[CS1] Iron Tager Instant Block 360/720 Guide

[Skye]

Really?? But since it gatlings, that shouldn't work should it?? 6A is a lvl3 which is 16f of blockstun and if it gatlings into 5D and its 17f startup, that would only leave a 1f gap right?? So that would mean only 720 would work unless it was an IB.

I think I'm reading the frame data right but correct me if I'm wrong please.

*checks*

Hee hee :p

Looks like you're right. Backdash 360 should work fine though.

[Isorropia]

Backdash 360 will sometimes fail due to range - backdash 6A will work and will give more heat as well. But don't IB backdash, you might do it too early and get caught by the last few frames of 5D. >.>

It should however be noted that Arakune's 6A can be jump canceled, and can gatling into 2B which is airtight on IB and is a low.

[Heroic_Legacy]

can gatling into 2B which is airtight on IB and is a low.

There's a reason 6A 2B isn't listed. If it's airtight it isn't there. I should've added them, but it's a little late to do that now.

[Coopa]

Wish me good luck. I'm going to be going through most of these to prepare for the tourney tomorrow. Rematch against Spirit Juice, I think.

[Ayumu Gardevoir]

Well, I had some free time tonight, and thought I'd do something productive. If you guys don't mind a simpleton from Colorado doing SoCal work (or if you haven't done it already) I decided to do stuff for the Makoto and Valk sections. I have a feeling I missed some for each, but here's what I came out with.

Makoto

Note: 5C(1) and 5C(2) should be the same in terms of block stun.

360A

5A 5B

5A 5C

5A 6A

5A 6C

5A 2B

5A 2C (360B)

5A 5D (360B)

5A 2D (360B)

5A 3C (360B)

2A 5B

2A 5C

2A 6A

2A 2B

2A 2C (360B)

2A 5D (360B)

2A 2D (360B)

2A 3C (360B)

5B 6C

5B 2C (360B)

5B 5D (360B)

5B 2D (360B)

5B 3C (360B)

5C 6B

5C 5D (360B)

720

2A 2A

Valkenhayn

5A 5B

5A 5C

5A 2C

5A 3C

5A 6B (360B)

5B 5C

5B 6B

2A 2B

2A 2C

2A 5C

2B 2C

2B 5C

2B 6B

2C 6B

720

5A 2A

5B 2C

5B 3C

6B(1) 5C

6B(2) 5C

2A 5B

2A 3C

2B 3C

[Coopa]

Okay, I didn't get my rematch against Spirit Juice because I fucking suck, but here's what I got from reading this guide. Here's my money match against Dacid's Ragna so you can see my attempts at ib punishing or trying a read:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/10250532

My only tip for ibing 2b is to just memorize the blockstring and then buffer a 360. If you see it and you flash press B. If you have meter, do one more 360 and hit c.

[Osuna]

Okay, I didn't get my rematch against Spirit Juice because I fucking suck, but here's what I got from reading this guide. Here's my money match against Dacid's Ragna so you can see my attempts at ib punishing or trying a read:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/10250532

My only tip for ibing 2b is to just memorize the blockstring and then buffer a 360. If you see it and you flash press B. If you have meter, do one more 360 and hit c.

If you have meter, you don't have to IB. If you know it's coming in a blockstring you can just 720 it.

[a Lisianthus]

2b is only -2 on regular block, and 2b->gh on regular block would just be airborne before getb starts up afaik. 2b is only free on ib.

the list is nice, but a lot of it doesn't seem practical.

[Osuna]

2b is only -2 on regular block, and 2b->gh on regular block would just be airborne before getb starts up afaik. 2b is only free on ib.

the list is nice, but a lot of it doesn't seem practical.

Well, it's minus 5, but yeah gauntlet hades would be air born in time. As far as I understand the frame data though, it should still work against 360B too.

I mean After IB and the loss of recovery from the cancel they are at plus 6 and gauntlet hades is airborn at 12, with 6 frames of start up that would put us at one frame too slow if they Really went for it.

If they looked to hitconfirm it or do a mindless blockstring I'm pretty sure 720 would still catch them, unless they can hit confirm in 3 frames or less. But whatever

On this list, I've been thinking this a long time, but didn't want to seem ungrateful, but Now I'm really really tired.

I can't help but think this is the least practical version of an IB guide one could imagine. A lot of these gaps listed are just plain silly (5A>overhead) or not even blockstrings, cluttering the lists, there's no mention of specials or other options you could run into. Just a bunch of gatlings regardless of whether you will ever see them. The way it's presented leaves out some very useful information and creates occasionally misleading information.

[A.X.I.S.]

most special moves are unsafe so its already a fact that if you IB it you can punish it.

doesn't mean that your gonna always be close enough to though.

for example you can't punish the second hit of renka unless haku links into another special.

bad example but still an example.

[a Lisianthus]

here is the incomplete hazama version of this thread if you want some sort of example..

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?9915-Hazama-instant-block-into-punish-thread.

of course 360a is too slow to be compared to abusing invuln with houtenjin, and 360b has no invuln.. so you'll have to settle for 720c for most of those situations

[Soriphen]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who hates Tager mirrors. Nothing is more annoying than being beat by your own shennanigans . Anywho, good work...I gotta practice more IB to 360/720.

[Azzal]

Hy. First of all, thanx for the guide.

I'm training lately trying to IB 360/720 a lot of blockstrings.

But I often miss it, I think I suck at the exe.

What is the exact manipulation you're using? Especially for the IB 720, I mean IB on reaction than the whole 720 manipulation seems a bit hard to do, do you spin the stick hoping an ib than press C?

I need advices.

[Heroic_Legacy]

What is the exact manipulation you're using? Especially for the IB 720, I mean IB on reaction than the whole 720 manipulation seems a bit hard to do

I just confirm the IB then spin the stick real fast. I'm decent at confirming it but some of the 720s I'm aware are just stupid hard. Even some of them I can barely spin fast enough to do it consistently.

If using a stick the best advice I can give is try to not abuse the gate and try spinning without it. Just learn where the catch (The spot where the direction is recognized) on your stick and practice on getting precise rather than mashing wildly on the gate until it decides to break. =/

If on pad, 720s should just not be too hard on DPad or Analog stick. So I can't see why pad 720s could be hard. But then I can't play on pad anymore so that has nothing to do with it.

[Azzal]

I use a stick. What is a "gate" anyway"?

Well I think one of my problem is that I always begin the 360/720 with 632 etc, clockwise. But when I ib when I'm the left player, so pressing 4, I think that I should begin with 4 rather than 6, so the 360/720 will come out faster.

I trained doing 360b ibeing on the Ragna's 2b, but I often do it to slow, resulting in a counterhit, or a fatal 2C, which sucks.

[evilben]

a gate on a stick is a piece of plastic in the bottom of it that restricts the sticks movements. if you are using a JP stick, you more than likely have a square gate (if you go to a diagonal you will catch a corner), if you are using a US stick, you more than likely have a circle gate (you can spin the thing 360 and it will be a smooth ride). there are also octagonal gates that you can get for a jp stick if you really want one.

(heres a picture or one)

joystick gate

you should get comfortable doing 360s from any position if you really want to capitalize on them, if nothing else just go to training mode and practice practice practice those "what!?"s

Edited October 27, 2010 by evilben

[OrionXElite]

Don't know if anyone else caught this, but on Bang, you can IB 360A in between 2A>2A. 9 Frames of blockstun with his 8 frame 2A startup means there is a 4 frame gap in between them. Tested it as well. If you IB 2A, you can 360A ANY follow up he uses.

[Coopa]

Don't know if anyone else caught this, but on Bang, you can IB 360A in between 2A>2A. 9 Frames of blockstun with his 8 frame 2A startup means there is a 4 frame gap in between them. Tested it as well. If you IB 2A, you can 360A ANY follow up he uses.

I can't imagine how hard it would be to do that.

[Leo7]

It's hard, but it's one of your only consistent punishes against Bang.

Just go into training mode and practice IB punishing the 2A over and over again. I admit though, I have a lot of trouble IB-ing Bang's 2A's as well.

[Heroic_Legacy]

Completely forgot Bang had 2A double action. >.> Haven't played against Bang but three times in CS. Ever.

[Heroic_Legacy]

Hah. I thought you guys deleted my thread. Nice to see it stickied. I'll start finishing it this week.

[mAc Chaos]

Damn, why the hell would anyone delete it :P

[Heroic_Legacy]

Useless thread is useless for CS2.

When CS2 drops I'll go through the same shit and pray that IB'ing is still viable.

If not, I'll probably end up having to learn the game/tager instead of just learning how to IB punish.

[Mike Z]

I'm willing to bet they didn't screw with the majority of chains on this list...so with the CS2 IB change, this pretty much changes IB 360A holes to IB 720 holes, no?

[Heroic_Legacy]

And IB 360A is required if the opponent does something like

Ragna: 5A 5D

Fuck I'm gonna miss IB 360A'ing Ragna in the middle of 5D. It was funny. Q_Q