[CT-CS2] Carl Clover Loke Test

[Niko]

Even if that is a mayor buff.. if they keep the 3C and J.2C changes, we will loose ours combo ability, so that buff maybe isnt going to be able to replace our nerf.

Keep in mind that the game system was changed somewhat drastically, and most of the other characters were also nerfed in terms of raw damage output. Applied to our knowledge of the current game, some of these patch notes might hit Carl pretty hard, but in the scope of BBCS2 as a whole, I don't think so.

As a matter of fact, it's quite possible that Carl might end up even better than he is now if the gameplay will indeed be focused on shorter, less damaging combos overall, considering how strong he is at resets (and the new 3D properties will only improve that).

I'm really stoked for that update!

[Kyle]

guys, 3C 'nerf' is not a big deal. We just have to do a different BnB to set up the air combos.

example: ...3C, 22]D[, J.2C, Allecan, 5C, 4]D[/Volante, A-vivace...

[JG]

We need Eddie drills! and 2HS! omg! hahha

Talking seriusly, if we loose 3c that mean that also we loose our single Carls combos..... So now its posible that Carl alone can´t do great dmg.

[ansem]

guys, 3C 'nerf' is not a big deal. We just have to do a different BnB to set up the air combos.

example: ...3C, 22]D[, J.2C, Allecan, 5C, 4]D[/Volante, A-vivace...

I disagree.

[Zoogstin]

It could work possibly work unless 3C has absolutely no down time.

[Mascarpone]

My guess is that they want to keep sandwiches strong (Like corners "will be strong for other characters") but limit his setting them up a little bit. even if 3C doesn't lead into 5k anymore, 3C always netting an air combo -> 3D oki would still be pretty mean. as far as i can tell, the whole CS2 idea is "everyone needs to work harder."

of course we've always been working harder... but... yuh know. Gotta make it seem fair.

[JG]

I was messing around with Nirvana 3]D[. Its a really good move, have neat uses for reset and preparing UB stuff.

After trying stuff like : 5B, 2B, 6B, 6]D[, 6C, 5B, 2B, 5C, 3]D[, J.2C, J.B, J.C, 5A, 2A, 2B, 6B, 2]D[.

Made me realize that now with the new J.2C bounce, performing that kind stuff will be imposible. I dont wanna lose that kind of setups...

[JG]

You know what? Carl need a new special move!.. Like Eddie Breack the law!, that would be awesome.

Just imagine that Carl hide in his Hat and move while he control nirvana XD

[JG]

PEOPLE PEOPLE, Loke 5 Carl change:

* 3C is back to CS version.

+ j2C knocks down.

+ Anima has armour, launches very high.

+ Volante has multi-hit armour for projectiles.

+ Cantata is quicker.

+ NEE-SAN~ moves faster (only during Cantata?).

- Cantata uses up more NEE-SAN~ bar.

Throw damage is 600. Throw > Fermata damage is 1700.

* Volante has same move penalty.

* Brio's knockback trajectory travels farther.

* j.B is no longer a fatal counter

* Overall damage has been drastically reduced.

Discuss! now! XD.

Just one question, how it is that now j.2C cause knock down? how is that supose to be a buff? if that happen, that mean that alle~can reset will get nerfed a lot. The same goes for performing combos with j.2C.

Also, WTF? why we lost more overall damage? seriusly, Carl need to be able to hit hard.

Edited November 15, 2010 by JG

[Marisa]

I know everyone is getting nerfs, but is there even a reason to play Carl anymore with all this?

No long combos for damage, Nirvana recharges slower and consumes more meter so less resets, Carl deals less damage so it's even less worth the suicide misson of trying to operate alone, 8]D[ being airblockable for 2 primers is practically useless due to air breaks being a huge waste of time, j.2C's properties have been messed with across the board (I suppose there's possibilities of it being an excellent and well recieved buff, but I'm not holding my breath), and 2C as his only fatal is just wrong. Anima armor is nice, but I'm sure the high launch will prevent any follow up putting the move right back into the "rarely used" bin.

All that on top of his already existing weaknesses of no DP, terrible defense, and low health.

Sorry about the whiny and pessimistic view on things, I'm sure things will end up ok in the long run. I just love the little guy the way he is, he plays exactly like what I wanted back in the CT days.

[Zoogstin]

I'm not scared yet. I wanna see him action thats all. The j.2C thing has potential if you ask me. The changes are not specific enough. For instance does, j.2C only knockdown air opponents (cool) or also grounded opponents (awkward)? If its simply air opponents then Carl can get oki:

If carl does an aircombo and nirvana is under him, he can send the opponent downward to nirvana. If the opponent is not able get up immediately you can do the whole 3D pickup into mixup or you can still use j.2C to send the opponent into an 8D or 2D. Just thoughts. I need videos.

Carl's character design ie. having to independent characters makes him very very very very versatile. You can do a lot with this character. He is unfair in CS for quite a few reasons (even though I love them all).

[Zeero]

does jB no longer fatal mean no longer wallbounce?

wallbounce has no direct relation to fatal... if it still wall bounces on CH im still fine with that... not like I could ever do the fatal combos with nirvana loop anyway.

[Mascarpone]

Jeezum. Shit-storm of Carl changes O.o

I'm going to be learning the game all over again... again. and I was just getting used to volante in air combos :x

by the way when they say cantata... do they mean rhapsody? because cantata never took up nirvanna meter that i was aware of c.c

In any case, if anima is getting it's super armor and Fuoco still retains it's "garunteed to come out" property from the last loc test i think Carl is still quite dangerous. if nirvanna can't just be poked out of everything that makes her a pretty dangerous thing, even if you can't net 5k juggles off of her.

Given the way they seem to want to make the game play, we might not be in as bad a position. However if "big damage only comes from the corner" and the j.2C thing ruins the j.2C allegretto 8D loop in the corner that will kinda.. hurt.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Mascarpone

[JG]

I'm not scared yet. I wanna see him action thats all. The j.2C thing has potential if you ask me. The changes are not specific enough. For instance does, j.2C only knockdown air opponents (cool) or also grounded opponents (awkward)? If its simply air opponents then Carl can get oki:

If carl does an aircombo and nirvana is under him, he can send the opponent downward to nirvana. If the opponent is not able get up immediately you can do the whole 3D pickup into mixup or you can still use j.2C to send the opponent into an 8D or 2D. Just thoughts. I need videos.

Carl's character design ie. having to independent characters makes him very very very very versatile. You can do a lot with this character. He is unfair in CS for quite a few reasons (even though I love them all).

How J2.C can have potencial? seriusly...

If that move knock down in the air, we will loose our j2.C 2]D[ combos. If J2.C knock down only when the rival is in the ground, we loose the ability to reset and doing crossup. Also with that J2.C we can´t do a combo after a 3C.

Edited November 15, 2010 by JG

[Mascarpone]

How J2.C can have potencial? seriusly...

If that move knock down in the air, we will loose our j2.C 2]D[ combos. If J2.C knock down only when the rival is in the ground, we loose the ability to reset and doing crossup. Also with that J2.C we can´t do a combo after a 3C.

Why wouldn't we be able to combo off 3C? If they were silly enough to make it keep you grounded even when used on an already KD opponent that would be dumb.

3C (j.2c alle_can)xn

[JG]

Mmm... still don´t like the J2.C chage, why the hell they do that to Carl.

If that happen, we will loose ours juggle hability and that suck. I hope that they revert J2.C as in CS in the final vercion.

Edited November 15, 2010 by JG

[Mascarpone]

What i'm curious about is if it knocks down in the air, do we still bounce off their heads or will it be like Unlimited carl and take us to the ground with them?

[ZONG_one]

The only thing I said a couple months ago was if they are taking out FCH j.B wallbounce, I'm quitting Carl.

So don't let me down, ASW.

[Zeero]

The only thing I said a couple months ago was if they are taking out FCH j.B wallbounce, I'm quitting Carl.

So don't let me down, ASW.

Why do we think so alike zong? why?!?

[ZONG_one]

Because we shared the same love for a move that was ever so slightly overpowered. :]

I love FCH j.B.

[Akanishi]

hmmm... I wonder how many of these will be left unchanged.

Here are all the changes

+姉移動が素早い (Doll moves faster)

+JCで相手を叩き落とす(with JC you can drop your opponents)

+アニマの浮きがかなり高く受け身不能に (anima's float is higher, untechable)

+ヴォランテモーションに弾アーマー付加 (volante has projectile armor)

+カンタータの発生早く (cantata is faster)

-全体的な火力の大幅減 (damage nerfed significantly)

-姉コストが全体的に増加 (Sis cost is higher overall)

-Aヴィヴァーチェの無敵削除(a vivace has no invincibility)

-投げの威力600に (throw is 600dmg)

-ヴォランテに同技乗算付加(same move proration added to volante)

-ブリオの吹っ飛ぶ軌道が遠くに (brio sends opponents flying further away)

-JBのフェイタル削除 (J.B CH no longer Fatal)

source http://generalnantoka.blog35.fc2.com/blog-entry-405.html#cm

Edited November 15, 2010 by Akanishi

[ZONG_one]

Hmm.

Vivace A is troubling.

It wasn't even good to begin with, lol wtf.

And so was it a mistake about j.2C earlier, and it's j.C that drops opponents?

If so, I'd be so fucking down.

For when your combos are too high to end in clap.

sj.B > j.2C > j.C knockdown > 2D otg stuff could work.

Or something.

I wanna know if it's j.2C or j.C that is being said to have knockdown property.

[Mascarpone]

I can live without the added hit stun from Fatal as long as j.b still wall bounces. If nothing else it gives me a split second to collect my head and form a plan.

and really, a.Vivace?? That was the only thing we had that was almost a reversal c.c

[JG]

Mmm, maybe j.C with knockdown isnt bad. Because now we can do stuff like this:

For example some j2C juggle with 2]D[, volante, 8]D[, etc and in the end put j.C for knock down and use 3]D[ for force stanting and try to reset again.

I justs hope that j2.C bounce will be the same as CS.

Edited November 15, 2010 by JG

[ZONG_one]

I just want some of that stuff cleared up, like.

Is it j.2C or j.C that knocks down?

If j.B not FCH, does it still wall bounce on regular CH?

Untechable anima = command throw? Or does untechable mean once thrown, opponent cannot tech until they hit the ground?

Volante projectile armor means what?