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[CPEX] Hakumen Gameplay Discussion

Sophisticat

By Sophisticat
in Hakumen

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Spark

Spark

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^ And that is a Godsend, imo. Haku's never had anything to beat AAs before aside from barrier and a lucky j.D.

He's looking good.

Hotaru can be used to beat AAs if you're low enough and Tsubaki is body attribute so it will beat AAs as long as it comes out.

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BladeOfJustice7

BladeOfJustice7

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It's just one star more Nolan though I know what you're getting at. yes agito seems to be a strong tool to get your offense started at close range rather than simply relying on jb and hotaru, due to agito's speed and ability to crossup it is a strong contender against most AA's.

Sophisticat

Sophisticat

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That's not it, Hotaru uses 2 stars and needs to be at the right height or it'll whiff. Same for Tsubaki, except you'll get hit instead and it uses 3 stars. Both moves may or may not combo depending on some factors.

Agito here uses 1 star while seemingly guaranteeing a combo on CH. It has a huge vertical hitbox and have you seen the range on that hop Agito? It's much more versatile than any other anti-AA move Haku has had before.

Sophisticat

Sophisticat

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What if they block it and just wait for you to fall into another AA.

I think it's safe from that from the vids I've seen, but don't quote me on it.

EDIT: Yep, just watched some more matches, and seems Agito is safe on block. You don't drop like after using j.D. :)

Edited by Sophisticat
dioxideUniversa

dioxideUniversa

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Also, Agito during Mugen causes floor bounce so maybe an Agito Mugen corner loop in the near future?

Did the Haku just go through the burst with Hotaru trying to do Tsubaki>Hotaru? I wonder if we can punish after the Hotaru, considering the recovery for the move is much longer this game.

it looked like he could have easily 5a'd to punish it in that clip if nothing else, probably also 5b. he whiffed the throw pretty early in that burst

itsme

itsme

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Agito is definitely a much more reliable anti-AA from the looks of it so far. I really like how it helps make Hakumen's offensive gameplay more solid than before.

it looked like he could have easily 5a'd to punish it in that clip if nothing else, probably also 5b. he whiffed the throw pretty early in that burst

Yeah, I forgot completely that bursts also got a lot more recovery time this game. I really liked how it looked like 5B could punish the burst though. That means if we have the meter, that's a free 3.2k punish with Shippu :D. Unless if we can net more from a punish of course.

mAc Chaos

mAc Chaos

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Why even use 5B when you can just use raw Shippu. It's only 10 frames remember. :3

Unless you didn't mean 5B > Shippu.

itsme

itsme

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Nah, I just meant if we can combo 5B for more than 3.2k with at most 4 stars.

mAc Chaos

mAc Chaos

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Looking at the proration values, why do counters have P2s anyway. There is no second hit. Unless the catch counts? They all have 100 P1 but 6D is special in having 80 P2. Maybe there could be a use for that somehow.

Also I wonder if you could do something like 6C CH > RC > 5C > Zan > 2C > jB > j2A > j.2C > Agito and see if it does more damage than just 6C Shippu. Or maybe 6C CH > RC > Hotaru > etc.

itsme

itsme

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Looking at the proration values, why do counters have P2s anyway. There is no second hit. Unless the catch counts? They all have 100 P1 but 6D is special in having 80 P2. Maybe there could be a use for that somehow.

Also I wonder if you could do something like 6C CH > RC > 5C > Zan > 2C > jB > j2A > j.2C > Agito and see if it does more damage than just 6C Shippu. Or maybe 6C CH > RC > Hotaru > etc.

The P2 is probably for the actual damage portion of the move. iirc, 6D looked like it can be followed up compared to 5D and 2D, but I don't think anyone have successfully landed it since its start up nerf.

iirc, Enma or Guren connected after a 6C CH though I'm not sure if it still does at maximum range or not. 6C CH>Guren>Zantetsu(1)>CT>whatever might be possible and probably hurts a lot too.

Edited by itsme
Spark

Spark

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Looking at the proration values, why do counters have P2s anyway. There is no second hit. Unless the catch counts? They all have 100 P1 but 6D is special in having 80 P2. Maybe there could be a use for that somehow.

P2 is the prorate that is always applied in a combo, it's not related to hit count.

For example: (Not a real combo just an example of how prorate works)

2D > 5C > 214A

1800(2D DMG) + (.6(Hakumen's combo prorate) * 1(2D's P1) * .6(2D's P2) * 1210(5C DMG)) + (.6 * 1(2D's P1) * .6(2D's P2) * .92(5C's P2 cause it was the next move) * 560(214A DMG)) = ~2121 dmg combo.

dioxideUniversa

dioxideUniversa

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Agito is definitely a much more reliable anti-AA from the looks of it so far. I really like how it helps make Hakumen's offensive gameplay more solid than before.

Yeah, I forgot completely that bursts also got a lot more recovery time this game. I really liked how it looked like 5B could punish the burst though. That means if we have the meter, that's a free 3.2k punish with Shippu :D. Unless if we can net more from a punish of course.

speaking on this, isn't it kind of a big deal that we can whiff enma during a burst and still have time to punish with 5c?

itsme

itsme

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speaking on this, isn't it kind of a big deal that we can whiff enma during a burst and still have time to punish with 5c?

Not really considering we could do that since CSE ( ゜3゜)

Wow. He was just throwing out Agito during that match. I wonder how long it is going to take people to find an effective counter measure against it.

It's not broken or anything but pretty sure people will learn to respect the Agito pressure as time goes. I think in another video where Hikaru(Takosu) was abusing Agito, the Azrael he was playing against learned and just baited the Agito then proceeded to AA the jB.

Edited by itsme
itsme

itsme

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really? i thought it seemed to drag on forever in this video. it looked strange to me.

Actually, do you mean that we have enough time to punish with a 5C after Enma's recovery or that we can go through bursts with Enma and punish a burst with 5C? If it's the former, then yeah, it only works in CP since bursts have a much longer recovery time compared to CSE. If it's the latter, it's possible to do it in CSE but hard as hell to actually anticipate the burst and time the Kishuu properly.

BladeOfJustice7

BladeOfJustice7

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Agito. All day. Everyday. Anytime.

I hope this move isn't going to be stupid good as the game fleshes out. Hakumen is still looking incredibly strong in CP, contrary to what we all thought.

It's like his defensive options have been nerfed to an all time low, and his offensive tools have been enhanced to an all time high. I can't even consider him a truly defensive character at this point lol.

mAc Chaos

mAc Chaos

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So last night I was watching a Haku match, and his 2D led to a fatal counter. Apparently that Enma followup is a fatal? He did 2D, caught something and did the Enma followup and the game said "fatal counter."

Skeletal Minion

Skeletal Minion

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Wait, so he can Enma from 2D? I thought that follow up was only available on 5D. Is it both? Just 2D? All counters? That would be amazing since that would avoid the garbage prorate, but I'm probably being overly optimistic :lol:

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