Spark Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 I think 6A has 10% repeat, but the videos with it being used twice are low quality so the numbers are hard to make out.
Schneider-X Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 But I can confirm that 5C, 1 hit renka, kishu, slightly charged 6C, 6A, 2C, HJ2A, j2C, 2C, j2A, air dash, j2A, jC, 5C, 3C works perfectly well and I think I also got the same kind of combo from tsubaki, slightly charged 6C, 6A, etc... Can you still do two loops of the 2C, j.2A, j.2C corner combo with 6A in the combo? Also can you confirm if any of these changes in previous loketests stayed? Some of it is known, but I got it from the general change thread and wanted some confirmation for these points, like 4[C] chaining to Renka. Yukikaze - Faster startup, easier to follow up on hit 4C - Can now be charged. On full charge, does large damage and chains to Renka Kishuu - Travel distance slightly increased, now projectile and body invulnerable after a certain number of frames Shippu - Comes out faster, but follow-ups deal less damage, also did the raw damage change? 6B - No longer breaks a primer
Dream Maker Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) With or without IB'ing the chain first? Because from what I remember, I've never seen ragna AA hazama after a follow up from his chain. However, that may be different if the chain is IB'ed, but I've rarely seen that. Though I don't doubt what you're saying, only the circumstances around it, I haven't seen anyone AA hazama's chain follow ups. If you could easily AA his follow ups the threat of his chains would be very minimal. It was with IB if I remember well. Anyway on many occasions it felt like I had enough time to 6A him but I ended up being beaten in the end. Anyway I remember being able in previous versions to 5A Hazama out of this on some occasions (not all the time by far, but depending on timing from Hazama's part, IB or not, etc it was possible). The fact that I had poor success with 6A so far leads me to think that new 6A's invincibility is kinda slow to come out. Or the move must have somehow a weakness against deep jump ins I dunno. It works very well on many other situations though particularly against IADs but you have to anticipate a bit. It's definitely not as easy to use as Ragna's. Can you still do two loops of the 2C, j.2A, j.2C corner combo with 6A in the combo? Also can you confirm if any of these changes in previous loketests stayed? Some of it is known, but I got it from the general change thread and wanted some confirmation for these points, like 4[C] chaining to Renka. Yukikaze - Faster startup, easier to follow up on hit 4C - Can now be charged. On full charge, does large damage and chains to Renka Kishuu - Travel distance slightly increased, now projectile and body invulnerable after a certain number of frames Shippu - Comes out faster, but follow-ups deal less damage, also did the raw damage change? 6B - No longer breaks a primer Double 2C/j2A/j2C loops : I don't know, I haven't tried. Actually I wasn't really successful at these on the previous version already but next time I go playing I'll try. Yukikaze : didn't use it at all for now so I can't say. Full charge 4C : damage on full charge is indeed big but charge time makes it hard to use at all. Fully charged it gives frame advantage on block, long hitstun on hit and wallbounce on air hit. If by chain you mean cancel, I don't think you can chain it into renka. Fully charged the move is not cancellable be it on hit or on block however its massive hit stun allows you to do pretty much anything you want afterwards (including renka of course). Kishuu : travel distance seemed indeed a bit larger to me, I dunno about invicibility changes though I'll have to try that out. Shippu : it's way faster yes, can even connect from 2A for any damages changes I didn't notice, I don't use it except sometimes for combo finishers to be honest and I didn't notice anything too mindblowing with such a use. 6B : I dunno for the primer didn't pay attention but I'll check next time. Edited October 17, 2011 by Dream Maker
Spark Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Proration thread updated. 236B(2) P2 down to .55 from .65.
kotokot Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 why don't hakumens have thread with mixups/safejumps/safe oki? I remember some stuff from combovideos like safejump in corner, iad hotaru crossup and some fuzzyguard mixups, but can't find this now and some stuff is char specific(
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Can you still do two loops of the 2C, j.2A, j.2C corner combo with 6A in the combo? I think I've seen that in one of the videos posted. I THINK, so if you don't see it, don't come to slit my throat. 4C - Can now be charged. On full charge, does large damage and chains to Renka PFARMY did it on a cpu litchi in one of the videos. Kishuu - Travel distance slightly increased, now projectile and body invulnerable after a certain number of frames You can see that in one of the videos as well. Shippu - Comes out faster, but follow-ups deal less damage, also did the raw damage change? In a video against a valkenhayn, shippu came out fast enough that a hakumen was able to wake up and punish wolf form 5a. It was against a blue valkenhayn if I remember correctly. why don't hakumens have thread with mixups/safejumps/safe oki? I remember some stuff from combovideos like safejump in corner, iad hotaru crossup and some fuzzyguard mixups, but can't find this now and some stuff is char specific( I you feel there should be one, message Spark (to get the consent for it) and make it. That's the procedure for many of the threads here.
Sophisticat Posted October 17, 2011 Author Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) 6a proration is .85 p1, and .89 p2. The proration's fine if they didn't change it going into CSEX. EDIT: I should have just checked Spark's new proration data thread instead. ._.; Yes, p values are the same, and there is .1 repeat proration. However, repeat p should be meaningless to this discussion as 2x 6a makes any combo unusable. We've clearly seen combos with 6a in the middle being used, so it works. Edited October 17, 2011 by Sophisticat
Schneider-X Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Thanks BladeOfJustice7, I know I've seen some aspects of those changes confirmed but I'm not sure about the whole thing "Does kishuu have the projectile invincibility." Also I'm not going to lash out at a canadian hakumen player, heh. In a video against a valkenhayn, shippu came out fast enough that a hakumen was able to wake up and punish wolf form 5a. It was against a blue valkenhayn if I remember correctly. I remember seeing that video, it is indeed faster with potentially better invincibility frames, but I'm more curious about its raw damage since I often use it to bait bursts after counters. Yes, p values are the same, and there is .1 repeat proration. However, repeat p should be meaningless to this discussion as 2x 6a makes any combo unusable. We've clearly seen combos with 6a in the middle being used, so it works. Ok that's good since the math works out for it.
Moblin Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 That's why that haku's combo dropped after the second 6a that I saw. Cool. Also can anyone link that vid with the wake-up shippu?
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Nico version: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15881304 Too lazy/busy to find the youtube version of this.
Moblin Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 (edited) That's okay, I gotz the redirectorz. Thanks! The shippu was cool, but I also noticed something else. The combo the haku did around 9:45 in that vid would have been a no-brainer 3 loop combo in CS2, but he only did 2 loops. Yet it still did a very substantial amount of damage. It makes me wonder if it's possible to do 3 loops in a lot of combos anymore. Has anyone seen a haku do 3 loops in a corner combo yet? I think I've seen it maybe once immediately after a FC hotaru, but that's it. Edited October 17, 2011 by Moblin
itsme Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 I'm probably just over thinking this but Kishuu still doesn't go through Nirvana right; it probably does go through her moves but not herself?
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 I'm probably just over thinking this but Kishuu still doesn't go through Nirvana right; it probably does go through her moves but not herself? The one video of Hakumen v.s Relius, the hakumen player reacted to Ignis' attack from behind with kishuu. So that's a yes, but it'll depend on what the attack is. Like for instance you'll have a hard time with her Nirvana's arm spinning move and where she slams her fist down. But kishuu is NOT teleport, so you can't dash through her to carl.
Dream Maker Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 (edited) Just back from playing, 6B still breaks 1 primer so no change on that. For the other things I could not try because of competition, but I don't feel like using just one 6a at the beginning of a combo really changes anything regarding proration. By the way here is a pretty comprehensive list of changes on a japanese hakumen wiki : http://www14.atwiki.jp/hakumenmatome/pages/130.html I'll translate that directly so that everybody can understand. A : damage 350→400 2A : damage 300→350 2C : damage 950→1050 4C : Became chargeable 6A : Head invicible attribute added, frame advantage halved on block ? Makes float further on air hit, wall bound added on air hit, repeat proration 10% JA : P2 84%→89% JB : untechable time increased on air hit, gatling to j2A added. JD : no CH state anymore during lag on landing、damage 1600→2000 Throw : special cancel possible, wallbound smaller Back throw : special cancel possible, wallbound smaller Guren : 10% repeat proration Kishuu : travel distance increased, head, body and projectile attribute invincibility added from frame 5 Renka : 2nd hit wallbounces, 2nd hit proration went from 65% to 55% ? Hotaru : Does not remove primer anymore, P1 down from 90% to 70% ? Shippu : Startup is faster (can combo from 2A)、guaranteed minimum damage 800→1000 According to this no change on yukikaze. Forgot about cooldown info : cooldown on all moves of 2 magatama or more (except distortion drives) is halved from 180 frames to 90 frames. Edited October 18, 2011 by Dream Maker
Schneider-X Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 Cool, thanks for translating the info for us Dream Maker, its much appreciated.
itsme Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 cooldown on all moves of 2 magatama or more (except distortion drives) is halved from 180 frames to 90 frames. (except distortion drives) I guess I can deal with this.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 It would be dumb if supers didn't have a cool down.
mjting Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Is the 6A reduction in plus frames on block confirmed? if it is, that's bad news
Dream Maker Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 If true that would mean that frame advantage is down to +2 or +1 instead of +3, I didn't notice much difference though and I think that would only be a minor nerf. Advantage on block is always good anyway and Hakumen still got owned on 6A IB before.
itsme Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 I just assumed the 90 frame buff went for everything including the supers.
GenoWhirl Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 So you guys be liking dat Renka (1) > Kishuu > Dash > 2C > j.B > j.2A > Air Dash > j.A > j.B > 2C > j.2A > blah blah?
IndigoNovember Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 So you guys be liking dat Renka (1) > Kishuu > Dash > 2C > j.B > j.2A > Air Dash > j.A > j.B > 2C > j.2A > blah blah? It's like they took two of our old combos and put it into one, marvelous. That delay Air Dash was funny.
Sophisticat Posted October 23, 2011 Author Posted October 23, 2011 What I like most about it is that it still does 3k off a 2a. Hell yeah.
WolfCrimson Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 I don't see any Hakus doing the standard dustloop anymore, though. Is it obsolete now, with better combos instead?
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