[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[BlackYakuzu94]

We still got 2C for Jcc OD shennaigans. And 5B.

[mjting001]

Hmmmm so what do you guys think overall?

[Raziul]

I think they finally got around to turning Hakumen into a corner whore like the rest of the cast.

 

From what I've seen, his mid screen game is significantly toned down, but they've improved several of his neutrals so that he can lay down a bit of pressure in the corner in his own way.

 

I'm not really a fan of how simple his air combos seem to be outside of IAD j2A.

 

I'm sure I'll play him regardless, but there are a bunch of changes that are making other characters look mighty appealing too.

[mjting001]

For me while I'm okay with the new version, I still see the 1.0/1.1 version to be the better one to play for me. Hakumen can open up other characters with less frequency due to his mobility, and getting that ch 3c or any touch was really needed. Now, people don't have to fear hakumen in midscreen like they usually to in cp1.

 

removing jc'able enma was a big reduction in flexibility imo.

 

and it is sort of counter-intuitive that they seem to want haku players to go to renka to start off combos then cancel to other moves, which use meter, but we have even less ways to earn meter from the D not absorbing projectiles on catch.

 

Drive over all is worse. I dont see any of the hakumens in the videos using the special cancellable properties at all. I'd rather just take the free grab and oki myself.

[.ShotS]

EDIT: Forgot to add that it's only week 1. 1-2 Months from now, everything should be pretty different as things get more fleshed out.

 

People are only going to look at the nerfs instead of what goes on overall in the game. 2.0 Hakumen is still going to be really good and scary as fuck in the corner along with any air hit going into massive damage. Enma change is fine for me so long as it's better than -5 on block. Counters being used for...well...counters is fine for me even though I loved FC Enma -> 6K.

 

New j.2A looks promising, 4C is kind of nuts right now, Zan 120 prorate is...yeah. GCOD -> ~6k happening also made me laugh pretty hard. New Enma combos seem very good. Better proration on Hotaru is actually pretty nice since he'll mostly be carrying people to the corner any way he can. Special cancel off counters doesn't seem useful(yet) but we'll see down the road.

 

Still a really good character but no one will want to admit it because: nerfsnerfsnerfs.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Yea, that's generally the attitude I see, we get so worried over what we lost rather than looking at what we gained so it makes our impressions worse than they actually are.

 

 

 

As for me, I think I have to see more of him before making a judgment, but he does seem a lot less scary midscreen due to no longer being able to convert into ezpz damage anymore. In it's place however comes more combo options and corner carry and then we get EZPZ damage in the corner. 

 

 

New 4C is the god though, kind of miffed we can't get anything off of it without a CH but hey, 10f poke will always be good.

 

 

I'm torn on the new counters; it's nice being able to special cancel anything from them, but I really haven't seen much use of it yet, so it remains to be seen how it works. I really hope it's decent, we need compensation for losing 5D/2D>Enma.

 

 

Overall, he still seems strong and can still get dat damage, he's just focused on getting you into the corner to do it now.

[Spark]

Anyone know when they do 4C > Shippu are they linking it or is 4C still super cancelable?

[.ShotS]

Anyone know when they do 4C > Shippu are they linking it or is 4C still super cancelable?

I think it's still Super Cancelable. I remember seeing someone put down CH 4C, 4C Shippu. Can't remember the damage but it was pretty low.

 

EDIT: Double checked and it seems that it's still in.

[mAc Chaos]

It was like 2-3k, couldn't get a clear look.

[The_undercover_beret]

4C < Shippu does 2978 in CP2.0.

[mjting001]

Jiyuna posted that Film/Gackt and Natasaki are switching to Ragna.

[entnervt]

Maybe that just means that Hakumen is not that dumb anymore. From what I've seen, meter management is back to CS2 times.

[Soviet Bear]

I'm reserving judgement until I've tried the character in CP2. I am though generally tired of all the tumbling about. Feels less like rebalancing and more like changes for the sake of them. It is motivating me to pick up a sub at least.

[Kriegdrache]

I'm torn on the new counters; it's nice being able to special cancel anything from them, but I really haven't seen much use of it yet, so it remains to be seen how it works. I really hope it's decent, we need compensation for losing 5D/2D>Enma.

I'm honestly thinking that the Hakumen players are just adjusting to the change still so they're experimenting.

Hearing that film is switching to Ragna is heartbreaking as fuck though.

[mjting001]

Yeah...I really like his play, he is another poropiccho in a sense that he is immensely in control when he plays.

 

Chin is super awesome too, but is subject to some random decision making.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Jiyuna posted that Film/Gackt and Natasaki are switching to Ragna.

Fuck, natakish was one of my faves.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The_undercover_beret]

Here is another combo video:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm24714089

 

For those who can't watch the video, the most important points are:

- Falling J.B < J.2A < 2B works

- Midscreen: 2B < 623AA < 5C < 623A < 6A < 6B < 5A < 5B* < 9jc < J.B < J.2A < jc < J.2A < J.C works and deals 2478 damage.

*The 5B might be char specific.

- Back throw < OD < Dash 5C works

- In the corner: Forward throw < 623A < 6C level 2 works

[Raziul]

I just keep seeing j.B > j.2A > dj.2A > j.C and it looks soooo boring. Loops are more fun imo. You have resets, IAD overhead set ups, corner carry, a bit of meter gain, and solid damage.

 

Even Extend Hakuman had j.2A air dash combos. I just don't understand why they would suddenly decide to pretty much give him no new air combo and leave him with something so simple.

 

This is my biggest issue with the changes and it really seems to kill a lot of my excitement. Guess I'll just have to keep hoping there's some hidden nonsense we don't know about yet.

[Koopa_Klawz]

Eh, I won't miss the doing the loops.

[BlackYakuzu94]

I didn't mind the loops, but they did have some potential in some hilarious setups; 5A>hop 5C reset, Falling J.2C, land IAD grab as they tech.

 

 

 

Hmm...J.2A...maybe we can air dash grab reset or other shit in the corner?

[Moblin]

The loop was silly imo.  It took my local FGC like 6 months to learn how to burst during the BnB reliably because it auto-baits so ridiculously well.  

 

Not to mention prohibitively difficult under pressure - I had to practice it for hours.  I don't think that timing for the j.2c will ever leave my brain.

 

There was always that extra rep you could get if you felt cocky, and I always felt cocky and sometimes dropped it.  For the sake of 100% optimization.

 

 

 

That being said, I do hope some other BnB is found besides the silly staircase he's got going now.  

 

Things I find interesting and exciting:  

new 4c

New special cancels out of counters

j.d shenanigans - less recovery time means more shenanigans

More damage from big confirms like Zantetsu and OD combos

Better Hotaru combos, as those are one of my favorite confirms to do with Haku

6b is unchanged, able to be RC'd.  Leads to more damage than before with an OD combo thanks to zantetsu buff. 

[Schneider-X]

I never liked the jump loop in CP.  It was visually awkward looking and weird to learn.  The j.2A stuff is interesting though, once you condition the opponent to not anti-air you automatically on airdash with j.D you'll be able to apply those types of mixups which'll be fun.

[Moblin]

I've always wanted to use j.2a as a jump-in, this is the first time it won't float Hakumen up when it hits something.

 

The hitbox on that move is amazing.  It has outspaced many characters' anti-airs and beaten them clean where any other aerial move would fail - in my experience.  

 

Airdash mixup is one of my favorite things about this game as well.  Hakumen's is especially rewarding too.

 

j.b >j.a >land > 2b works every time off an airdash, not to mention you can triple over head with:

 

j.b > j.a >TsubakiHotaru  Which will get a lot of players.

[Kriegdrache]

I don't mind the loop as a thing itself, but trying to do it on netplay was kind of a pain in the ass to be honest, and everytime it dropped I'd just feel dead inside. I don't think I ever did more than 1 rep outside of 6B CH, because I would always drop it otherwise. Offline it's not so bad I guess, but it's still a chore.

I agree that his air stuff doesn't look the most fun right now, but I do like me some IAD combo bullshit so I'm very hopeful.

[Schneider-X]

Here is a youtube version of the above combo video.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr4g3M7JhxU