[CS1-CSE] Valkenhayn General Discussion

[BatousaiJ]

It's not nonsense, he really is OP. I won't list the reasons since you know them already, but he currently is too strong. I've seen plenty of reputable posters on here say the same, too, so it's not just a couple random scrub comments.

By... OP, do you mean imbalanced damage/mix up?

If so, I would agree to a degree but once again, I would argue that due to his weaknesses, those strengths weigh themselves out well enough.

However, if you're saying that he's a better character than Litchi, Bang or even Hazama(the "current" considered S, A ranks), then I would have to strongly disagree.

No one should cry bloody murder about his damage nerfs because really, his damage certainly needed to be readjusted but like I said about his weaknesses(and I'm starting to wonder if I should list them), if you nerf his mix up/damage too much from now he'll become terrible because he'll have no real strengths to even out his weaknesses.

Given this is strictly my experience(1k ish matches with him so far) but I've found Valk to be a more advanced noob killer(like Tager) in that he has things he can do to rape people that don't know the match up well enough yet(who does though?) or just aren't very good. A ton of people are posting up their experience about Valk when he's been out only for what now, 2 months? Proclaiming a definitive thought that he is "OP" in that instance of time isn't just nonsense, it's irresponsible.

[STenSatsu]

It's not nonsense, he really is OP. I won't list the reasons since you know them already, but he currently is too strong. I've seen plenty of reputable posters on here say the same, too, so it's not just a couple random scrub comments.

Garauntee it's nonsense. Plenty of reputable posters have also said he isn't op, so that goes both ways. The only thing 'op' about him is his meter gain and his DD's minimum damage, but that is a problem with like half the cast. I'd honestly be hesitant to put him as better than makoto in a tier listing.

[GenoWhirl]

So 2C is not an Anti-Air anymore

Ooh boy I hope 6A gets better

[HiagoX]

Garauntee it's nonsense. Plenty of reputable posters have also said he isn't op, so that goes both ways. The only thing 'op' about him is his meter gain and his DD's minimum damage, but that is a problem with like half the cast. I'd honestly be hesitant to put him as better than makoto in a tier listing.

I wouldn't go that far, really.

[StarryShade]

To be honest, when Makoto's parry loops and other 7k combos were discovered everyone cried broken and imbalanced. I'll be honest we just need to wait out the storm and figure out the character's gaps and punishable moves, he may have high damage but he loses out to anyone who can lock him down from a distance.

Jus' sayin.

[GenoWhirl]

Aww yeah we can combo from j.C now

that makes me happy

[BatousaiJ]

Aww yeah we can combo from j.C now

that makes me happy

The what now?

[Jais]

2C is definitely still an anti-air, the active hitbox is high and if thrown preemptively can be used like Tager's 2C.

Valk's j.C's level increased so when it connects on a jump-in, high up, Valk can now land and still combo off of that hit.

[GenoWhirl]

Which makes 5B LOL j.C actually viable now, without having to RC to get a combo from that high up.

Maybe the whole "there's more gravity now" thing helps too

[STenSatsu]

I really doubt they'll let you combo off the instant overhead j.c. That would be retarded. It probably means you can combo from hitting them higher than now while jumping in.

[BatousaiJ]

Which makes 5B LOL j.C actually viable now, without having to RC to get a combo from that high up.

Maybe the whole "there's more gravity now" thing helps too

Valk's jB is awesome at crossing people over, jC is not. jC is handy for people waiting on the ground trying to 5A you out of the air though.

[GenoWhirl]

In any case, j.C being easier to combo with is always great news

Hell we might be even be able to fit a 2C in some cases

[Dr.Faust]

Hay I've been gone for a while. So I'm sorry for asking for this. When is Valkyenhime comeing out for 360

[BatousaiJ]

In any case, j.C being easier to combo with is always great news

Hell we might be even be able to fit a 2C in some cases

My ideal would be jC -> 3C -> 2C... drool-worthy damage potential from that one. If not 2C, 2B -> 5C would suffice after 3C.

[GenoWhirl]

3C pushes further away now though, I doubt 2C will hit after 3C

But now

j.C > 2C > MONDLAICHUTO would be quite useful

The question is: is 2C still fast enough?

[Edge Reaper]

Hay I've been gone for a while. So I'm sorry for asking for this. When is Valkyenhime comeing out for 360

Valkyenhime hasn't been announced yet.

Same for 360 Valkenhayn.

[Ronove]

My ideal would be jC -> 3C -> 2C... drool-worthy damage potential from that one. If not 2C, 2B -> 5C would suffice after 3C.

If I am not wrong 3C meterless combos will disappear in CS2. At the previous loketest it looks like they changed the move so that it would push opponents farther than 2B's range (hence it shouldn't really be able to link to other stuff anymore without using a rapid cancel).

Besides that, even with the current Valk 3C combos are not that convenient since they require him to be on the opponent's face (if you hitconfirm at max range or even at mid range chances are that 2B will still whiff).

That, and if you land a air-to-air j.C (opponent being above) you'll already knock the opponent down so when you land you can immediately go into 2B > 5C/2C > etc

Edited November 18, 2010 by Ronove

[eirei]

There's always 3C 236B, unless they made 3C techable or something. I can't even remember what is and what isn't techable anymore since they change them on a daily basis.

[HiagoX]

Valkyenhime hasn't been announced yet..

Holy shit I can't believe I actually imagined this.

Someone please hold me, I'm falling.

[BatousaiJ]

If I am not wrong 3C meterless combos will disappear in CS2. At the previous loketest it looks like they changed the move so that it would push opponents farther than 2B's range (hence it shouldn't really be able to link to other stuff anymore without using a rapid cancel).

Besides that, even with the current Valk 3C combos are not that convenient since they require him to be on the opponent's face (if you hitconfirm at max range or even at mid range chances are that 2B will still whiff).

That, and if you land a air-to-air j.C (opponent being above) you'll already knock the opponent down so when you land you can immediately go into 2B > 5C/2C > etc

Saying bye bye to Valk's 3C combos gonna be as tough as saying good bye to Mu's 3C gimmicks, at least for me. I 236A RC 3C 2C etc all the time for meaty 5k damage and while it's true that it's hard to connect 2C after knock down with 3C, small step forward 2B will connect most of the time which you can lift off for good damage/meter gain.

Given the enemy isn't hit in a low position, none of Valk's ground gatlings will connect into 236C for automatic combo(outside of RC/CH obviously) which has us generally going for resets into wolf form for mix up reset which is a bit annoying, making 3C all the more useful for guaranteed damage and superior meter gain if you can land it in close/mid range.

Oh and since we probably won't be able to do it anymore, condition your opponent to block high with 236C and then after you throw the 236C in a blockstring, RC into 3C immediately, pick up with 2C for massive damage, good times.

[Ronove]

As I said in the earlier post it might still be possible to 236A RC 3C, but we'll probably follow with 2B rather than 2C.

[StarryShade]

Oh and since we probably won't be able to do it anymore, condition your opponent to block high with 236C and then after you throw the 236C in a blockstring, RC into 3C immediately, pick up with 2C for massive damage, good times.

That would work if Naght Rozen was still an overhead.

[GenoWhirl]

6A CH is air untechable (YES)

6C Wall bounces in corner

[BatousaiJ]

That would work if Naght Rozen was still an overhead.

I do believe you missed the part where I said "since we probably won't be able to do it anymore".

6A CH is air untechable (YES)

6C Wall bounces in corner

Now losing some head invincibility on 2C doesn't hurt as much.

6A is so going to be my go-to anti air XD.

And horray for 6C still being one of he best overheads in the game~

[Ross]

still condition your opponent to block high with 6c into wolf a or up wolf transform block or whatever and then go for 236b. Even though 236b is only super good if you either have 50% meter or are near the corner.