The Last Johnny Tutorial

[A3Religion]

I started making a reminder to self kind of thing for the fact of how bad I fell off since playing at Evo. I started writing something to remind myself of all the matchups, and things to remember when fighting people. Eventually it evolved into a tutorial, and even though I consider myself pretty good with the character. I'm obviously not the best with him, that is why I feel the perspectives of other "OG Johnny" and new Johnny players. The more perspectives I get, the more I could use to explain the intricacies of the characters dimensions. I want input on:

Movement

All Pokes but your top 5 pokes

Normals

Set ups

Spacing

Specials

Overdrive

Enkasu: two ways to do an enkasu for a character and the one you prefer

Defensive options

Offensive options

Etc, etc....

I will be coming back periodically to ask notes on certain things. I don't care if Johnny is your secondary, it would be interesting to get the input.

[qwerty]

way ahead of you

[A3Religion]

Wow, you know what I guess your more than a WC troll after all I guess. I like this a lot. I do want to make a video for every individual matchup also a video each for mix-ups, cross ups, and gimmicks. I know gimmicks will have to be at least 2.5 to 3 videos long. I wouldn't mind just going through all of the forums for people's ideas but I have a life.

[A3Religion]

Apologies for not being really organized as this is my first time doing something like this. With the match-ups in particular, I would put it in sections of:

Opening move

Spacing

AAs

Pokes

Oki options

Bnb

Unblockable corner loop

Enkasu of Throw (midscreen and corner)

What to look out for defensively

Offensive options

Resets

I'll give an Example:

Potemkin

Opening move: 2d-coin bc it beats all options he has except for 236P and 2P. 236p can be coined into early Bnb into reset. 2P can be beat by 5k.

Spacing: Stay at the point of F.S unless for knockdown.

AAs: All of them work fine, and if he does D in the air, you can coin him into combo into reset.

Pokes: MF lvl 1, Coin, F.S, 2D sticking with Special cancel-able normals at closer ranges to beat out Hammer Fall

Oki Options: Coin outside of grab range, and TK DB FRC are the safest bets bc they bait out his Backdash and Grab.

BnB: K-HS-MF lvl2 S-5S-J.K-J.S-J.S-J.HS-KJ FRC-J.HS-DB for setup

K-HS-MF lvl2 S-5S-JI-5HS-DB transport-DB FRC-J.K-J.S-J.S-J.HS-J.D-KJ FRC-J.HS-J.D-Ensenga for damage

Unblockable corner loop: Requires 25% tension, and level 2:MF lvl2 K-coin-66-HS-MSJH-2D-Bacchus Sigh

Enkasu: Corner throw: J.P-J.K-J.S-J.D-Ensenga

Defensively: SlideHead: You can dash over from Half Screen and tag him with F.S into shenanigans.

JD: You can backdash and hit him with a coin into air combo.

Wakeup: If the Pot is throw happy, just backdash. If he is baiting the Backdash or is jumping in just learn how to block. If you see a HammerFall cancel in a blockstring, Backdash unless he's smart enough to bait it. Super on wake up is almost always a bad idea.

Offensive: Poke him until he gets frustrated or gives up. All of your mixups and crossups will work bc he's huge.

I apologize for not being more concise but I don't have matchup experience with everyone and I believe I need more than a couple of opinions per matchup.

The ones I'm not familiar with or familiar with anymore are:

Millia

Jam

Baiken

Ky

Axl

Chipp

Venom.

Please do your best to relay that to me in that format so that it would be easier for me to sort through your ideas and compare and contrast with everyone elses.

Edited November 24, 2010 by A3Religion

[qwerty]

hm, 2D beats pot backdash? maybe if you delay it, but then you're risking all sorts of nasty things...

and i am not a "troll". i take deep offense to such charges.

i'll do what i can for matchups once finals are over, but to be entirely honest i only really know may, ky and slayer (maybe axl now as well) decently at all; and even then, i only really fight one player for each of them, so my scope of those matchups will still be extremely limited.

[Sesshyru]

way ahead of you

There ant nothin but a bunch of dots for Order Sol. What is this bull sh**.

I hate WC always trollin. Bunch of green beans.

>$(

Edit:

Strategy

Don't play Order Sol.

Oh you can eat a dick!

[A3Religion]

hm, 2D beats pot backdash? maybe if you delay it, but then you're risking all sorts of nasty things...

and i am not a "troll". i take deep offense to such charges.

i'll do what i can for matchups once finals are over, but to be entirely honest i only really know may, ky and slayer (maybe axl now as well) decently at all; and even then, i only really fight one player for each of them, so my scope of those matchups will still be extremely limited.

Every little counts and correction you are a troll. Even if he backdashes on opening, by the time he recovers 2D does as well. Anything helps and I wanted to include more people into the project is all bc I tend to forget too many times simple shit that I'm not supposed to with Johnny now. I guess I'm getting old.

[4r5]

Vs Potemkin, my opening move is to create distance. If I see an opportunity to throw a Coin on him or otherwise force chip damage (or any damage at all) I take it. After establishing the life lead, no matter how insignificant, the ball is now in Johnny's court and it's now on Potemkin to make up the difference. Assuming you've done your job of creating distance, that means Potemken has to move forward, which means he's not holding a back charge. You've already eliminated one of his moves. And then it's just a matter of managing your walk-backwards space.

My favorite poke in this matchup is j.S. More specifically, jumping straight up is my favorite 'poke' and the j.S is just to cover my decent, should he not attempt to counter-'poke'.

My favorite zone is the space at which a j.S whiffs, just barely, in front of Potemkin.

My favortie anti-Airs are to jump up and slash, or tk Ensenga, or air throw, or dash beneath him. Also, jump instant block airthrow. And of course, 6P. Double-tap in case of clash.

My favortie oki is to reposition myself.

Anji, Millia, Robo-Ky, ABA are matchups that have pretty much not changed, so I can talk about them too. All the others have either changed too much and/or I've simply have not fought the matchup enough in AC to have enough confidence to comment on them.

oh and also, if you open up with 2D, Potemkin can open up with 6H and the 2D whiffs. It's kinda funny. It puts you where you want to be, but you probably would of liked to start the round with that 90 health.

[qwerty]

My favorite zone is the space at which a j.S whiffs, just barely, in front of Potemkin.

that's potemkin's favorite zone as well, since he can 2S or slidehead you to death.

let's not forget how good f.S is against pot. the way you use 5K in most other matchups should be more or less the way you use f.S against pot; he should be worrying about how to get around f.S any time he tries to approach you.

as for slayer, i can write up something in the next month or so, but for now you should just watch this match. the johnny player is FC, who's actually a venom player; but, he plays this matchup more conservatively than any jo player i've seen. he does drop some combos and miss some frc's, but he plays footsies incredibly well and he instant blocks his way out of a lot of mixups.

(if you don't have a nico account, bookmark this)

[A3Religion]

Vs Potemkin, my opening move is to create distance. If I see an opportunity to throw a Coin on him or otherwise force chip damage (or any damage at all) I take it. After establishing the life lead, no matter how insignificant, the ball is now in Johnny's court and it's now on Potemkin to make up the difference. Assuming you've done your job of creating distance, that means Potemken has to move forward, which means he's not holding a back charge. You've already eliminated one of his moves. And then it's just a matter of managing your walk-backwards space.

My favorite poke in this matchup is j.S. More specifically, jumping straight up is my favorite 'poke' and the j.S is just to cover my decent, should he not attempt to counter-'poke'.

My favorite zone is the space at which a j.S whiffs, just barely, in front of Potemkin.

My favortie anti-Airs are to jump up and slash, or tk Ensenga, or air throw, or dash beneath him. Also, jump instant block airthrow. And of course, 6P. Double-tap in case of clash.

My favortie oki is to reposition myself.

Anji, Millia, Robo-Ky, ABA are matchups that have pretty much not changed, so I can talk about them too. All the others have either changed too much and/or I've simply have not fought the matchup enough in AC to have enough confidence to comment on them.

oh and also, if you open up with 2D, Potemkin can open up with 6H and the 2D whiffs. It's kinda funny. It puts you where you want to be, but you probably would of liked to start the round with that 90 health.

The 6HS tidbit is a new one bc I have yet to encounter a Potemkin who had the balls to try it. I will make an extra note to include beating that option as well.

The Street fighter-esque strategy of making him walk in is interesting, and having him walk in to eliminate the chance of Hammerfall is also interesting. Though I hope the idea is that you are saying that it reduces the chances of him doing instead expecting him not to do it.

The only thing I do slightly disagree with is the spacing being that far. He has to respect your pokes from F. S distance. I guess you play Pot a lot more conservatively than I do but I can incorporate that into different playstyles.

I guess I'll aim for doing Pot first this weekend, any more feedback will be helpful.

Don't worry I know the Anji Matchup too well. I still would like your feedback on it when the time comes.

[Killerwatt]

I'm probably the last JO here to have an input in this, but I'd like to put my two cents in where I can. Lately I'm finding that, after 3 years of seriously learning this character, I can safely say I'm only "a little above terrible" in terms of my skill. There are many things I thought I knew about Johnny that keep changing with each new player and matchup I fight. I think I've somewhat mastered the execution barrier (MCing, BnBs, Enkasus and certain FRCs) but it's the footsie, mindgames and setups that I'm trying to overcome now. But I digress. Here's a little sample of what I would like to contribute.

Movement - I think his forward dash is highly useful but risky; I've become a little bit arrogant in my use of it in the sense that I don't respect my opponent's ability to shut it down while I am initiating pressure. I get hit out of it a lot now, so I'm trying to figure out the optimal times to make it both safe and essential to "getting in" (going over lows, etc.)

Pokes - man I love 5K and 5HS. Maybe too much. I have to get out of the habit of mashing the latter especially when I am in the corner. I just get manhandled. But I think these 2 pokes are about the finest combination of pokes when used appropriately.

...and that's all I got for now. Once I watch some more vids of myself/japan I'll input more.

[A3Religion]

Sorry to tell you bro but 5HS is a terrible poke because its 11 frames of startup, only 2 frames active and if you whiff its like 13 frames of recovery. Its a bad habit that many Johnny players have, don't do it unless you coined or did another poke before. The safest it gets is in the corner bc your opponent can't jump out but they definitely can backdash and punish you hard.

[njmamm]

I usually use f.S to poke for some reason. I dunno. It has decent range and it looks cool. I usually end up getting raped in the face if I whiff it though.

What do you guys usually do at about that range?

[Killerwatt]

Ack, well now I know. Thanks A3. You're right, using 5HS as a poke is indeed a nasty habit I do have and one that I need to break. But then what does that leave?

[4r5]

I usually use f.S to poke for some reason. I dunno. It has decent range and it looks cool. I usually end up getting raped in the face if I whiff it though.

What do you guys usually do at about that range?

5K

2K, or 2S

maaybe 2D, if they aren't jump

[njmamm]

5K

2K, or 2S

maaybe 2D, if they aren't jump

So, if you're pretty much at the edge of f.S range, you might wanna get a little closer and use those pokes right?

[A3Religion]

Alright I started on writing some things for Ky if you anyone has any info please let me know. I haven't played this matchup consistently in a long ass time.

[4r5]

Ky is really annoying in AC. FRC on StunEdge is not fun to fight against. FRC StunEdge is like the best of HDR Ryu's Fireball and Fake Fireball all in one. The FRC is really late, so Ky throws a fireball and if you don't IAD over it, then that's that. But if you do IAD over it, then he FRCs and antiairs you. Now your only recourse is to plow through with Jackhound or a Lv2 MF.

I think the most significant part of the Johnny vs Ky matchup happens at the start of the round, before Ky gets 25% meter. Now, there's no way to stop Ky from getting 25%. You blockstring him, he gets 25%. You runaway from him, he gets 25%. You hit him, he gets 25%. So what do you do? You gotta footsies him. During this brief period before Ky gets 25%, your goal is to beef up on resources and positioning. Land your coins, get ahead in meter, and walk him to the corner. Maybe even drain the clock as much as you can. He's going to get 25%, but you want to be at your best when he does. What happens in this part of the fight can echo through out the entire match.

For footsies, you're going to want to get real comfy poking with 6P. It'll cleanly beat out his f.S, H, and 6P. It ain't easy, but it will and that's what you got to work with. Beating out Ky's f.S is the real important bit. Johnny's 6P extends his hitbox forward, leaving you vulnerable to 2S's and 2D's. So you gotta stand back real far to use 6P. So far that the only convenient poke left for Ky is, guess what, f.S. Or a StunEdge.

Lots of 6P's. Lots of dashing over 2S, 2D, and Stun Dipper. No jumping. Ky's 6P is pretty beastly in this game. Jumping means you gotta use meter to get back to the ground safely, maybe. Lot's of Instant Blocking. You can't lag behind Ky's meter. Yes, resources are very important in this matchup. You gotta have meter for Jackhounds against StunEdges. Or a Lv2. Mid MistFiner is the obvious one to use, but no combo or recoin unless you're near the corner. Low is ok too, if you get the right distance, you can trade hits into a combo. I think that's pretty much everything that needs mentioning.

Oh yeah, Ky's 2P is 4f, so it's real easy for him to mash out of tick-throws. Remember the game gives 5f of throw invul to people coming out of blockstun. Johnny's throw range is bigger, so the best way to throw Ky is to setup the range so you're outside of his throw, but in yours.

So, if you're pretty much at the edge of f.S range, you might wanna get a little closer and use those pokes right?

Are we still talking about Potemkin? Anyways, it depends on the matchup, and whether you have the life lead, and are comfortable in it, or whether you don't (but you're comfortable without it?)

but, nah, don't think too hard about it. Just don't whiff f.S.

[10stars]

Wow, you know what I guess your more than a WC troll after all I guess. I like this a lot. I do want to make a video for every individual matchup also a video each for mix-ups, cross ups, and gimmicks. I know gimmicks will have to be at least 2.5 to 3 videos long. I wouldn't mind just going through all of the forums for people's ideas but I have a life.

If you want video footage, one thing i can still do is that. private message me with what you want recorded and i can do it.

I need a full directed script though, of what you want and what you want to show.

[qwerty]

textbook vs TE

[A3Religion]

If you want video footage, one thing i can still do is that. private message me with what you want recorded and i can do it.

I need a full directed script though, of what you want and what you want to show.

Its alright I'm going to use Chaz's capture card and stuff.

I love the video of Satou, you put up qwerty. Easily the best Johnny since MSY in my opinion.

[qwerty]

For footsies, you're going to want to get real comfy poking with 6P. It'll cleanly beat out his f.S, H, and 6P. It ain't easy, but it will and that's what you got to work with. Beating out Ky's f.S is the real important bit. Johnny's 6P extends his hitbox forward, leaving you vulnerable to 2S's and 2D's. So you gotta stand back real far to use 6P. So far that the only convenient poke left for Ky is, guess what, f.S. Or a StunEdge.

could you elaborate a bit on the rationale behind this? i'm trying this in training mode and it seems the only way to beat f.S with 6P is to straight up yomi it. and if that's the case, why not go for something that's both better and easier to do? like say, backdash 6HS? leads to a nice mist stance dash jackhound, ready to make your opponent frustrated and want to burst.

[Wirya]

Isn't 6P invulnerable above feet from it's 1st frame? So it should beat Ky's f.S cleanly.

[A3Religion]

could you elaborate a bit on the rationale behind this? i'm trying this in training mode and it seems the only way to beat f.S with 6P is to straight up yomi it. and if that's the case, why not go for something that's both better and easier to do? like say, backdash 6HS? leads to a nice mist stance dash jackhound, ready to make your opponent frustrated and want to burst.

I personally agree that using 6P to play footises is not optimal. I believe when you get to that range, you should throw coins and block stunedges. Once you have lvl 2, you make him stop doing stunedges and if he does you punish him. Also JH is a viable option but I think only from way back and not in a predictable fashion.

[A3Religion]

Alright I need some notes on fighting May, also could people give me a top ten list of your worst matchup with Johnny. It will be easier to know what I will do first. I'm doing Pot and Ky first but anything after I'm a bit torn on who I'll do.