[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

[Moblin]

Nah that's just a fuzzy guard.   It'd be broken is Hakumen could 5a standing people.

 

 

And by broken I mean decent

[IndigoNovember]

Alas, one can hope OTL .

[Schneider-X]

So here's some combo theory for hakumen mugen OD combos off of 6A.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpHQMLqb8i0&feature=youtu.be

 

BBCP2 combo damage should be 8K and 8.4K for the first and second combos respectively.  Doesn't look like you get a huge boost from using OD unless there are other routes possible in CP2.

[Raziul]

So here's some combo theory for hakumen mugen OD combos off of 6A.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZpHQMLqb8i0&feature=youtu.be

 

BBCP2 combo damage should be 8K and 8.4K for the first and second combos respectively.  Doesn't look like you get a huge boost from using OD unless there are other routes possible in CP2.

 

I need to try and get one of these off in a match.

[Moblin]

Those are great.    I still need to grind out Mugen combos in this version, since they've been useless forever now I never bothered.

 

One thing I've noticed as well is that lots of times when I use 6a AA successfully, they'll be counter-hit out of the aerial but still get staggered on the ground if they're low enough.  Which is interesting and also increases the chances for a 6a > Mugen confirm.

 

 

 

Has anyone seen an air-hit 6a > Mugen confirm though?

[Moblin]

I can't stress how good IAD j.a > J.c is in neutral and in anti-jumpout pressure.   Every Hakumen should know how to do this.   

Here's the breakdown of what it is:

 

 At midrange,  Hakumen can IAD over the opponent and land on the other side.  While doing this, using j.a immediately after airdashing and then buffering j.C  will cause the J.C to come out perfectly every time before you hit the ground, hitting most of the cast.  

 

 

Going through the list of uses:

 

Neutral game

 

Immediately using j.a and then buffering j.C always puts you at the exact right height to hit most characters standing as you fall with j.c.

 

It's too fast for them to anti-air on reaction, and if they time it late then you airdash right past them and hit with j.C

 

j.a will hit them out of any airgrab attempt if they do manage to hard-read the airdash.  Confirmable into Hotaru for pretty meter-efficient damage and corner carry.  

 

If j.c hits, it confirms into Enma on normal or CH, and it's completely safe if they block it.  

 

Haku pressure (aka stay next to me so you can block my 2a some more)

 

Every Hakumen hates when they up-back.  After they've pushed you out of Renka range they are free to start trying to up-back while you are forced to either hop in or kishuu.  Here's another option.

 

If they do jump + barrier block:  the J.a is very good air pressure against most of the cast and can lock them down with combinations of j.a and j.b while you both hit the ground, allowing you to continue pressure.   If you are pressuring your opponent, and they have barrier-blocked you to a moderate distance away where most Hakumens kishuu or hop forward, you can use this technique instead.  

 

If they backdash:  if the j.a doesn't hit them, you can go into j.b for an instant jump in as soon as they come out of their backdash that they will either get hit by or have to block, and a j.B jump-in is one of the best ways to start Hakumen pressure.  

 

If they do nothing but continue to block:  The j.C as you land on the other side of them keeps them locked down where you have the option to either reset back to neutral or kishuu forward and continue pressure while looking fancy.  J.C blockstun = 18 frames, kishuu = 18 frames, so you're at +0 when you do this perfectly, which isn't hard to do when the j.C is buffered after j.a to be perfectly timed close to the ground. 

 

As a defensive maneuver

 

Don't use this if you are close to the corner.  IAD'ing over your opponent into the corner is pretty dumb and most of us aren't dinguses.  

 

When you are stuck in the corner: lots of opponents like to jump and throw out a hitbox or jump > airgrab when they suspect that you want to IAD out.   J.a beats a ton of these very cleanly.  Alternatively, if they throw out a regular normal, you IAD over them, whiff your j.a, and then hit them with a falling J.c for a fast, reliable side-swap situation.  

 

Overall, It's a convenient option select that functions as an anti-jumpout or neutral spacing tool that tricks your opponent into getting hit or trying to beat it.

 

Try it out sometime and, especially, report back if any character has reliable moves that beat it in neutral.  

[mAc Chaos]

So you definitely need to IAD over them to do it? Otherwise they'd AA you?

[BlackYakuzu94]

TIME TO TEST SOME SCIENCE.

[The_undercover_beret]

So you definitely need to IAD over them to do it? Otherwise they'd AA you?

 

Not necessarily, it can be used in some rare situations from fullscreen away to narrow the gap and land a J.C as close to the ground, which can beat some anti-airs or jumps if spaced and timed correctly.

 

Try it out sometime and, especially, report back if any character has reliable moves that beat it in neutral.  

 

Some 5A can deal with it quite well (Especially Ragna's) but as you said it's difficult to do it on reaction anyway.

 

The great thing about IAD J.A < J.C is that there are a lot of variations possible (7, 8 or 9 IAD, delay AD, hjc AD...) to mess with our opponent's head and adapt to the situation.

[Moblin]

I know kishuu will lose its projectile invuln after 2.0, but will it still be head-body invuln?

[Raziul]

I'm fairly certain it's retaining those properties. It better. I need to keep being able to cheese Izayoi's DD.

[entnervt]

I know kishuu will lose its projectile invuln after 2.0, but will it still be head-body invuln?

IF I'm going to play CP2, I'll hate some match ups even more.

[Raziul]

IF I'm going to play CP2, I'll hate some match ups even more.

 

I'm not too bothered by the loss of projectile invuln. I think it's more to stop Hakumen from ignoring bursts for free than anything else.

 

The only times I actively took advantage of the projectile invuln was during Arakune bug pressure if I could get a read on what bugs to expect, and against Hazama chains. Everything else I mostly counted on Fumajin.

[Moblin]

No projectile invuln is definitely going to suck, but I think it's because they really want him to cut projectiles more than anything else.  He has 2 options to deal with projectiles in CP2.0: Block or Cut them

 

Right now we can Block, Cut them, Counter them for a free star, and kishuu through them.

 

Too many options for a character that is supposed to have a hard time with zoners after all, I suppose.  

 

 

Kishuu will still go under Ragna 5b and it's safe on block so I could care less

[bakahyl]

The loss of that invul will make matches vs 2.0 Nu less tolerable

[mAc Chaos]

No projectile invuln is definitely going to suck, but I think it's because they really want him to cut projectiles more than anything else.  He has 2 options to deal with projectiles in CP2.0: Block or Cut them

 

Right now we can Block, Cut them, Counter them for a free star, and kishuu through them.

 

Too many options for a character that is supposed to have a hard time with zoners after all, I suppose.  

 

 

Kishuu will still go under Ragna 5b and it's safe on block so I could care less

You can't counter the projectiles in CP2?

[BlackYakuzu94]

You can, but you won't get anything for it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Schneider-X]

You can, but you won't get anything for it.

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To add a little more detail, when you counter a projectile hakumen doesn't gain a star or automatically do a grab.  This just makes him invulnerable for a bit but he can still special/super cancel from the counter.

[Raziul]

http://youtu.be/McGlHE_S1Ho

 

Loads of Haku matches in this one. First round is just dumb. Almost 10k damage OD comeback.

 

Personally I disagree with that immensely. That's enough to take out a couple members of the cast in a single combo. Doesn't even require something silly like a fully charged 6C hit.

[WolfCrimson]

but... it was a CH 5C (2nd best starter after FC 6C) with 100% OD usage. seeing as hakumen's thing is big damage, what else did you expect?

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah, and he was at like 10% life.

[The_undercover_beret]

The exact same combo can be done in 1.1 with 50% life and 8 magatama for 8.4k. 

 

And I have been struck by lightning more often than I have landed this combo in a real match.

[Schneider-X]

We had dumber with 1.0 Hakumen where he gets an airgrab and gets similar damage while being completely unburstable.  I mean realistically the other Hakumen could've bursted the instant the 5C hit but the burst would've been blocked due to the extra hitstun from the CH. 

[Raziul]

I just hate any idea of the possibility of 0-100% combos. There's no place in a competitive environment for that sort of nonsense.

[entnervt]

Why maining Hakumen then? Since CP he has that stuff and in CP2 he really needs it imo.