[AC] Johnny vs I-No

[4r5]

I-NO MATCHUP INFORMATION

Poking Game

More to come!...? You can help!

Strategy

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Specific Punishes

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Setups/baits

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Knowledge

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[Stryfe]

I'm not a Johnny player, (I-no, actually) and I was wondering what this matchup was like from this side of fence. I play a good Johnny player on a steady basis, and I feel like this matchup is even, if not close to being even. What are you guys' thoughts?

[4r5]

Not going to try and throw numbers around, or say it's even or favors one way or another. None of that is going to help anyone fight the actual matchup. And with that, I got nothing to say. Maybe one of the New York Johnny's fights Chaz often and has something to say.

[frcflyingjohnny]

Never get hit by a music note, try to avoid them at all costs. Even airdashing into one to get rid of it and take that one hit is worth it to not have to try to defend vs. the lockdown/mixup that she has cuz she will get a knockdown. So if a music note hits you, you will be okizeme'd/reset to death because of her notes have that pressure. MF stops the music note also. MF stops her air dives as well. and 6P does a good job to stop her horizonal twisty fly move and air dives if timed right. Mash 2K a lot to avoid getting hit by STBT, if you get her on a CH with 2k during STBT(strokethebigtree: the move that slides and hits low) do the combo 2k, 5S, 6H, then to JH if you have tension. That's basically it, if you get hit by a music note, it's gonna be hard to gain the momentum you had when you were free to move at all.

[Stryfe]

Not going to try and throw numbers around, or say it's even or favors one way or another. None of that is going to help anyone fight the actual matchup. And with that, I got nothing to say.

Maybe one of the New York Johnny's fights Chaz often and has something to say.

I don't necessarily want to throw around numbers, but I want see what tools Johnny has that are, in your opinions, effective. I like to look at matchups from both angles to fully understand them. Plus, when I play with a friend of mine, sometimes I'm unsure of what I should be doing. I don't think there are that many videos on youtube with this matchup. 4r5, do you have any by chance? I went through your youtube playlist and I don't think that I saw any (correct me if im wrong )

[4r5]

I've got one on my youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syk8w93DaQk

Here's what a quick search of bigooooooohh's brings up

http://youtube.com/watch?v=tIg7PmjuuPo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rCRMonXE_qc

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Tx1-XcVwqv8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RIuYBGb_f5s

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vEcDALZxXK8

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TNpAYjYnrds

http://youtube.com/watch?v=G1WtqhSK-fo

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mBhSUx_xrUI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=o_Hne-xPdO8

Here's I-No and Johnny in japanese

イノ

ジョニー

so you can do your own searches

[qwerty]

i played honnou today, and while i was mostly just on autopilot mindlessly poking and throwing coins, i did notice one thing. i-no's throw > johnny's throw, every time. it didn't help that honnou used to play johnny and knew my gameplan, but i'd imagine most good i-no's know that they can out-throw johnny no matter what. her throw just has so much more range that even when i tried bullshit "mixups" like kamae stance -> dash -> mc -> throw or whiff 2k -> dash -> throw, he'd go for a throw because there was a pretty good chance that every time he would either land his throw or tech mine. it's pretty frustrating to have such a staple technique shut down so often, but i guess johnny players are used to that kind of thing. just something i figured i'd shed light on in case anyone hasn't had a chance to play a decent i-no.

[4r5]

I-No and Johnny have the same throw range. He's just hitting HS before you. Alternatively, you can just bait his throws, instead of trying to out throw him throwing you.

[qwerty]

exactly the same range? it seemed like no matter how i approached that he had a clear advantage. maybe her throw has shorter startup? though, it would make sense that he was just inputting it quicker than i was too. i actually hadn't thought of that .

[4r5]

throws have no startup. They happen when you press the button. You just gotta tighten up your dash throws. Get that throw on the first possible frame. Also, people have an extra 5 (iirc) frames of throw invulnerability when leaving block or hit stun. So tick throws, like 2P throw or even really fast mistcancels into a dash n' throw, they could potentially throw you before you could even have a chance to throw them.

[qwerty]

hah, now i feel really stupid for saying that. i just remembered that there's no startup for throws right after i posted that too . as for tick throws, that's actually what i tried at first. he ended up doing exactly as you said though, throwing me before i knew what was coming. so you're probably right, he was just inputting it faster than i was. the other thing i noticed which i forgot to mention is that green notes are a massive pain in the ass. worse than ky's fb or may's whales/loops. i-no can restrict johnny's movement pretty well with them, and she can move in rather easily if you guard them and start her pressure game. it's best to avoid them altogether, but it's really easier said than done. the only times i was ever able to come out of a green note bait untouched was when he either had a bad setup (ie: as i was bursting) or when i went for an offensive burst after a successful bait. i-no is tricky. this was the first i-no i've played against, and it was wierd. she's like johnny but with actual mixups and zoning ability.

[Xaphiel]

You just gotta tighten up your dash throws. Get that throw on the first possible frame.

Bolded for emphasis! This is really important to do, since dashing back in such a big deal for Johnny you absolutely *need* to get the timing down for following up a dash. Not only for throws, but for throwing out pokes or continuing strings.

This is probably why Honnou was throwing you out of your throw attempts so often, since he used to play Johnny he probably knows the dash-in timing at least fairly well, so he grabbed you as soon as he could.

Also, in case you didn't know you can mix-up your dash-ins just a little by cancelling your dash into a jump. Just tap 66 and then hit 9. This way your opponent hears the sound of Johnny dashing and sees some motion, so they might think this fits into the pattern of a tick throw and try to respond to a tick throw when in fact you're in the air above them waiting to rain down punishment. Although.. there really isn't much punishment to dish out at that height and angle so your options, as I see it, are either DBFRC or KJFRC to hit them out of the 5H or 6H they got instead of a throw.

Essentially you want to use this dash-in>jump mixup to keep your opponent on edge, and to discourage them from *always* doing the same old thing in response to your same old thing.

[qwerty]

huh, interesting. i'll have to try that next time i play him.

i think though that the easiest solution to this (personally, at least) is to just not throw as much and land coins other ways (2D, MFKLV2 OTG strings, 6K, 6P, etc). my offensive oki game has actually gotten much better since the tourney i held on saturday (i can actually input enkasu's correctly on lightweights now) so next time i might just be that much more prepared.

also, i've been trying out i-no for research purposes and god damn is chemical love hard to frc . now i know what all the i-no players have been bitching about.

[Killerwatt]

I've only fought one good I-no and what I found helpful in this fight is 1 frame jumping her air dash and countering with jK -> counter whatever. Whenever she does it just assume she's gonna hit you low. Baiting STBT and countering with Johnny special is smexy; even the I-no player complimented me for it. Do NOT sit there and block the green note and try to be close enough so that you're not zoned by her Chemical Love. If you can set up a nice 12-13 hit combo off MFL2 you're in business.

[whytesakura]

jumping out of the random is not good her air-throw range is godlike

[mynusdono]

Me vs A3religion. Epic matches....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qps2CR6jsOI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hBQlRNopV0

[Killerwatt]

Smexy work there mynus; though as a Johnny main I have to give it up for my boy A3. I've actually wanted to pick up I-no for a while now but I don't think I have the time to dedicate to master her. Is she as hard as she looks to play Mynus?

[mynusdono]

Smexy work there mynus; though as a Johnny main I have to give it up for my boy A3. I've actually wanted to pick up I-no for a while now but I don't think I have the time to dedicate to master her. Is she as hard as she looks to play Mynus?

Lol i play Marvel bro and she is harder than custom sentinel combos my dude. but too fun cause she is so freestyle. Dat kid a3religion is kinda godlike tho.

[SuperFX]

quick things to note:

- if you're getting hit by the note you're doing something wrong. Johnny has good sj mobility and should never be getting locked down by it unless it's on wakeup.

- 6k is important. It goes through (and counterhits) chemical love if I-no tries to space you with it, and you can use it to trade with notes (you take more damage but you're not locked)

- bait supers. It's really easy for Johnny to get in someone's face and make them nervous enough to waste meter. While it's hard for Johnny to punish I-no's supers, without meter she is much more harmless

-FD. if you can fd one mixup the next one you can counterhit with either 5p or 5k or sj out

I don't think it's a very hard match for a Johnny who plays patiently and picks his spots

[mynusdono]

quick things to note:

- if you're getting hit by the note you're doing something wrong. Johnny has good sj mobility and should never be getting locked down by it unless it's on wakeup.

- 6k is important. It goes through (and counterhits) chemical love if I-no tries to space you with it, and you can use it to trade with notes (you take more damage but you're not locked)

- bait supers. It's really easy for Johnny to get in someone's face and make them nervous enough to waste meter. While it's hard for Johnny to punish I-no's supers, without meter she is much more harmless

-FD. if you can fd one mixup the next one you can counterhit with either 5p or 5k or sj out

I don't think it's a very hard match for a Johnny who plays patiently and picks his spots

Um.....eto....ano....

- Ok dude first of all like I-no note pwns Jonny's mobility. like being how you can...control it....and he has to waste meter in the air to be able to avoid it.

- Why in Gods name would you take the hit on a note by trading with a 6K, just so I-no can combo you into KD-> 50/50 lockdown mixup oki?? even full screen away she can CL you off a hit note and KD you. her dash covers crazy distance in no time and her hover dash cancel is even faster. that is like asking to die...

- Using 6K to CH CL is smart tho. Good I-nos know smamming CL on Johnny = pain. You gotta be at the right distance to go under it however. Also baiting supers is smart, but dont forfeit your oki trying to do that. that goes for any Character obviously. anyone can get in someones face but that doesnt mean just cause you have 50% tension you have to blow it on super...:-\

- and lol at I-no harmless with no meter. first off Johnny's hit box is huge and he is a heavy char which means custom combo time for I-no. Just look at my vids vs. a3religion. the most damaging combos i did were tensionless!! FD is your friend tho. Its pretty hard for me to get more than 2 mixups on him without using tension. 2H works well for Johnny stopping consecutive dash in's by her as well.

- Its already noted the match is 6-4 Ino's favor. However i dont think its a very hard fight for Johnny either. just that she controls space beter than he does, her mobility is better and note is a huge factor in the matchup. trust me when i say that I-no is 10x more scared of getting hit than Johnny is lol. Just play patient and you will get in/ hit her eventually off a mistake or if you have godly gimmicks like a3religiion and solid and quick to adapt like Mike then you will get that 80% combo on her...

[Killerwatt]

Um.....eto....ano....

- Its already noted the match is 6-4 Ino's favor. However i dont think its a very hard fight for Johnny either. just that she controls space beter than he does, her mobility is better and note is a huge factor in the matchup. trust me when i say that I-no is 10x more scared of getting hit than Johnny is lol. Just play patient and you will get in/ hit her eventually off a mistake or if you have godly gimmicks like a3religiion and solid and quick to adapt like Mike then you will get that 80% combo on her...

6-4? I thought it was 5.5-4.5 I-no? Maybe I was misinformed. Didn't know it was that tough for Johnny. Sheesh the man in black just can't catch a break...

[SuperFX]

- Why in Gods name would you take the hit on a note by trading with a 6K, just so I-no can combo you into KD-> 50/50 lockdown mixup oki?? even full screen away she can CL you off a hit note and KD you. her dash covers crazy distance in no time and her hover dash cancel is even faster. that is like asking to die...

I suppose I didn't make it clear, but if I'm trading with note there it's CH I-no; I'm not talking about just kicking the note.

And while it hampers his mobility, it simply becomes a guessing game with note. If I can sj when I see note, normally it not only didn't hit me but I don't have to waste any meter to avoid it.

The hardest thing against I-no for Johnny is not getting air thrown all day. He's huge and slow and since Johnny seems to win most air v air in this match (air slash is good) you have to avoid being predictable.

I honestly don't see this match as any worse than 5.5-4.5 in I-no's favor.

As for your matches with A3, I'd have to go back and watch them but I think you're talking about big combos off CH 6p and stroke, right? If so, those are mistakes on Johnny's part; most anyone can get big, meterless damage if he catches the opponent in CH; I'm talking about offensive mixups and I-no really isn't scary without meter in that case. Dangerous? Sure, but who isn't in this game on offense?

Edit: A quick note about 2H. It can totally save JO in tricky situations, but the move is too risky and I know (from experience) that JO can start treating it like a panic button, which will get you killed. It's better to learn distancing for anti-airing with shit like 5p, 5k (it works), 6p and punch finer. Don't use 2H unless you KNOW it's going to hit or you have the meter to RC

[mynusdono]

I suppose I didn't make it clear, but if I'm trading with note there it's CH I-no; I'm not talking about just kicking the note.

And while it hampers his mobility, it simply becomes a guessing game with note. If I can sj when I see note, normally it not only didn't hit me but I don't have to waste any meter to avoid it.

The hardest thing against I-no for Johnny is not getting air thrown all day. He's huge and slow and since Johnny seems to win most air v air in this match (air slash is good) you have to avoid being predictable.

I honestly don't see this match as any worse than 5.5-4.5 in I-no's favor.

As for your matches with A3, I'd have to go back and watch them but I think you're talking about big combos off CH 6p and stroke, right? If so, those are mistakes on Johnny's part; most anyone can get big, meterless damage if he catches the opponent in CH; I'm talking about offensive mixups and I-no really isn't scary without meter in that case. Dangerous? Sure, but who isn't in this game on offense?

Edit: A quick note about 2H. It can totally save JO in tricky situations, but the move is too risky and I know (from experience) that JO can start treating it like a panic button, which will get you killed. It's better to learn distancing for anti-airing with shit like 5p, 5k (it works), 6p and punch finer. Don't use 2H unless you KNOW it's going to hit or you have the meter to RC

nah i meant combos i hit off regular mixup. no CH. I dont remember there being a good I-no in St.Louis besides AKA's "sometimes i like to play around version" I wouldnt steer you wrong. my Johnny xp is too high.

[SuperFX]

nah i meant combos i hit off regular mixup. no CH. I dont remember there being a good I-no in St.Louis besides AKA's "sometimes i like to play around version" I wouldnt steer you wrong. my Johnny xp is too high.

It's all good. There used to be a good I-no in Stl before AKA started playing her during Slash, but the guy quit a couple years ago, I'd say probably at the beginning of Slash

[A3Religion]

nah i meant combos i hit off regular mixup. no CH. I dont remember there being a good I-no in St.Louis besides AKA's "sometimes i like to play around version" I wouldnt steer you wrong. my Johnny xp is too high.

Trust me SuperFX, his johnny XP has to be level 99 by now.

No offense but I doubt any Johnny players can take on Mynus, without a few tricks up their sleeves, and even then that is a stretch.

I think I have almost exhausted him in the way of different things to look for against Johnny. (to toot my own horn a little bit)