I hope they change it back (well the loketest did, right?).

[DioBrando]

GG and BB are really two different games, but comparing the two, GG is a lot more harder game with a lot more emphasis on knowledge and skill. Yes GG has been "noobified" but not entirely as well. The execution has gotten more lenient compared to the old games, and some of the characters got more simpler but that doesn't change the fact its still a hard game. I am just going to state things that aren't already said or probably emphasize on other things.

GG is a much more offensive oriented game whereas BB is much more defensive. Every hit counts in GG as they can lead to that big damage you need to win and that knockdown is a must. With that knockdown, you need the proper oki for that pressure or combo into more damage. In BB, being on the defensive can be so much more better, just IB into counter, combo or something most of the time. The mix-up in BB are much easier to recognize and see coming compared to GG due to the number of options and speed difference of the game. Sure you can IB in GG but its no where as good as BB and yeah you do get a burst, but it does have its cost.

The two burst mechanics in both games are different, but I have to side with BB in having a more complicated burst system. Whiffing or being baited to burst in the air is much more painful compared to GG. You can end up losing the entire because you messed up a single burst in BB, since its basically a free reset. Bursts can easier in BB since they come out faster, and have better mechanics compared to GG. In GG, the cost of whiffing or messing up can lead to relatively small damage and longer burst recovery. The number of bursts are different in the two games too. BB, you have to be much more reserve with your burst while in GG you can go gungho crazy at the sight of big damage or potential threat. Hell, in GG you can burst 2 times in one round depending on the match. lol, throw breaks, not going to touch that.

GG's emphasis on knowledge is more required than BB. Although I do play a top tier character, I can still lose to many people because I lack the match-up knowledge. By knowing what to do, you can abuse and win your fights. Like compare Potemkin to Slayer, Potemkin should kill Slayer most of the time, jsut because you know what to do. If that Potemkin player doesn't know what to punish, he'll just end up losing when he should be outright winning. The same goes for Zappa against Johnny and many other match-ups. Its true BB has match-up knowledge as well, but its isn't as vast and diverse sometime. Sometime, its just good to know IB > counter and you'll be good most of the time. There are some you have to know but not as much. The counter argument can be the cast size, but if you were to randomly pick 14 matchups from GG and compare against BB, its still a big difference.

On the discussion on combos, GG has a lot of emphasis on spacing and timing (for FRC, links and other stuff). Spacing is key for some characters like Sol's sidewinder loop, Ky's combos and Chipp. Spacing does get involved in BB but that's only for 3 characters, Litchi, Carl and Lambda. Even then, recognition of distance varies from mid screen, close to corner and corner. Execution can get crazy for the game, with all these links, timing, character weight, hitbox and starting hit to the point where many combos can get character specific. BB, its usually starting hit and length of combo due to proration that determines what combo you do.

[Roldy]

GGs tonight, everyone! Sorry Martine, my parents were waiting outside so I didn't want to keep them waiting.

And yeah, I agree with Dio. GG is all about oki and matchups. BB is...IB Hotenjin / 720.

[magus704]

GGs tonight guys. It was nice to be able to come out for once on a Friday night. Hopefully I can make it next week.

[Leo7]

does playdium even have a bb cab?

anyways i can see the next few pages are going to be full of gg and bb comparison talk. lord knows that while i'd enjoy writing a long ass post about gg vs bb, i'll refrain cuz i'd just be stating the fucking obvious. cause it's pretty fucking obvious to everyone that gg is the harder game.

i just don't want guilty gear to be turned into fucking street fighter 4. that's all.

ok, but ggs to everyone today. smaller turnout, but definitely had a lot of fun.

edit: i'm sorry my anji is so boring tim, backdash more with pot then and i'll make it less boring 0_o

edit2: my ability to mash out 6k > frc > 214p is not gay, it's fucking gdlk.

[Milln]

does playdium even have a bb cab?

I don't know. But it's Playdium. It should, right? Either way, it's still fun.

[Akuun]

GGs yesterday. What do I do against Hazama? His snakes make him really mobile, so it almost feels a bit like fighting Tao in that I can't really zone him. He can get in so quickly that using swords feels risky.

As for the conversation, I freely admit I don't play GG because I'm having enough trouble learning BB. One step at a time.

[Leo7]

I don't know. But it's Playdium. It should, right? Either way, it's still fun.

na, sorry to say, but i highly doubt it. have fun though. if you do feel like dropping by gety, be sure to post it here as well!

[poiyo]

GGs tonight, everyone! Sorry Martine, my parents were waiting outside so I didn't want to keep them waiting.

Ya, np, surprised you heard whatever I was yelling lol.

GGs everyone!

[unsanctifier]

Well, I don't really care for people's opinion on BB Vs. GG, but I don't like y'all hating on Slayer. He's a cool cool guy, that's why I play him. I can relate to him!

[Zeero]

Regardless of tiers, GG takes more effort to win and that's why I enjoy it more, and that's what I don't want taken away from the next game. I don't want to watch a few vids, play the character for a few weeks, then place top 3 in the tourney. I want to be able to put in much more effort to master the character, or I just get fucking bored and go back to clubbing lol. BB is just waaaay too fucking easy. FRC alone gives GG more depth, then there's slashbacks, 1-frame jump, jump installs, universal overhead (d), and a bunch of other game mechs that just makes it so much more diverse, deep, and fun.

its true, GG takes more effort to win, if you fucking play low tiers. Someone tell him how K2 raped last night by trolling people with jHS, 6P, and IK. I completely agree with you on playing harder games and feeling better about it, but I cannot stand the bullshit characters as I've mentioned 50 billion times.

This is practically K2's rage post on rachel except on all the mid-low tiers in the game when you are up against top tiers.

they're both good games and GG is the better one, but you can't be blind and say that GG's rewards for the top tiers for doing the most stupid things are idiotic.

I dont know why this thread turned into hate thread lol, but I guess it sparks some fire.

[Tin Man]

Reminder about the tourney guys. If u can make it, reach it. also

Let's do this.

All numbers in this chart are 100% correct.

[Leo7]

I enjoy Nazir's hate. Especially the Wu comment, lol.

Edit: Don't really agree with a lot of the Tager match-ups on the St1ckBug chart. But what do I know, I'm just a random Canadian scrub.

Edit2: I'VE BEEN THINKING. Since it's unlikely that we're going to get CS2, can someone convince the boss to get MBAACC cause I highly doubt that game is going to be ported any time soon. Then again, I don't know how many people would be willing to play it.