Ronove Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 Well I decided two weeks ago to learn Valk for good, I grew tired of Tao and while I was learning Makoto I didn't particularly find much satisfaction either. On the other hand I'm loving Valk! Feels like a 2.0 version of Tao with probably even better movement options and with a wonderful antiair ( w5B ). Anyway, straight-up question: I've been using that japanese tutorial vid to practice all the segments in Valk's combos and setups, and was practicing the [w]5B > [w]jB > 3C > [w]jA bit... and I noticed that in the japanese wiki that they usually include an IAD inbetween [w]5b and [w]jB. Is there a particular reason for doing this? The only one I could come up with is that Valk pushes the opponent further towards the corner increasing the chances to continue with the human 2C > 6C > dash/walk 2C > 6B > etc etc Also, is it normal that I'm having a tough time hitting Makoto during that string (during the part after [w]jA > 5D > 2C)? If I do 5B instead of 2C it's no problem but that obviously changes the combo route for the rest of the combo.
OrionXElite Posted August 10, 2011 Posted August 10, 2011 For the IAD thing, midscreen especially, the j.B won't connect unless the 5B is point blank if you just jump cancel it. The IAD will always allow the j.B to connect and then 3C>j.A follows suit with no other troubles. As for Makoto, she has an interesting Hitbox. It's not that it's small or anything like that, but whenever she gets hit in the air, she bounces higher from the hit than any other character in the game. So because of this, you have to adjust her height somehow(Not much, just a very small tweak) Try delaying the [W]j.B just a bit in the corner. Doing the IAD should readjust her height naturally and everything should work just fine after that
OrionXElite Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 CS2 Loketest Changes Taken from the Loketest thread in BB General, this is the image that shows the changes they made to each character. There are 2 others in that thread, I just pulled the one with Valk on it so if anyone wants to translate or just look at it, its here:yaaay:
Sahgren Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) Got Valk news: I'll update as more crap comes in. Valkenhayn [Wolf Middle B] Removed invincibility on head [Naht Yager] Knock Back when midair increased [Razen Volf] Volf gage usage increased "valk 3c is special cancellable" Valk 3C now emergency techable. "valk 2c untech time is down" Valkenhayn - Eisen Wolf (アイゼン / Thanks MasterMind!) recovery increased ----------------------------------------------------- Personal Comments: Loss of [w]5B AA makes me sad. On the other hand, it really was a freakishly strong AA. Wolf meter usage up is also saddening. Both happy and sad over the 3C changes. It's now better for pressure, but it's also a bit of a damage loss in the corner. Eisen Wolf recovery increased... hoping we still can at least follow up wiht [w]5A on CH. Edited August 11, 2011 by Sahgren
OrionXElite Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 I can't believe they removed the head invul on [W]5B entirely:v: Thats our one legitimate Anti Air and we already had to put ourselves in a risky spot just to use it so now we're fucked even more in the defensive department. Looks like we're gonna have to either force it to trade and hope we can get a [H]5C after it or go back to hoping 2C trades good. And if the untech time reduction on 2C makes his combos messed up, I'm gonna be pissed.
Sahgren Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 Things I wanna know: Does CH 2C > 6C still combo, and does 236A have enough blowback on airborne hit for 3C > 236A to be a viable confirm for corner carry. Heck, does 3C > 236A even combo?
NeonCrusader Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 3C 236A probably will combo, if only because 3C is special cancel-able now. My main concern is that with 2C's untechable time being reduced, 2C 6C is now normally impossible on air hit (doesn't matter if it was even 1 frame reduction since it's currently 2C 25 untech and 6C 25 startup) unless they made 6C faster. Heck if they reduced it enough 2C 6B may be impossible on air hit. Though, this is only a loketest so I guess it's a bit too early to freak out about anything haha.
Ronove Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 If you guys can link me to the source of the news I can translate them. That said, I really hope the changes to his wolf 5B aren't definitive, it's true that it's a godlike antiair but if they remove that how on earth is Valk supposed to deal with air-to-ground pressure? Unless they plan to use his movement as his primal option when it comes to dealing with that situation rather than just moving in and 5b'ing the opponent...
Verard Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 [Wolf Middle B] Removed invincibility on head Whaaat, first 2C now this? 6A is our only AA now I guess, and it's kind of iffy.
Zeron_X25 Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 Unfortunately, 2C 6C mid combo doesn't work anymore. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0KsQc-Tt0s&feature=feedf#t=119 You can see it completely whiff. I don't know how this is going to change his combos but I'm sure there are new combo possibilities with this nerf.
OrionXElite Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 That may have been a proration problem as there were quite a few hits before the 6C. If sny of those were [W]5A, I'm not surprised it dropped. That prorated the combo to all hell.
Zeron_X25 Posted August 11, 2011 Posted August 11, 2011 That may have been a proration problem as there were quite a few hits before the 6C. If sny of those were [W]5A, I'm not surprised it dropped. That prorated the combo to all hell. Might be the case. I did see Valkenhayn reach 4k starting from midscreen in that vid so I think his damage is still there.
Leo7 Posted August 12, 2011 Posted August 12, 2011 w5B was easily one of the best anti-air in the game, I'm not surprised it got nerfed, it was just too good (similar to CS1 Valk's 2C). It was pretty safe on whiff too, you could just mash it sometimes. Lack of anti-air isn't too big of a deal since Valk probably still has decent mobility. If they buff Valk's 5A so that it becomes a better anti-air (slightly bigger hitbox), then everything will be fine.
Nokita Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) More stuff. *Nachtjäger: increased untechable time on air hit in addition to increased knockback. same move proration added. nachtJäger>5D>wolf JA>micro walk 5B>JB>3C>JA>5D>2C>6C works mid screen. 2A>5B>3C>nachtjäger>2C>6C>2C>6B>2C works in the corner *2C untech time decreased. No idea what this is about. 2C>6B and 2C>6C work fine on air hit. It may refer to a standing hit,which would mean that 2C>6B probably doesn't work(on standing). Or 2C>schwarz.Or 2C>Rosen Dunno. *Increased recovery or reduced attack levels on most,if not all beast cannons. (Unconfirmed:This may effect some of the juicy combos with 4 beast cannons.The guy isn't sure if he screwed up or something.) *Increased wolf gauge drain effects valk's everything. Quote:"[5B> JB> 3C> JA] x 3 probably kills your full bar" *Current substitutes for wolf 5B AA: *4C/7C: situational *go air to air with wolf JA *Nachtjäger: can work. *Pray for a trade of some sort. *wolf 5B: Despite the nerf,it can be fast enough to counter hit most of the air to ground attacks during their start up from what people say.Or pray for a trade and go from there. *"wolf D still has a bit of head attribute invincibility" I suppose this means that a well timed transformation might save your ass.Who knows? *Counter assault is impossible to follow up As always take these things with a grain of salt. Source(s):various twitters,valk thread on the jbbs,blogs,wiki EDIT:Increased gauge drain explained cs2→cs2+ Ground rasen: 5C/6C [100→200] +100 1C/2C/03C [100→150] +50 4C [100→100] +0 7C [150→250] +100 8C/9C [150→250] +100 Air rasen: 5C/6C [200→200] +0 1C/2C/3C [100→150] +50 4C [150→250] +100 7C [150→250] +100 8C/9C [250→250] +0 Ground geschwind: 5D/6D [150→150] +0 1D/2D3/D [150→150] +0 4D [150→150] +0 7D [100→150] +50 8D/9D [150→150] +0 Air geschwind: 5D/6D [250→250] +0 1D/2D/3D [200→200] +0 4D [150→150] +0 7D [300→300] +0 8D/9D [250→250] +0 Source: http://www16.atwiki.jp/bbcs-varuken/pages/60.html Edited August 14, 2011 by Nokita
Rokunaya Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 How do I make people respect 236A on block/hit, with just doing a human reset or wolf? Human is just mash 2A after right? Wolf seems to lose to 5A mashing, so I dunno what's legit or not anymore
Leo7 Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Never do 236A on block unless it's against someone who really doesn't know the match-up. You're only +1 on hit after 236A, so 2A mash doesn't beat opponents who mash 5 frame normals that hit crouching (or even 6 frames moves, cause it'll trade). Noel's annoying five frame 5A comes to mind. On hit, wolf 5D works against people who don't mash after 236A of course. If they're mashing A attacks, do 4D or 7D and you might be able to punish a whiffed A attack with a wolf j.A, depending on the character. Problem is, some characters can just keep mashing As and hit you out of your 4D/7D, or if they react properly, they can hit you out of the backdash with a stronger move like a 5B or a 5C. 7D -> 2C~C allows you to stop your command dash in midair, and then you can react to a mash with either airdash wj.B or a wj.236A or whatever else you fancy. This is still punishable by most characters, but it's difficult for people to react to, and they usually need to punish it by dashing forward. Now here's the super yomi option that I like to do: 6A after 236A. It'll punish most normal mashing, and you'll score a nice counterhit combo. It will even clash with some DPs (Makoto and Ragna ahem). Loses horribly to reversal throw though. Might be a few more options I'm missing. All about conditioning and reading your opponent really.
OrionXElite Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Try canceling into Wolf by doing 4/7D. The Wolf Dashes at 4 and 7 have some invincibility for baiting things like DPs. You can Brake after you're far enough away and then you're back at Neutral and can try and get back in from there. As for Human Form, if you KNOW they're gonna mash on 5A, counter them with a 6A and the Guard Point will make them eat shit for trying. If you can make this work a couple times, they'll start respecting it a LOT more.
OrionXElite Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Double Post: Adding the Changes in the recent loketest: +Wolf 5B now has head invul up until the hit -j236B (Moonlitch, I forgot the motion) is now air blockable without barrier. I'm just glad that they gave us back Head Invul on [W]5B. They had every reason to reduce the Head Invul though so its completely fair. Although I'm wondering if its Frame 1 Invul or not. If it isn't, I'm guessing it'll be like 4-7 Head Invul or something. Mondlitch...Eh whatever, Air Unblockable was more for troll tactics for me than anything :3
Sahgren Posted August 25, 2011 Posted August 25, 2011 Double Post: Adding the Changes in the recent loketest: +Wolf 5B now has head invul up until the hit -j236B (Moonlitch, I forgot the motion) is now air blockable without barrier. I'm just glad that they gave us back Head Invul on [W]5B. They had every reason to reduce the Head Invul though so its completely fair. Although I'm wondering if its Frame 1 Invul or not. If it isn't, I'm guessing it'll be like 4-7 Head Invul or something. Mondlitch...Eh whatever, Air Unblockable was more for troll tactics for me than anything :3 I'll miss the random Mondlicht hits. On the plus side, this'll give me a reason to not risk wolf cancelling straight into someone who blocked it. Getting [w]5B as an AA back makes me happy. I'll agree that the nerf was warranted though. @Rokunya: Keep mixing up whether you're going forward/back/not transforming. If they're not certain whether or not you'll wolf cancel, it becomes a lot harder on them to get out.
Leo7 Posted August 26, 2011 Posted August 26, 2011 [w]5B will probably trade now in this version since the invul isn't during the active frames. Which means you could end up with a something dumb like [w]5B trade > 2C > 6C. I hope that doesn't happen though lol.
Sahgren Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 Guys abandon ship we lost 2C > 6C Has that been confirmed yet? I'll be a little sad if it is, but there's not point in panicking until we know for certain we won't have it in the final product.
OrionXElite Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 Thats the supposed translation of a note from the Loketest. Not 100% confirmed as far as I know.
Leo7 Posted August 27, 2011 Posted August 27, 2011 Saw the stuff you're mentioning Geno. I believe it's saying 2C = less untechable time and 6C has longer start-up. I believe it also says that you can't connect 2C > 6C off weaker proration starters, not that you can't connect it at all, but I'm not sure. Also, there's more recovery on a whiffed wolf command grab. Good. No more wolf command grab whiff 5B mash cause the opponent read the command grab and tried to jump and punish it, only to get hit by wolf 5B .
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