Hateraid Red Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I like the balance in this game. I just think the real enjoyment is going to come from people actually getting the scrubby shit out of their system and getting down to the meta game. that's what I'm waiting for at least. it took forever in BB. hopefully this one won't take a year and a half.
Theupstreamer Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Oh ok I understand now carlos. But yeah, that's why chie is silly tier and kanji isn't =X Justin I will scrub you out til the end of time. >:D
i2agnarok Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I thought about switching to Yosuke, actually. Or Aigis. Dunno, I just don't feel like Narukami's the character for me at this stage. But then again, its not like I train anywhere near as often as I should.
Valthazeryus Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I thought about switching to Yosuke, actually. Or Aigis. Dunno, I just don't feel like Narukami's the character for me at this stage. But then again, its not like I train anywhere near as often as I should. It's okay. I don't train anywhere near as often as I should. Fuck school. /dropout
Ryd' Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 But yeah, that's why chie is silly tier and kanji isn't =X Kanji being in my face actually scares me a lot more than Chie does. With a character like Chie, I know that it's usually over for my preferred zoning/setup-style characters if they get in; the options are usually such that I know I don't have any reliable ones for retaking momentum (R.I.P. HS Beast). "Oh, they got in...well, that's probably the round; let's see how this goes". There's an extra sense of unease with grapplers because you do have options, but if you guess wrong, you're going to die. Chie pisses me off more than any other character though; she has more shit that I find way more aggravating than anything Mitsuru, Aigis, Yu, etc. have.
Zeromus_X Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 http://www.famitsu.com/images/000/022/133/l_506a028ef1c67.jpg Good night guys. Don't let the bedbugs bite.
Chumaralupa Posted October 3, 2012 Author Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Wow 4 pages. Anyways, I'm just going to say that I'd rather play against the 3 characters in question in this order Chie Mitsuru Kanji Justin said it best, grapplers are meant to be played disrespectful and how Jimmy described the Tagers in Japan as being professional butter churners just reinforces that. The fact that you have to be so insanely careful against them is just balls, I can understand patience against zoners and blocking patience against oki/set-up chars, but if you block right you might get out alive. I just think that the concept of getting such a reward off of one semi-good guess is just ridiculous. After playing against Luke's and Ray's Chie I feel like if you block long enough and eat enough throws you'll get out of the pressure eventually, Mitsuru is gay because if you do guess wrong on the pressure you're going to eat 4k meterless or more with meter, and she gets decent damage off her ground throw in the corner and insane damage off of her air throw anywhere. Also since her pokes are at such a range, certain "outs" are bad ideas against her whereas they would have worked against Chie in a similar situation. I'm still a firm believer that Mitsuru is dumber and will always be dumber than Chie barring a rebalance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS-PUmwbyVw Edited October 3, 2012 by Chumaralupa
Greyvangelist Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 So who wants to play some Guilty? Oh god yes please.
Orrax Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Guilty Gear needs to come out already. I want to be able to dustloop again. Also, I agree with everyone who thinks Chie is stupid. Meteors from full screen isn't completely safe, but it's close enough. The best way to deal with that move is to just kill Chie before she gets into awakening, which is easier said than done. My pressure game could also be way better, so I wouldn't recommend using me as a benchmark for how escapable Chie's pressure is. The fact that I need to use 2DD in blockstrings is a good example. That move is +62 on block and it's a frame trap off of multiple moves. It's basically an "I get a free air dash mixup" move. Also, 236A (1) OMC j.B is an instant overhead. I need to be exploiting that more. That said, Chie struggles in some matchups. I personally have trouble against Kanji especially, and I think Aigis gives Chie a lot of problems. Also, if a zoner can consistently kill Chie before she gets into awakening, it can really cripple her pretty badly.
Robawtninja Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Wow I fall asleep and 4 pages piled up on me. To contribute to this serious discussion... Akihiko sucks balls. Big ones. Also Ray, I can see the comparison to Yosuke and Tao but at the same time it's not the same. Tao controls movement in almost all directions and can stop in midair, not having to commit to things. Also her combos pushes you to the corner completely. Yosuke does a combo and doesn't even push you anywhere, you just go straight up lol. Leaving opponents in a midscreen non oki situation. I still feel Yosuke is amazing, just kinda weird at first. And grapplers can be high/A tier, but top tier? I don't think it'll happen unless game developers purposely made it so grapplers can plow through everyone including zoners. Pot is A right? So is Tager later on in CSEX. And Zangief is A tier since the beginning of SF4. Just depends on the matchups guiz.
LegendaryRath Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 That said, Chie struggles in some matchups. I personally have trouble against Kanji especially, Makes some good sense there. While Kanji doesn't technically have "good" match-ups, there are some that are way easier than others. What I'm getting at is this. Kanji's match-ups are ass, like almost every one of them. But yet, somehow, he's always capable to doing well through good reads and patience. I consistently do well against characters like Mitsuru, Naoto, Yu, and on occasion, Yukiko and Liz. All of these are pretty horrible for Kanji on paper but as we all know, grapplers always have a good chance. By comparison, the few characters without zoning/spacing options feel easy. I think Akihiko and Chie are the main examples here, and maybe Labrys as well. Kanji usually needs to work incredibly hard to get close, but since these characters also need to be close, it certainly makes things easier. It's kind of stupid how you have to play against grapplers in general. It's like a whole different game. Heck, the only reason I learned how to play Tager was so that I could learn how I was supposed to deal with him. ^ There's nothing quite as sad as this. I compulsively type whenever I'm home and feeling shitty. Now excuse me while I go take some imitrex.
Valthazeryus Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I personally have trouble against Kanji especially, and I think Aigis gives Chie a lot of problems. One day, you will be in Top 2, regardless, and you'll show the world meatballs and the Vzia's special.
Hateraid Red Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 should we aim to get games going tomorrow or friday? what's best for you folks?
Zeromus_X Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Also, 236A (1) OMC j.B is an instant overhead. I need to be exploiting that more.
Lutrano Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Guilty Gear Accent Core Plus Reload is gonna be great. Not a huge fan of some of the zappa changes, but i'm sure it will work out. Worst case scenario theres always kliff. On that note, koichi took a recent mikado tourney playing kliff : ). corner throw combo into his instant dizzy move for free 60%+ combo is fantastic. Also a quick question about persona mechanics. For a 2 hit move with 100 P2 proration, does it add 100 or 200 total for both hits?
Zeromus_X Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 Also a quick question about persona mechanics. For a 2 hit move with 100 P2 proration, does it add 100 or 200 total for both hits? It depends on if the P2 is applied for every hit, on some attacks, like, Mu's bomb in BB has 92 P2, but it's applied to each hit, so it would be like *.92, *.92, *.92. But for some multi-hit attacks, P2 is only applied once.
Ryuuka Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 For a 2 hit move with 100 P2 proration, does it add 100 or 200 total for both hits? I'm not entirely sure how proration is notated in P4u, since blaz used numbers that were lower than 100, whereas P4u has them all over 100. But yeah, pretty sure it would be 100 twice (assuming you use it mid-combo). Should just use guard meter scaling to make it easy on everyone.
LegendaryRath Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 For me it depends where this would be at, not so much about when. At the very least I should be able to make it to Haz's, but I really want some time to just chill and play casuals.
Lutrano Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 (edited) Working off of the post explaining yuu's data in the p4a thread, I think every 100 proration counts as 1 hit. Proration is based on number of hits. Most moves have SMP of 50, so it doesn't actually apply any extra proration until the 3rd time you use those moves. Most moves have a P2 of 100 for 1 hit. I haven't been able to figure out if the 100 counts twice on 2 hit moves though. Most multi hit moves only have 1 P2 number, some have 100.100 or somesuch, and some have 100.0 . I'm not really sure what to make of it. My best guess is that it only applies once if it just says 100, but if its 100.100 it is two separate 100's. Edited October 3, 2012 by Lutrano
Ryd' Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 To contribute to this serious discussion... Akihiko sucks balls. Big ones. Akihiko is fine. He has solid tools to do his job as someone who wants to get in and skullfuck you, and if he opens you up twice with anything that's not an A normal, you're probably going to die. He can close a gap quickly, has solid mixups once you've taught your opponent some respect, and can deal with the majority of zoning/spacing tactics; but a player needs to have either godlike reflexes or good reads to succeed with him. He is what a cqc character should be (unlike Chie, who was given a move from a completely different style of character to do her job for her.) Concerning grapplers; I'm repeating myself, but the only things really keeping Pot out of S tier in GGAC were the existence of Eddie and Testament HS Beast, who, in all fairness, kept a number of other characters out as well. Gravy, your pic is perfect for that post.
Theupstreamer Posted October 3, 2012 Posted October 3, 2012 I'm calling mehraj gravy from now on no matter the situation.
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