[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[mAc Chaos]

That video was awesome. That j.A was amazing. Same with that j.D. And that 5C. You know which ones I'm talking about.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I know, the reads were too real.

[Spark]

Yeah that was the meaty set up. Seems to work as long as they're a bit below you when you do Agito.

[Schneider-X]

I don't quite see the advantage between using 5A > super jump late j.B > j.2A > dj > j.2C > Agito over without the super jump as j.2C still blue beats if they don't tech and the predominant thing determining the safe jump is the timing of the falling j.2C which can also be done with the original one. 

 

Is it because that its a safe jump if the opponent techs ASAP and has to block as opposed to the normal height? Both can easily be beat by delay techs though.  Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Spark]

Normal combo > Agito > falling j.2C: Where they're about the same height as you when you do Agito

- Whiffs if they emergency tech the Agito.

- If they don't tech Agito they'll eat the j.2C > 3C follow up.

Normal combo w/ super jump > Agito > falling j.2C: Where they're under you

- The j.2C is meaty if they emergency tech the Agito.

- They have enough time to forward roll/quick get up, but j.2C will hit them and reset the combo.

- (Midscreen) They can escape by back rolling.

- (Corner) They back roll the j.2C, but you can still catch them when you land.

- If they just don't tech you still get j.2C > 3C follow up.

So it has it's upsides and downsides over the old combo.

[Seigi]

is there any option select like jumpin agito > falling j.2C input Gurren/2A?

[Schneider-X]

Thanks for the explanation Spark.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea I tested it last night, the opponent can only escape through backrolls, otherwise they're forced to block the J.2C.

 

 

 

EDIT: Also, is it just me or do people really like to burst in the middle of the BnB a lot? 

[Moblin]

That is pretty good, it seems like Hakumen has no meterless option to punish backrolls which is unfortunate.  But if you call it out you can always late meaty Gurren/Zantetsu to catch rolls.

 

 

@BlackYakuzu94  It's not just you.  I have like 300 more damage before this loop ends, why do you want to burst it?  Because you're bored and that loop is lame?  oh ok.

 

Although I think Hakumen's loop is one of the most burst-baitable BnBs in the game.

[BlackYakuzu94]

That's precisely why I don't get why people do it. I've caught so many people out by just blocking after the first J.2A. Although it amuses me that Hakumen has some of the easiest ways to react to a burst. 

 

 

They'll either burst on the BnB, a CH 3C, or a CH Enma.

[Kriegdrache]

I often find that people either burst at the end of a bnb, when you hit them with a 5c starter (then you just command dash through the burst) or on raw ass zantetsus.

 

My friend would often burst when I'd do throw > CT because he didnt wanna take an ez 3.5k to the face, so I can respect that.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Option select throw to the rescue: Throw>6C>Shippu. Never fails :V

[Kriegdrache]

Yeah I do that quite a bit too but I love CT too much  It was mainly in the early days where I'd do throw > CT > stuff.

[Raziul]

Time to add whoever made Hakumen challenge number 28 to my list of BB creators I need to punch as hard as possible if I ever meet them in real life. Right next to the asshole who made unlimited hazama's AI.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I've officially become the Mac of my group of friends; I've done TRM setups, I've blocked bursts.....all without even playing seriously. Such is the life of the Hakumen player.

[Kriegdrache]

Time to add whoever made Hakumen challenge number 28 to my list of BB creators I need to punch as hard as possible if I ever meet them in real life. Right next to the asshole who made unlimited hazama's AI.

 

That was the challenge that gave me the most troubles as I couldn't rly do loops at the time, but it helped me get them down in the end. Also, why was it so hard and challenge 29 so piss easy? It's like they thought hop hotaru > tsubaki into OD was hard or something.

[WolfCrimson]

Has anyone ever discussed ending combos with hop agito in here? I found that it's amazing for oki mixup, you can choose between land> 2B > combo, or airdash > jB > combo, or land> CT, or land throw, or land > overhead, and if you're suspecting a reversal just land> block. Ofcourse any option where landing is involved after hop agito you gotta do a whiff jB (it will always whiff even if you input it at the earliest possible moment) so as to prevent delay tech.

[Moblin]

We've discussed ending combos with 5a > j.B > Agito, but not hop agito.

 

But I'm not sure how one would even end a combo with hop agito, or 66 Agito so I'm pretty sure you're referring to my previous example?

 

 

I've made a few posts about it, it's very very good especially if your opponent likes to tech as soon as possible.  If they delay tech it ruins the airdash mixup you can get out of it, which has gotten me quite a lot of damage in tough situations.

 

You've pretty much got the gist of its advantages, it sounds like.  My favorite thing to do is 5a, j.B > Agito, airdash in on their tech with j.B, j.a, (land) 2b > Enma or other confirm for around 2kish.  It's a sneaky way to get some damage in if you just need a little bit more.   

 

You can also airdash j.B, overdrive cancel, j.B, (land) Renka(1) > Zantetsu > other overdrive stuff

[Raziul]

That was the challenge that gave me the most troubles as I couldn't rly do loops at the time, but it helped me get them down in the end. Also, why was it so hard and challenge 29 so piss easy? It's like they thought hop hotaru > tsubaki into OD was hard or something.

 

It's all the ridiculous links in that combo. You have the j.2C's to time, the 5A > j.2A's have to be perfect, then the 5A > j.B at the end has to pretty much be buffered or they'll tech out if you're one frame too slow. I actually got all the way to the agito ender twice but it turns out my controller is going to crap and wouldn't let me do agito. Oh the rage. I think what makes me hate this challenge so much is the knowledge that this combo is completely idiotic. You can do Renka (1) > 2C with out the OD cancel and two loops, and not only is it like 3x easier, it does more damage too.

[mAc Chaos]

I've messed with hop Agito before for throw mixup experiments.

You need a CH, but you can do stuff like hop Agito CH > 2A > 5A > jB > j2A > j2C > Agito.

Not using it as a combo ender though.

[WolfCrimson]

I am talking about hop agito (66 214A) as an ender. A lot of combos can be modified to make it so that you can end it with hop agito, but you're gonna be spending 1 extra star because it'll need gurren, and sometimes be getting less damage than its original variation. A basic example of a combo with hop agito with forward throw starter:

 

(4) F. Throw> CT > 6A > 6B > 5A > Gurren > hop > agito

 

Or if you're trying to conserve stars

 

(1) F. Throw > hop > agito

 

A combo with 5B/5C starter:

 

(4) 5B/5C > kishuu > enma > fj2C > delay 5B > j2A > fj2C > 5A > j2A > fj2C > 5A > gurren > hop > agito

 

Need to delay the 5B after the first j2C right, otherwise this combo won't work.

 

Another combo with 5B/5C:

 

5B/5C > renka > hop > 5A > 5B > j2A > fj2C > 5A > gurren > hop > agito

 

Delay the first 5A a bit.

[mAc Chaos]

How would you do airdash j.B after landing hop Agito as the ender? You'd be right next to them.

[WolfCrimson]

As soon as agito's animation ends, but before you land, you can airdash.

[Moblin]

That's actually pretty awesome and crazy lol.   I'll definitely want to test this, it's something I've never thought about.  Nice post.

 

 

 

edit:  So after trying it I like it a lot, but I'm concerned as to your frame advantage after you land next to them with j.B while they emergency tech.  It seems like if they 5a'd it would trade or clash with haku's 2a.  I need someone to test it with me though.   

[mAc Chaos]

Yes. An entire new avenue of bullshit to baffle the opponent with.