IndigoNovember Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I'm not really sure what they mean by beginner combos, but I'll go throw together something for the wiki and the combo thread. Sources will include combo videos and Dustloop user posts.
mAc Chaos Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I just mean that if someone comes in here and wants to learn Hakumen for Extend that they should have something to work with, just like the CS1 and CS2 threads we had. Look at the other character subforums. They have all this Extend stuff and we have nothing.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 There's tons of basic hakumen combos in the video thread. And there's also challenge mode. We have a few things to work with besides the hakumen community being a bunch of old lazy/busy geezers. There's also full blown tutorials on hakumen for CSEX, we just need a translator for it, which there are two or three in here who can (but they never post here ).
itsme Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 >There's also full blown tutorials on hakumen for CSEX, we just need a translator for it Whoa, back the fuck up. There is one? I can give it a shot if you can give me the name of the video/tutorial page.
Stone Drum Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 honestly I think the guide I've been doing is a good stepping stone to getting comfortable with Hakumen, as well as learning need to know combos. Once you are aware of the combos in my guide, self optimization in the most specific of circumstances will come naturally over time. http://www.blazblue.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9388 Honestly, I am not posting now to assert my wip guide in any way, I am just trying to help people improve and or begin to learn Hakumen. Also, does anyone have any info on this combo I saw Blacky do? renka1-kishuu-2c-sj2a-j2c-6a-6c-2c-j2a-j2c-2c-sj2a-AD-j2a-jc-5c-3c like, is it a maximized damage combo in certain scenarios? or was it just an interesting improv kinda thing?
itsme Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Assuming that was near corner, I think it might have been for damage optimization though I don't if it is the optimal combo or not; I've seen myself rarely use 6A during the corner loop unless if I know I can insert 6A > 5C > 2C now for damage optimization. Also, the 6A > 6C might have been to stabilize the opponent's height so 6C will hit.
aeonphreak Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I just mean that if someone comes in here and wants to learn Hakumen for Extend that they should have something to work with, just like the CS1 and CS2 threads we had. Look at the other character subforums. They have all this Extend stuff and we have nothing. Yeah, seriously. We should at least produce a thread listing optimal combos and typical BnB's. Entnervt posted some good stuff on p.54 of this thread. Thats what I've been referring to and working off of since I haven't touched this game for roughly a year. Currently, much of the combos listed seem quite optimal. I would think just gotta go through it, revise, and make additions as needed with optimized combos. I'd be willing to help work on this.
Stone Drum Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Assuming that was near corner, I think it might have been for damage optimization though I don't if it is the optimal combo or not; I've seen myself rarely use 6A during the corner loop unless if I know I can insert 6A > 5C > 2C now for damage optimization. Also, the 6A > 6C might have been to stabilize the opponent's height so 6C will hit. I just thought it was weird to not have renka1-6c-6a. I've never seen someone do a renka1-loop1-6a-6c-loop before
BladeOfJustice7 Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 >There's also full blown tutorials on hakumen for CSEX, we just need a translator for it Whoa, back the fuck up. There is one? I can give it a shot if you can give me the name of the video/tutorial page. Hakumen CSEX Guides: Hakumen combo video of sorts?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMRDkz8xeqg&feature=feedu Hakumen bnb guide Pt. 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40Lfd2aK4Gc&feature=feedu Hakumen bnb guide Pt. 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8t8WMVcAZk&feature=feedu GDLK Hakumen Combo Video/Tutorial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPscCmFWm30 More or less these videos. There might be more, I'll recheck the thread for any later.
dioxideUniversa Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I just thought it was weird to not have renka1-6c-6a. I've never seen someone do a renka1-loop1-6a-6c-loop before The 6a -> 6c can be added in combos where you couldn't start with renka(1) 6c due to spacing or whatever reason (using 2c making it easier to bait burst is also a possibility) to get more optimal damage. None of these options are as high damage as the "ideal CS2 bnb" I don't think, but they provide flexibility. The combo with 6a -> 5c -> 2c ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWJbrP5SkWo#t=13m08s ) does ~ 10 damage or so less than the standard bnb (though I can't remember if that's with or without the 6a added at the end between the j.C and 5c...) Variants with 6c coming halfway through the combo are obviously significantly less damage, but it's better damage than not having the 6c at all. My guess would probably be that using the superjump j.B before the first j.2a like Blacky used it also makes the combo much more stable and difficult to drop. I just mean that if someone comes in here and wants to learn Hakumen for Extend that they should have something to work with, just like the CS1 and CS2 threads we had. Look at the other character subforums. They have all this Extend stuff and we have nothing. This is what I was trying to push for before. It's one thing to have information for people to access, but I believe it is common for veteran posters (and often by extension the people organizing said information) to forget that the information presented may not communicate well to beginners, especially those who are coming in new to the game or even the genre. Hakumen may not be a very beginner-friendly character, but I feel like that is all the more reason to try to communicate to beginners rather than not bother. It'd be better to get more people's foot in the door so they can continue to grow and integrate into the community than to get discouraged and give up for whatever reason. Edited February 22, 2012 by dioxideUniversa
Darkside937 Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Right now I only use 6A to help with spacing issues (for example, if Renka(1) > Kishuu > 6C leaves Hakumen too far away from the corner). I'm still testing but ATM the proration makes you lose some damage in most cases.
Stone Drum Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 wait, so you actually lose damage by adding the 6A after the 6c and shouldn't be used if it can be avoided?
xlolxlolx Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 hmm stuff>214a>hop>2c>236b(1)>stuff works on some characters
BladeOfJustice7 Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Right now I only use 6A to help with spacing issues (for example, if Renka(1) > Kishuu > 6C leaves Hakumen too far away from the corner). I'm still testing but ATM the proration makes you lose some damage in most cases. If you check out the newest Hakumen matches, they' been doing new corner combos that involve 6a. They get about 2-6 hundred I think in extra damage with this new combo. wait, so you actually lose damage by adding the 6A after the 6c and shouldn't be used if it can be avoided? It doesn't have very good proration if I remember correctly. So yes you could lose damage depending on the combo. Adding hits in a combo doesn't guarantee you extra damage bro. @xlolxlolx, your avatar creeps me out :/ Where is it from?
Stone Drum Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I know more hits doesn't equal more damage, though it does often yield higher magatama regain. That just surprised me because I figured, now that you see everyone adding in the 6a into corner combos, I assumed you'd be getting more damage! :p
xlolxlolx Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 its hancho from kaiji s2, some guy on niconico editted so that he looks like hamtarou for his MAD lol
Darkside937 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I'll experiment more sometime this evening, but yes the proration is a little too much. There were even a couple times where I could only get 2x loops when I used 6A instead of 3x, but I don't remember which combos right now. The best uses I've found for it seem to be the aforementioned situation and using it near the end of a combo to tack on extra damage.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Sup all, somewhat new to Blazblue, I have played the game before, just never owned it, Decided to get Extend as my first real game, and decided to go with Hakumen. Anything I should know, not know, what's his game, etc.
psycofang2 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Sup all, somewhat new to Blazblue, I have played the game before, just never owned it, Decided to get Extend as my first real game, and decided to go with Hakumen. Anything I should know, not know, what's his game, etc. heres what you should know, hes not a brain dead mashy character. He takes some time and patience as alot of his combos are not gattlins, they link through jump and ground cancels. Hes much more versatile in extend so its a good thing you picked him up now, and somewhat bad in certain regards. hes a character that gets as good as you do. if you know and maintain your fundamentals you will go far. his game at the beginning is spacing until you gain enough stars to do something, either between 2-4 in adequet to gain control. or you could safely play a rush down though its dangerous to some degree if you are new. if you are close by we could train for a bit and i can give you some help. check out the hakumens frame data http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Frame_Data_(Hakumen_BBCSE) and his combos since most cs2 combos work in csex. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12656-CS2-EX-Oki-Mix-up-and-Set-ups-Thread for a better understanding of hakus inner workings. also practice in challeneg mode. it helps greatly.
BlackYakuzu94 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 heres what you should know, hes not a brain dead mashy character. He takes some time and patience as alot of his combos are not gattlins, they link through jump and ground cancels. Hes much more versatile in extend so its a good thing you picked him up now, and somewhat bad in certain regards. hes a character that gets as good as you do. if you know and maintain your fundamentals you will go far. his game at the beginning is spacing until you gain enough stars to do something, either between 2-4 in adequet to gain control. or you could safely play a rush down though its dangerous to some degree if you are new. if you are close by we could train for a bit and i can give you some help. check out the hakumens frame data http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Frame_Data_(Hakumen_BBCSE) and his combos since most cs2 combos work in csex. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?12656-CS2-EX-Oki-Mix-up-and-Set-ups-Thread for a better understanding of hakus inner workings. also practice in challeneg mode. it helps greatly. Ya know, I get that feeling that fighting games require more studying than my books nowadays. I spend a good couple of hours if Challenge mode and practice those until they're memory for me. I kind of figured he was more of a "wait and then act" character, so his game revolves around his counters and his stars. Good to know.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 His counters are more of a deterrent, which creates more opportunities to attack. Strike when you see hesitation in your opponent's eye, as one would put it. Don't rely on his counters basically, you need to learn to read your opponent to make good use of them. That's about all I could add here.
IndigoNovember Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) More or less these videos. There might be more, I'll recheck the thread for any later. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnOol6dKY5c&feature=g-all-u&context=G2670f8cFAAAAAAAADAA You forgot this one. That should be all of them though. ----- So I did some testing of the new combo that Blacky did. Here's how it compares to other variations of our corner combo that I know of. All combos were done with Level 2 charge of 6c: Corner Loop: [starter] -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c -Omit 3c for oki -One repetition of Corner Loop is "2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c" -More than one repetition can be written as "Corner Loop (2)", for example -Any time a combo uses more than one rep or proration does not permit it, omit "DELAY J.2a" -Each J.2c should be delayed to ensure the rest of the combo works. -In the odd cases where you think your J.2c in a Corner Loop (1 or 2) will not combo, you should use this combo instead: [starter] -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c If doing Corner Loop (2), then Starter = Starter + 1 repetition of Corner Loop. Original CSII Corner Combo: (3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> HOP Corner Loop(2) [6258/2.4] CSII Corner Combo with 6a added before the Corner Loop, Corner Loop also modified to have a SJ.5b before the first J.2a: (3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 6a -> Corner Loop(2) [6237/3.0] CSII Corner Combo with 6a -> 5c -> 3c added to the end of the Corner Loop, Corner Loop also modified to have a SJ.5b before the first J.2a (actually does more damage if you don't include the J.5b but you get 0.5 less magatama and the extra damage is tiny): (3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> Corner Loop(2) [6295/3.0] A modified version of Blacky's combo that substitutes in the Corner Loop halfway in: (3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 6a -> 5c -> 3c [6295/2.7] Blacky's Combo (it's actually kinda hard to do due to the hitbox of the 6a (do the J.2c too early and the 6a can't connect because the opponent is too high) as well as the following 5c (do 6a too early and the 5c can't connect because the opponent is too high), it could just be me being bad since I'm not playing on pad anymore ┐('～`；)┌ ): (3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 6a -> 5c -> 2c -> J.5b -> J.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c [6253/2.8] Not Blacky's Combo, but another one from somewhere else (probably recent Hakumen videos), only works with good starters like 5c, Renka, etc: (3) 5c -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 6a -> 5c -> 3c [6562/3.5] Here's a version of the previous combo that kinda works with more starters, really hard to land actually +__+;; . (3) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 6a -> 5c -> 3c [low damage-5307 (5b starter) /3] Here's a version of the previous combo that actually works with more starters, not really better than just using the old CSII Corner Loop. (3) [starter] -> Renka(1) -> Kishuu -> [6c] -> 2c -> SJ.5b -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> J.5b -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 6a -> 5c -> 3c [4800~ (5b starter) /3] I'm still working with that last combo, doesn't seem to work off of much =__= . Edited February 23, 2012 by IndigoNovember
BladeOfJustice7 Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnOol6dKY5c&feature=g-all-u&context=G2670f8cFAAAAAAAADAA You forgot this one. That should be all of them though. I honestly was debating including that tutorial. Why doesn't the dustloop work off a hop hotaru? The last j2c>j2a doesn't really connect against any of the cast. Could someone explain to me why that is?
xlolxlolx Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 its more of a tutorial/combo movie lol not sure if everyone knows this yet but most stable midscreen 3 star combo: starter>236b(1)>623a>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.a>j.b>5c>2c>j.b>j.2a>air dash>j.2a>j.c>stuff if get to corner
mAc Chaos Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 I honestly was debating including that tutorial. Why doesn't the dustloop work off a hop hotaru? The last j2c>j2a doesn't really connect against any of the cast. Could someone explain to me why that is? I noticed that too last night. We'll just need a variation of it.
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