BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 ...So apparently there is a corner loop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=z5En2d2jBjw#t=520s I didn't even know this was possible.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Once you get it, I think CSEX Haks' execution is the easiest of any iteration. CS2 being the hardest, of course. I think he's easier because we played him for so long, CT hakumen is truly mind numbingly easy i.e grab>guren>6c>shippu, and *starter*>kishuu/enma>j2c>2c>j2c>AD>j2c He's execution and "lack of autopilot" playstyle (which is usually in top tiers) didn't encourage tier list players to gravitate towards him. If you remember in early jp vids, there were Hakumen players who were playing him because he's "s", but they were all ass since you need to dedicate time to play him, something which is also uncommon in "top tiers". Which is why they all gravitated towards Ragna (not that they faired very well with him either), since Valkenhayn I would say is even harder than Hakumen to play effectively with. I'm content with the way he plays, just not content with BB's FG engine at the moment and find it bland, Hakumen himself is very difficult to balance, but you need to give ArcSys credit for completely revamping this character and still allowing him to be relevant at high level play. He could've been completely ass in this version of the game. It's funny how the other 6 Heroes (except Plat) have remained as one of the best characters in each game. And there is such thing as "hard combos" there's a reason why we have terms such as "bnb's", it's because you have go to simple combos that anyone can pick up with enough effort, like Hakumen's grab combos. HIs typical full screen corner carry combos however are intermediary, and if you invest in the combos that Chin and A92 were doing at the end of CSEX, you'll know they are more advanced since his typical bnb's. also do not "man" me
BladeOfJustice7 Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) CT Hakumen was hardest to play imo. Get at me. Obviously, he was incomplete and no one really plays like him in FG's so there's no playstyle reference. But I said his combos were easy, not that playing him was autopilot. Also interesting 4BC corner combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=z5En2d2jBjw#t=321s EDIT2: This Hakumen player in the video is pretty sick, that crossup potential? Edited April 22, 2013 by BladeOfJustice7
BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Didn't Hakumen lack like...half the shit he has now? I heard he didn't even have 4C.
LegendaryRath Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 ...So apparently there is a corner loop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=z5En2d2jBjw#t=520s I didn't even know this was possible. I saw several hakemens do that when the game was fairly new but they stopped soon after. Once the midscreen loop was found, everyone just started using that in the corner instead. It's a shame because I would like to argue that the corner loop would do extra damage but unfortunately I cant without ever playing the game myself. My fingers are crossed that some more optimal, better looking combos are found. I was excited to play Haku again in CP, but he looks boring now that he has 1 bnb off any starter. Then again, renka (1) > Kishuu in EX is what you would do pretty much 100% of the time, but at least you could follow several different paths and do a corner only combo, all of which were fun and cool to me.
Sophisticat Posted April 22, 2013 Author Posted April 22, 2013 Didn't Hakumen lack like...half the shit he has now? I heard he didn't even have 4C. Cons: - No 4c, no j.C, lesser j.B. - His C moves were slower. - No corner knockdown. - No Void - Nothing to be done vs. zoners. Nu was lulz. Turtle to 8 stars -> get in, 5k dmg in 2 hits -> Nu burst -> do it again -> dead Nu. Pros: - His burst dmg was higher. Spending more stars meant something. - You could combo off 6c CH. RIP Sophisticat 2009-11, pioneer of CT 6c CH combos. - 5D -> Shippu was lulz 5k. - 6a was gdlk.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Nolan forgot to add all sword normals were extremely slow AND punishable on block, whether it was IB'ed or not.
itsme Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 I wish 6B was still special cancel able but I love the new CH 6B > 5C too. Also, CH throw teching glitch making our drives grab resistant was neat too.
LegendaryRath Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 I think CH 6B/3C > 5C is one of the greatest buffs he received in CP.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 I wish 6B was still special cancel able but I love the new CH 6B > 5C too. I think CH 6B/3C > 5C is one of the greatest buffs he received in CP. yes, yes it is. 6bCH>OD>hold that shit, is something I'm really looking forward to. Also, CH throw teching glitch making our drives grab resistant was neat too. What?
itsme Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) CT had this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJI02Q3My4I Also, that should be 6B/3C CH > 5C > OD > hold that shit. Just pointing it out now that the 5C is crucial before the OD or else you're not going to enjoy accidentally RCing and looking dumb after the 6B CH and you probably can't connect the combo unless if you pick it up with Renka or 2B if you don't do 5C>OD>5C>rape. Edited April 23, 2013 by itsme
BladeOfJustice7 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 I was hoping you didn't have to do 5c since they'll most likely burst before OD into "hold that shit". That's saddening Still looking forward to that though since I often catch people with CH6b.
itsme Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 Actually, checking the frame data, it might be possible to do 6B/3C CH > OD > 5C to combo. I guess we don't see much of the Japanese players doing it since doing the 5C before prevents them from accidentally RCing or making a tight confirm but it would lengthen the OD time by double, I guess it's something we can research once we get our hands on CP.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 Which will be officially be at the end of 2013 if not 2014 (for NA consoles). Good shit ArcSys. But yes I love his new combo options in CP.
Sophisticat Posted April 23, 2013 Author Posted April 23, 2013 Nolan forgot to add all sword normals were extremely slow AND punishable on block, whether it was IB'ed or not. Oh yeah, that too. Also forgot to add that special cancel roll tech was really beneficial to Haku, lol.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 I saw several hakemens do that when the game was fairly new but they stopped soon after. Once the midscreen loop was found, everyone just started using that in the corner instead. It's a shame because I would like to argue that the corner loop would do extra damage but unfortunately I cant without ever playing the game myself. My fingers are crossed that some more optimal, better looking combos are found. I was excited to play Haku again in CP, but he looks boring now that he has 1 bnb off any starter. Then again, renka (1) > Kishuu in EX is what you would do pretty much 100% of the time, but at least you could follow several different paths and do a corner only combo, all of which were fun and cool to me. That loops seems somewhat situational considering it registered as an invalid combo, but it definitely does more damage.
LegendaryRath Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 That loops seems somewhat situational considering it registered as an invalid combo, but it definitely does more damage. The corner loop itself didn't drop. You can see that the second hit (zantetsu) is what shouldn't have connected.
psycofang2 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 Thaaat's better. Also, within an act of irony, I actually spelt your name wrong within that sentence. Or right, seeing as that's actually how you spell "psycho" change that too plz. My name is spelled like this on purpose grammar nazi. i wont explain why it is, but it is. i was not paying too much scrutiny to netplay because netplay primarily my basis for saying that was the amount of Hakumen players in CSE in jp vids did not increase much (many of the CS2 ones disappeared from videos until CP,) hakumen players do not show up at a lot of majors, and many scenes i am familiar with do not have one (i am the only hakumen main in our scene) either way even though there's no data or anything, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that not a huge % of BB's playerbase is hakumen players compared to other character representation (especially rushdown/good mixup characters) jp forums may have some actual information on representation but i do not know how to find these things Id say ask either KF or Tokkan since they visit there often. a lot of hakumen players will justify his CP status, so it wasn't terribly amusing (and i think it is important to acknowledge when something is imbalanced rather than play favorites, which i have seen a lot of in response to the large amount of CP hakumen complaints, a lot of which are legitimate even if a little whiny. mainly this was my point in posting all this as it's aggravating) also do not "man" me No ones REALLY actually justifying his CP status seriously, no ones arguing about his damage output or meter gain, its pretty obvious what it is. Its when we have an opposing opinion is when everyone saying hakumen is dumb gets bent out of shape falling over themselves to prove "hes dumb" when "dumb" means a many things from person to person. "dumb" could equate to strong, or braindead in a single word. thats why they argue. so yeah humanoid it was a joke. a combo does not just stop being difficult just because you can perform it in a controlled environment. if it was as easy as you make it out to be, all the advanced combos would have been staples of JP hakumen gameplay back in CS2, which they definitely were not. they appeared occasionally by some of the better hakumen players, and even then dropping them was a thing that happened not infrequently The Combo DOEs stop being hard once you understand how the combo works, once you've done it enough times it becomes second nature. much like makotos drive or litchis combos or carl. once you've done it enough it becomes engrained into your mind so that once you land the combo your muscle memory takes over, you arent overthinking your spacing, the meter you have, if everything matches up you WILL remember how to do it regarless of if its training mode or a real match. but thats my OPINION so... also i dont really go off jp matches since they try to stay safe for a lot of them, you rarely ever saw 6D mugen combos until one of these players finally stopped giving a damn and just went for it, same with the cs2 combos barely any went for them, not just because its hard but because if they dropped it they'd be put into a bad position. The ones that WENT for it even showed an EASIER variant of the combo. this is why i say a combo stops being hard after enough practice. and the 3c combos were extremely rewarding for that reason, but they weren't the only ones that were high damaging and meter efficient (though nothing beats 3k+ for 1 star really, other than meterless options of course.) a lot of hakumen's midscreen bnbs such as double gurren combos were definitely not the most star efficient whereas most of the advanced midscreen carry combos were pretty good about returning close to 1k damage per star Thats the staple we all go off of 1 star = 1k if you start getting deminishing returns from damage and meter gain its probably not optimal. Probably. regardless, obviously my statement about CS2 is an opinion since obviously someone who did not enjoy struggling through CS2 matchups would most likely disagree with "cs2 was the most fun" statement But no ones been disagreeing with you, CS2 WAS fun but its gone now, much like how i can say with pure honesty CT was by far more fun for me, but thats that its gone and unless you want to return to CS2 to gain your fullfillment i dont understand repeating CS2was more fun, no ones disagreeing with you except they're kind of the point i was making to begin with? you said he can get 3k off the right starter (nothing about how much meter) but he can get 3k off pretty much any starter with 3 stars, not sure what was confusing about that response I was going off in general since im not optomistic enough to land anything above 5B mid fight unless i anti air someone with 5C i push all the damage and meter gain down to the lowest most possible starter 5A/B and 2A/B. even in vids thats what im seeing but if we were to talk about POTENTIAL combo damage and meter gain yeah he gets well above 3k. but heres my example of the renka combo i do in a real match : 2A>Renka (2)>IAD>JB>JA>5C>2C>9JB>J2A>ad>J2A>JC hits close to 2.8 iirc and gives back 1.5 but im not at home to check. i rather don't see what 2 star combos have to do with it, it's not like 3 star combos midscreen are a rare ocurrance. the 3 star combos are the staples and (renka2) is a 2 star option--and i actually do not know if renka (2) has more corner carry or damage than enma > j.2a > AD j.B > j.A etc., which is one i have been using lately Less use, more gain. for example would you use a 3rd star jut to gain an extra 100-300 damage? or use 2 stars and get 3k and crazy corner carry? thats what im getting at. furthermore it's beside my original point that the midscreen relaunch combos of CSE and CP that prorate very well have potential that isn't significantly less than his corner combos. of course he can't do tsubaki 6C or renka 6C, but it's still pretty excellent for midscreen standards You said he can do his corner combos mid screen unless you ment in CP then id agree, if you mean in CSE then no i disagree. you mentioned CP and overall i had a hard time following what exactly you meant with that response as a whole regardless see above for a more clear explanation of what i meant it read as "with the right starter he can break 7k" then listed tsubaki which looked like said right starter, so that's how i interpretted it (ie as a general statement about his corner damage) more than likely you can get 7k in under 8 stars with tsubaki, it's not like it prorates like zantetsu does in CSE stuff.
psycofang2 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 this haku does some weird stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5En2d2jBjw&feature=youtu.be#t=5m19s
BladeOfJustice7 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 this haku does some weird stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5En2d2jBjw&feature=youtu.be#t=5m19s ... Obviously, he was incomplete and no one really plays like him in FG's so there's no playstyle reference. But I said his combos were easy, not that playing him was autopilot. Also interesting 4BC corner combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=z5En2d2jBjw#t=321s EDIT2: This Hakumen player in the video is pretty sick, that crossup potential? ^Glad to know my posts typically go ignored by you.
psycofang2 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 ... ^Glad to know my posts typically go ignored by you. didnt even see that. my bad. i was too busy having an extensive discussion with dioxide did someone say something hes like a tangible ghost.
InWithTheAshes Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 My name is spelled like this on purpose grammar nazi. OH, SO NOW WE'RE GOING TO START CALLING NAMES ARE WE? I WAS GOING TO BE NICE AND NOT REVEAL THAT REFERRING TOWARDS SOMETHING WITH "ANY", THEN REFERRING TOWARDS THE SAME SUBJECT WITH "IS" AND "HEATHEN" BREAKS THE CONSISTENCY OF SAID SUBJECT BEING PLURAL/SINGULAR, BUT I SUPPOSE YOU JUST WANTED TO PLAY SMART HUH? HUH? I actually didn't notice this when I first looked at it. I am ashaaaaamed.
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