Heroic_Legacy Posted October 10, 2010 Posted October 10, 2010 (edited) Instant Blocking cuts down on guardstun by 5 frames on the ground and 10 frames in the air, and what happens when you can Instant Block? You punish the unpunishable. I've compiled a list of EVERY NORMAL GATLING in the game, and what is IB punishable and what isn't. Feel free to up your game! Ragna the Bloodedge Note: Didn't attempt 360B punishes with Ragna. IB 360A 5A 5B 5A 2A 5A 5C 5A 3C 2A 2B 2A 5B 2A 5C 2A 3C 2A 2C 2B 5C 2B 2C 2B 3C 5B 5D 2C 6C 5C 5D 2C 5D 5D (1) 5D (Yes that's right, IB the first part of 5D and 360A is free) IB 720C 5B 5C 5B 2C (Careful...) 5B 6A 5B 3C 5C 2C (Careful...) 6B 5C 6B 2C (Careful...) 6B 3C Jin Kisaragi IB 360A 5A 2A 5A 5B 5A 5C (360B) 5A 6A (360B) 2A 6A (360B) 2A 5C (360B) 5C 2C (360B) 5C 6C (360B) 2C 6C (360B) 5C 5D (360B) 5C 2D (360B) 5C 6D (360B) 6C 2D (360B) 6C 6D (360B) IB 720C 5A 5A 2A 2A 2A 2B 2A 5B 5B (1) 5C 5B (2) 5C 5B (1) 2B 5B (2) 2B 5B (1) 3C 5B (2) 3C 2B 5C 2B 3C Noel Vermillion Note: Didn't do Drive moves yet. IB 360A 5A 2A 5A 6A 5A 6B (360B) 5A 5B 5A 5C 2A 2A 2A 5B 2A 2B 2A 6B (360B) 2A 5C 2B 2B 2B 5C 2B 2C 6B 3C (360B) 5C 2C 2C 3C (360B) IB 720C 5A 2B 5A 6C 5B 5C 2B 6C 6C (1) 2C Rachel Alucard Note: 2C and 6C not included. 2C (Cat Chair) is not a move put in strings ever. 6C is float so you can't 360/720 it. IB 360A 5A 2A 5A 6A (360B) 5A 5B 5A 2B (360B) 5A 6B (360B) 5A 4B (360B) 5A 5C (360B) 2A 2A 2A 6A (360B) 2A 5B 2A 2B (360B) 2A 6B (360B) 2A 4B (360B) 5B 6B 5B 4B (360B) 5B 5C (360B) IB 720C 2A 5A 5B 6A 2B 5B Taokaka Note: 6B is airborne, cannot be 360/720. Drive moves are untestable IB 360A 5A 5A 5A 6A (360B) 5A 2B 5A 5C (360B) 5A 2C (360B) 5A 6C (360B) 5A 3C (360B) 2A 2B 2A 5C (360B) 2A 2C (360B) 2A 6C (360B) 2A 6C (360B) 2A 3C (360B) 5B 5C 5B 6C (360B) 5B 2C (360B) 5B 3C 5C 2C (360B) 5C 6C (360B) 2C 6C (360B) 3C (2) 3C IB 720C 5A 2A 5A 5B 5B 2B Carl Clover Note: Doll makes 90% of this IB safe anyway. IB 360A 5A 2A 5A 6A 5A 5B (360B) 5A 2B (360B) 5A 6B (360B) 5A 5C (360B) 5A 2C (360B) 5A 3C (360B) 5A 6C (360B) 2A 5A 2A 5B (360B) 2A 2B (360B) 2A 6B (360B) 2A 5C (360B) 2A 2C (360B) 2A 3C (360B) 5B 6B 5B 5C IB 720C 5C 3C 5C 2C For the record, 5C is the hardest move to IB in the game. Litchi Faye Ling Note: s: Staff , 4D is airborne cannot 360/720 IB 360A 5A s6A (360B) 5A s5B 5A s2B (360B) 5A s6B (360B) 5A s5C (360B) 5A s2C (360B) 5A s3C (360B) 5A s6C (360B) 2A s6A (360B) 2A s5B 2A s2B (360B) 2A s6B (360B) 2A s5C (360B) 2A s2C (360B) 2A s3C (360B) 2A s6C (360B) s5B s6A (360B) s5B s6B s5B s5C s5B s3C (360B) s5B s6C (360B) s2B s6A (360B) s5C s3C (360B) s2C s6C (360B) 5A 5B 2A 5B 5B 5C 5B 2C 5C 3C IB 720C 5A 2A 2A 2A s5B s2C 5C 2C 2C 3C Arakune Note: This won't help you with the matchup at all IB 360A 2A 2A 2A 32C 2A 5B 5A 6A (360B) 5A cl.6B 2B 2B 6A 6B (360B) 6A 5D (360B) 6A 5C 5C 5D IB 720C 5A 5A Iron Tager Note: Hate mirrors with a passion IB 360A 5A 6A (360B) 5A 5B 5A 2B 5A 6B (360B) 5A 5C (360B) 5A 6C (360B) 5A 2C (360B) 5A 3C (360B) 5A 5D (360B) 5A 2D (360B) 5A 4D (360B) Sad, I know. 2A 2B 2A 5C (360B) 2A 2C (360B) 2A 3C (360B) 2A 5D (360B) 2A 2D (360B) 2A 4D 5B 6B (360B) 5B 2B 5B 5C (360B) 5B 2C (360B) 5B 5D (360B) 5B 2D (360B) 5B 4D 2B 2C 2B 3C 5C 6A (360B) 5C 5B (360B) 5C 6C (360B) 5C 5D (360B) 5C 2D (360B) IB 720C 5A 5A 5A 2A 2A 2A 2A 5B 5C 3C Bang Shishigami Note: This section isn't short due to lack of gatlings... IB 360A 5A 2B (360B) 5A 5C (360B) 5A 2C (360B) 5A 6A 2A 2A 2A 5B 2A 2B 2A 2C 5B 5C 5B 6A (360B) IB 720C 5A 2A 5A 5B 5C 2C Lambda-11 Note: Testing for all C moves done after 8 hits IB 360A 5A 2A 5A 6A (360B) 5A 5B 5A 2B 5A 6B 5A 4B 5A 5C (360B) 5A 2C (360B) 5A 6C (360B) 5A 3C (360B) 2A 5B 2A 2B 2A 6B (360B) 2A 4B 2A 5C (360B) 2A 2C (360B) 2A 6C (360B) 2A 3C (360B) 5B 6B 5B 5C (360B) 5B 2C (360B) 5B 6C (360B) 2B 5C (360B) 2B 2C (360B) 2B 6C (360B) 2B 3C 6B 5C 6B 2C 6B 6C (360B) 5C 6C 2C 6C (360B) IB 720C 5A 5A 5B 2B 5B 3C Haku-Men Haku-Men has no gatling normals outside of 6A 6B. And that's airtight. Hazama Note: 5C (1) is like the safest move ever. IB 360A 5A 6A (360B) 5A 5B 5A 2B (360B) 5A 6B (360B) 5A 5C 5A 2C (360B) 5A 3C (360B) 2A 2A 2A 5B 2A 2B (360B) 2A 5C (360B) 2A 2C (360B) 2A 6C (360B) 5B 6B (360B) 5B 3C 2B 6B (360B) 2B 5C 2B 2C (360B) 2B 3C IB 720C 5A 5A 5A 2A 5B 2C 5B 6C 5C (2) 3C Tsubaki Yayoi IB 360A IB 720C Mu-12 IB 360A IB 720C Makoto Nanaya IB 360A IB 720C Valkenhayn R. Hellsing IB 360A IB 720C To be finished... Edited November 2, 2010 by Heroic_Legacy
Coopa Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow. You have no idea how happy I am to see this.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 11, 2010 Author Posted October 11, 2010 No problem. Now just work on finding a non laggy tournament screen so you can show the world what this thread did for you Coopa.
iOryan Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 i love you Heroic_Legacy, good stuff mate. sidenote: get well soon.
Mike Z Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Arakune IB 360A 5A cl.6BI certainly appreciate your work, this must have taken forever! Ahem. Not to cast doubt on your Science or anything, but are you absolutely sure you were doing these as fast as possible? This one stuck out to me. You don't list 5A->5A...and 5A has the same startup as the followup 6B, 6f. So either they both should be possible, or neither. Ara frame data: 5A has 6 startup, 3 active, 12 recovery, -5 on block. Last 2 active frames + 12 recovery = 14, -5 "static difference" = 9f of blockstun (agrees with Lv 0 attack). Instant block -5f so 4f of blockstun. Both 5A and 6B startup in 6f, meaning you get hit on 7f, 3f after your blockstun. Tager's 360A is invincible on frame 3, so if you do it at the first possible frame you should be able to 360A both 5A->5A and 5A->6B. So um, your table might be accurate for 720s (invincible from first frame) but I would worry that some of the 360As aren't actually possible if your opponent is chaining as fast as he can be, which could get you counterhit and cost you round, the match, and the respect of the girl standing behind you, who instead of falling madly in love just decides to depart; thereby leaving your life a lonely emptiness filled only by the daily testing and verification of the more data for the aforementioned table. (^.^)' And yes, knowing that you can 360A any followup if you complete it exactly 4F after blocking his 5A certainly won't actually let you do it in the heat of battle.
Maho Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 For Litchi's 4D, it's not actually airborne as fast as it looks, if you IB any normal that came before it it's a free 360B/720.
Sophisticat Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Very minor correction: Hakumen has no ground gatlings outside of 6a 6b. His j.a gatlings to j.b. But considering you'll rarely, if ever, see that outside of a combo, the point is moot. Just wanted to point that out. Aside from that, very impressive work.
A.X.I.S. Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 hey mike I just tried out that thing on ara. I can't IB 360 5A>5A but I could IB 5A>cl6B its weird maybe I should try 720. I remember being able to MTW 5A>5A a few months back. edit: if you try to IB 360 5A>5A you get CH'd...
Seifuuku Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 360a will only work if there is a 3 frame gap.. arakune 5a->5a is a 2 frame gap.
Astaroth136 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 This is great work! It would be even more amazing if someone could put this in a video...
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 11, 2010 Author Posted October 11, 2010 Just for your information, the way I did this testing was kinda impractically long, but I felt it'd give me the best results. I used a TE-S for the 2nd player who was doing gatlings and I put the second button on rapid fire. So when I went on record (Say for Ragna's 5B 5C) I pressed 5B and held 5C down for a few frames. This way it'll give it like a huge number of inputs so it'll work. Obviously won't work for Jin, but I just trusted my own stuff. For Lambda 5C tests I just held the button down and pushed the direction as fast as I possibly could. As for if I trust it, I made sure to re-record every input multiple times and tested it IB 360A again and again. Frame data isn't trustworthy to me in this situation because of normal cancels. I completely ignored all frame data and did this by hand. Frame data is good in it's own right, but too much dependancy on the numbers will leave you empty when you don't know what to look for. I just took theory, and experimented on it. It was a rather successful experiment too I might add.
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 11, 2010 Author Posted October 11, 2010 Rest of the data should be up by Wednesday. Tuesday is my super anime power up day training montage for SB:R.
Mike Z Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Frame data isn't trustworthy to me in this situation because of normal cancels.I'm not sure I understand this sentence. I didn't bring up frame data because I trust it completely, I brought it up because this is exactly the type of situation it is useful for. (^.^) Figuring out blockstun and startup will take you as far as frame data can take you, which is "this move is possible here". Then your testing says "this move will actually hit". But it's not useless... Remember you can hold the button down in BB to count as pressing it every single frame for 5F. That might help for things you can't turbo. At any rate, I wasn't being negative, I was just pointing out that it didn't match. Quite possibly there's an error in the frame data - nobody really cares what the startup of Ara cl.6B is since it's not used on its own anyway. [edit] See you at SB!
Heroic_Legacy Posted October 11, 2010 Author Posted October 11, 2010 Know of anyone else of awesomeness going to SB? I could use some awe-inspiring news to make me work super hard now. Tager v Tager v Tager v Tager top 4. Lets all take the money!
A.X.I.S. Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I won't be able to come to SB, I got personal stuff this week...otherwise I'd come with troy. also great thread, can't wait until you post that makoto stuff. I want to know if I can IB j.whatever and 360 for free.
Mike Z Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 shtkn is going, and Hellmonkey is going...nobody else from SoCal I think, and dunno who from Norcal. If there is even one Tager in top 4, I will give them a dollar. If there are 2+, $5 each.
Augxst Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 Nice work Legacy, looks like I need to start IBing more often.
Ravage C Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 This is a great list thanks Heroic, but can someone clear something up for me? Ragna the Bloodedge IB 360A 5A 5B In this example if I IB 5A and 5B I can 360A, but every time I try to do it I get counter hit. I just wanted to know is this because I'm doing the 360A too slow or is it necessary to IB both 5A and 5B? Sorry for the stupid question that's probably obvious to everyone else. For the record I practised this by going into training and recording Ragna doing 5A into 5B and I did use Inferno Divider after, but I thought the invincibility would allow him to avoid being grabbed. Then I just did 5A, 5B, 5C instead.
Mike Z Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 What that means is if you IB 5A and he does 5B after, you can 360A him before he touches you with the 5B.
Ravage C Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 What that means is if you IB 5A and he does 5B after, you can 360A him before he touches you with the 5B. Thanks for clearing that up
Skye Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 You can normal block Arakune 6a and 360 him anyway you please before he 5ds, that includes 720. It's even on block and 5D has like 17f start up, the better Arakunes will mix it up though. Knowing this, I know I do.
OrionXElite Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 You can normal block Arakune 6a and 360 him anyway you please before he 5ds, that includes 720. It's even on block and 5D has like 17f start up, the better Arakunes will mix it up though. Knowing this, I know I do. Really?? But since it gatlings, that shouldn't work should it?? 6A is a lvl3 which is 16f of blockstun and if it gatlings into 5D and its 17f startup, that would only leave a 1f gap right?? So that would mean only 720 would work unless it was an IB. I think I'm reading the frame data right but correct me if I'm wrong please.
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