Guilty Gear 2: Overture released

[Blackgenma]

Speaking of turtles, what character was he using?

Izuna. he dumped a tengu and a ice magic elite at my masterghost at the end of round 1.

My partner was on to something because he rushed audio haddock's masterghost before I got mine attacked (my partner was trusted hat). it was so random though, so I didn't bother helping him out (a mistake on my part). he should have told me to gather up or something, but trusted hat doesn't really use the messages. they help a lot when your partner actually listens to you.

[Blackgenma]

Posted new videos in the GG2 video thread, one that made me realize something.

I think Izuna owns valentine in master fights thanks to his flying drill attack. it's really good to catch those keeping they're distance and carelessly shooting stuff.

MOW Damepo(Va) Kimera cryin(Si) Vs watashige(So) yattemo(Iz)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9360174 (Round 1)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9361105 (Round 2)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9361992 (Round 3)

Underworld Hill (L)

round 1 is a marathon of critical downs.

[Sol.Badguy]

Hey blackgenma where do you post your videos other than here? Btw, talk about izuna rape 1st round O.o, valentines should not be charging izunas with no backup whatsoever. I really like how "the re-coming" was playing though :D

[Blackgenma]

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7935

GG2 video thread, it's in the guilty pleasures section of the forum, where they post all the gameplay video related material. I originally had it posted here in the guilty room, but a mod moved it over there.

I like how the fist of the north star music was played when he got into a fight. it was pretty badass.

I found it funny as hell how he got killed in the third round. I saw Sol walk up to him when he was hiding behind the ghost trying to buy a health potion. and it was JUST after Kimera saved him from the Izuna player it a phantom barrel.

[Oblivion292]

That dude is my Izuna role model.

[Blackgenma]

can someone explain to me exactly how Sin's phantom barrel works? I don't understand how it's damage output is controlled, or what amount of health it takes from him and ally servants. I read in the jp wikia it has 3 levels, but that's all I know. apparently, it can do up to 360 damage, which is scary.

if no one answers, I'll find out by myself and post what I discover.

Edit: also, I read some interesting descriptions of the characters in the jp GG2 wikia.

they basically said Sol is a generally all-purpose master, who's pretty much good at doing everything by himself. I thought he was just an ok master who is kinda overrated, but when you take into account how well he generally handles himself in many situations this description fits.(especially when you take into account his personal skills)

they said Raven is like an..."anti-master" master, who specializes at hunting other masters down, which would explain why his crowd control is so horrible without the slow fields. I never thought about him that way....

Raven is kind of boring to play, he's so simple.

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

Meh, Raven's fun if your opponent gets all pissy about you spamming 8Y when they're trying to run :V

[Blackgenma]

Meh, Raven's fun if your opponent gets all pissy about you spamming 8Y when they're trying to run :V

Raven certainly has his moments

I'm getting on today! we should engage in some matches, whoever is interested. I'll be trying out some Sin.

[Blackgenma]

you know, I was actualy considering quitting this game today, thanks to relizing just how bad Sol is as a character over all. of coarse, as you'd imagine, I decided to get over it, but it really bothers me how shitty he is, now that I give it an unbaised look. the only thing he's the best at is air reversals, because he's the only guy who has them. Sol needs both a buff in his units (a general strengthening in their stats) smarter, less retarded AI, and a fucking mobile or magic units. cute how when Sol brings out his Armors, The other player just brings out they're anti armors, and all you can say is "Well shit". his armors are pretty bad considering hown expensive and not fantastic they are against other armors. /bitching. to clear up my anger, I played survival mode 1 on hard again, and killed about 265 guys or somthing like that. after completing the first wave, second wave has crazy health, and I got killed by a quadra balliff. the longer you do the mode, the more the scor punishes you. even after killing all those bastards, I only got a B, because I took about 100 minutes or something like that.

[Blackgenma]

sorry for the triple post, but I feel it's worth it, because I have important stuff to share. I did some testing of units and other nifty junk.

servant battle test.

Paradigm Vs. Sin

many think that because Pardign is such a weak master, he must have the best units right? I thought so for a while, but after playing so many games, it certainly didn't seem that way. So I decided to see who's low-level units were stronger, Paradigm's or Sin's? low level units are the heart of a character's army, so I decded to compare the two.

I did the test in training mode, on triroa, noon. capture units turned off. I had 18 units of each side go to the center of the bottom bridge and fight. melee vs melee, mobile vs mobile, and finally, armor vs armor.

the test ran smoothly, and the results were a bit surprising. All 3 tests, Paradigm's units lost, and they lost by a HUGE margin. I'm saying in all 3 fights, all of Sin's units were still alive by the end (some units were almost dead) and paradigm's units were wiped out. so it's safe to say, in terms of strength this is how the units stack up.

Geroppa < Swordsmen

Bowers < Springbocks

Rollers < Guantlet body *rollers put up the least of a fight compared to the other units, they were completly decimated.

maybe this needs more testing, but it fair to say that Sin's units are more powerful then Paradigm's. the trade off is Sin's units are very expensive in comparison's to paradigm's.

Sin's phantom Barrel

I must admit, I really didn't gather much information about Sin's phantom barrel, other then what is pretty much already known by most. I'll say up front that the projectile has limited range, so you can't be extremely far away and snipe someone with it.

Sin's phantom barrel does 150 damage when he is alone, and takes 48 health from sin, and a little tension (like 5-10 percent tension) I remember a masters only match I had where the oponent shot a level1 phantom barrel at me, but it was canceled out by a gunflame.

when I was arround 5 swordsmen, it did 240 damage, and took some of their health as well as Sin's. nothing alse changed.

surrounding myself with about 18 swordsmen made my Phantom barrel do 360 damage (leaving the oponent with only 140 health). it also seemed to take off less health from Sin (40 hp instead of 48. this version beats gunflame clean.

Sol's Dragon Install

the main atraction here is that Sol's 25 dragon install and 50 dragon install are stackable. you can put them both on at the same time, and get both benifits.

I'll go over what benifits 25 and 50 dragon install gives. remember that none of Sol's dragon install forms can be dispelled

25 - makes Sol move faster, makes Sol attack faster. raises his damage output by 10%. lasts for 30 seconds. he has signifigantly shortend recovery time for his power attack [(F) 8x] and his uppercut [(L) 2x]

50 -raises his damage output by 50%. no other changes. lasts for 30 seconds.

75 dragon install gives him the speed bosts and BOTH the attack boosts for 25 and 50. here's an example of his strength for each level.

Damage delivered by a power attack

0- (150)

25- (165)

50- (225)

75- (247)

to stack the two levels together, you have to have at least 75 dragon install (but not 100) and put on dragon install twice in a row. the sword should look like his 25 dragon install form.

also, I discovered that pencil guys do not contribue to your resource for dragon install.

Gunflame

I'll also tell you how much better his gunflame is in 100 dragon install. in his normal form, Sol's gunflame comes out slow, moves slow, has short range, and cost 15% tension. in 10 dragon install, his gunflame comes out faster (to the extent where doing it in point blank is doable) travels faster, travels farther, and Sol recovers from the move very quickly. he can even spam the move.

heres something useful for both in and out of D.I. Sol regular gunflame can actually go through a ghost, but it's range is reduced. for best results, do it directly next to a ghost. Sol's 100 dragon install gunflame can also go through ghosts, and its range is not reduced at all, nor its speed.

Sol stuff

(L) x, x, 8y is a guard break, no need for three hits before the 8y. MC the last hit of the 8y to follow up with a combo.

(L) 2x > 8y is a guard break. ">" means to cancel into. the oponent cannont escape undamaged by guard canceling in any direction, be it via sidestep, backstep, or jump. this means your garunteed to get some damage off this combo, unless you are reversaled, I assume.

(L) 2x has super armor break properties. I broke Ky's (F) 8x luancher's super armor with it before (Ky did not get launched however). I'm not sure if the super armor break properties are different from Sol's power attack.

you can do Sol's gaurd break overdrive combo by simply doing (L) 6x, x, x+a or (L) 4x, x, x+a. no need for a three hit combo before launching the overdrive. the last hit of the overdrive will do 480 damage.

Sol's crimson jacket gives Sol a 50% defense boost. this is in adtion to about 10 seconds of increased knock back resistance and super armor.

Sin's exciter increases his attack by roughly 25%

and that's all. I hope you find what I post here insightful. we really need to start comparing character strength now. this game definatly has a tier list, and Sin's at the top of it. won't stop me from maining garbage Sol however.

[Oblivion292]

Even if Sin's unit is stronger, Dr. has significantly less cost. That's the main reason why his servants are considered strong imo.

[Blackgenma]

Even if Sin's unit is stronger, Dr. has significantly less cost.

That's the main reason why his servants are considered strong imo.

I mentioned that.

maybe this needs more testing, but it fair to say that Sin's units are more powerful then Paradigm's. the trade off is Sin's units are very expensive in comparison's to paradigm's.

here see?

and when people mention the strength in paradigm's units, they are actually pretty vauge about it. everyone agrees they are cheap, but the good thing about them is that they are at least solid units, even if they are not as strong as Sin's. I think it's Ironic that he has the worst armor in the game tough. I see no redeeming feature about them (besides being armors), but luckily, he doesn't really need them.

I wanna do some more tests in the future, especially concerning Valentine's candies. I'm pretty sure those are the best melee's in the game.

Edit: doop doop. I asked Kou2007 about Sol and he told me that Drills have the most HP out of all the melee units in the game. I feel like getting HP data, because the jp wiki hp data doesn't make any sense to me. It's fun to gather all of this data and whatnot. maybe I'll place a section in my guide for this, so I don't have to worry about things like posting 4 times in a row.

I will try to get data for EVERYBODY'S units next opertunity, meaning I will compare which low level units will win in fights with other low-level units of the same class.

war games war games war games war games war games war games war games war games war games war games war games war games war games war games war games war games

[NeoVid]

I've mentioned my problem of not getting to use Raven, even though he's definitely downloaded on my system. Well, I thought of a possibility for why he's not showing up, which I hope someone can test for me: Does he still appear on the character select while you're not connected to Live?

[Oblivion292]

Must be something wrong with your data. Try clearing and re-downloading? Raven works fine for me.

[Blackgenma]

yeah, there shouldn't be any need to be connected to Xbox live for you to play raven. that's not how DLC works. do what oblivions suggests, and maybe experiment with somethings.

ok, you know how I said the GG2 wiki doesn't make any sense to me? well I lied, I went back and it makes total sense to me. tons of great info there by the way.

Sol's units

Drill: 520

Blade:800

Pencil Guy:370

Fire wheel: 1500

Engulfer: 1200

Gigant: 3000

Blockhead: 700

Queen: 780

Izuna units

Kappa: 480

Namahage: 720

Nekotama: 500

Range unit: 350

Tengu: 1500

Giant armor elite: 3000

Kirin: 1000

elite magic: 750

looking at the chart for the other characters. Kou2007 was wrong when he said drills have the most HP of the melee's, its tied with swordsmen.

Edit: there's a map to help players with their placing of the spirit seeker on the site, but I can't understand it!

sample:http://www12.atwiki.jp/guiltygear2/?plugin=ref&serial=60&w=240

[Sol.Badguy]

Edit: there's a map to help players with their placing of the spirit seeker on the site, but I can't understand it!

sample:http://www12.atwiki.jp/guiltygear2/?plugin=ref&serial=60&w=240

That is kinda confusing. It obviously shows arrows where the spirit seeker will shoot to when placed at certain points, but it's confusing because it seems like a spirit seeker at reds master ghost could shoot to 13 o.o etc.

[Blackgenma]

how can spirit seeker shoot ghost 5 from 7? it's in a cave, one that 5 is outside of. same for ghosts 6 and 4

[Sol.Badguy]

It can shoot through walls thanks to the magical powers of capture units o.o not joking. Edit: Also, why do people use 2Y with valentine so much? It's always seemed like a waste of tension.

[NeoVid]

For these servant tests, maybe you should use equal values of units instead of equal numbers of units. After all, the cost difference between Sin's and Dr P's units is so big there's rarely going to be the same number of them out there. Maybe try 900 points of units vs 900 points on the other side.

[Blackgenma]

For these servant tests, maybe you should use equal values of units instead of equal numbers of units. After all, the cost difference between Sin's and Dr P's units is so big there's rarely going to be the same number of them out there. Maybe try 900 points of units vs 900 points on the other side.

to be honest, I don't have any problem with the numbers of my units when I am Sol, and I have never seen opponents have a problem with the number of their units when they play Sin and Ky, so that statement isn't necessarily true. the purpose is to see the strength of the units.

considering the cost of the units do not always equal the strength of the unit is important, because Sol's low-level unit costs is out of whack with their performance (in a negative sense). same goes for Paradigm's rollers, they are more expensive then they are worth, even GG2 wiki says so. we have to accept the fact that Sin's units are flat out more powerful then Paradigms. (difficult for me to accept)

Sol, take a look at the bottom map. if your interpretation of the map is true, then the the spirit seekers function is not explained in full detail, because the thing can shoot targets that the map is not indicating.

http://www12.atwiki.jp/guiltygear2/?plugin=ref&serial=59&w=240

for example, spirit seeker can attack ghost 5 from ghost 4. but maybe the map is only telling you strategically advantageous locations, so you may be right about it's purpose then.

also, I had no Idea the thing can shoot through walls, that's nice to know.

Edit: before, I said that Sol's crimson jacket raised his defense by 50%. that was incorrect. it actually raised it by 100 percent. he takes half the damage he normally would.

I don't know why valentine players would spam 2y, ask valentine players.

did you guys know mobile units have more health than melee?

[Sol.Badguy]

Yea I think you're right about it only telling advantageous locations except I would think it would be advantageous to have a spirit seeker at 1 and have it shoot for cuz i know for a fact that it can >.o. Oh, and I've also been playing sin a lot more lately and fyi for phantom barrel, it also matters on the type of units you have around you. You can get a lot more damage with 3 elites and 3 swordsman than you can with 10swordsman. I think 3 elites + 3 swordsman was around 720 or something. I think exciter effects it too, but I've never really tested it so I'm not positive.

[Blackgenma]

Yea I think you're right about it only telling advantageous locations except I would think it would be advantageous to have a spirit seeker at 1 and have it shoot for cuz i know for a fact that it can >.o. Oh, and I've also been playing sin a lot more lately and fyi for phantom barrel, it also matters on the type of units you have around you. You can get a lot more damage with 3 elites and 3 swordsman than you can with 10swordsman. I think 3 elites + 3 swordsman was around 720 or something. I think exciter effects it too, but I've never really tested it so I'm not positive.

phantom barrel only does up to 360 damage. that's the limit and is as strong as it will get. I don't know how much stronger it would get with exciter. I'm guessing it would do about 450, because exciter raises Sin's attack by roughly 25 percent.

just posted this in the GG2 thread. Valentine is a strong character

cookingknight(Si) Vs. YAS typeGEAR(Va)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6899769 (Round 1)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6915789 (Round 2)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6928130 (Round 3)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6932478 (Round 4)

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm6938236 (Round 5)

Holy Knights Fortress

I guessed the winner on the first round and I ended up right.

[Sol.Badguy]

Oh lol it did that much because my heavens libra had placed a rod xD nvm then.

[NeoVid]

Pretty impressive match... though it gets on my nerves that as long as I've played Ky, I've never figured out some of the basic stuff that was being used in that match. And on another note of "WTF is with my copy of the game," the mana costs for a lot of the units were different than on mine. Gauntlet Bodies cost 450 in my game, not 420.

[Blackgenma]

Pretty impressive match... though it gets on my nerves that as long as I've played Ky, I've never figured out some of the basic stuff that was being used in that match.

And on another note of "WTF is with my copy of the game," the mana costs for a lot of the units were different than on mine. Gauntlet Bodies cost 450 in my game, not 420.

gotta be a version difference. the game updates when you go on live to the online section and it downloads the information.

what version is your game anyway? it should be ver. 1.46, the only way I know to check is by going to the online menu.