ryokoalways Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 It's not that black and white. Generally, just go for the knockdown and oki set-up. Hakumen has a solid enough mix-up game that you should always default to. There are two rules for when you are going for a reset: 1. You should be in control of the pace of the match or you are 100% sure your opponent is just playings balls to the wall. 2. You are doing it off a legitimate tech trap, and not jC>not doing anything. I've been messing around with resets in the corner, and there are some reliable set-ups that you can get off with multitudes of options to follow-up with. But again, 90% of the time, go for knockdowns.
Arcknight Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Well it was just a thought. I understand that spacing becomes a concern in the corner. The only way I can think of to reliably get extra space would be to stuff more j.2As in the string. After sleeping on it, you'd likely only catch mashers with it (or just about everyone on Ranked). A lot of people don't expect Haku to have so many air-unblockables either. Oh well back to the drawing board. Thanks for the feedback.
WolfCrimson Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) I hate shippu's low damage so much. That move needs 50% minimum damage (4000/2 = 2000) for it to be good. The amount of damage it does now just doesn;t make sense: it does the second highest damage for a super that doesn't have any requirements, yet it's minimum damage is among the lowest. is THE lowest, at 800 damage only. Edited June 9, 2011 by WolfCrimson
mAc Chaos Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 They had to stop all the Hakus running amok through CS1 Shippuing everyone, after all.
WolfCrimson Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Yeah, burning 4 magatama to do 800 damage must've been a huge threat to the balance of the universe. Wait, it was also like this in CS1, according to frame data, only difference was that because of better character combo rate, combo into shippu wasn't prorated that much, so it seemed like it did more damage and we felt satisfied. But now since Haku does less damage per mag due to his proration, we're forced to manage our mags more carefully, and 4 mags for 800 damage is very poor return for investment.
itsme Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 Anyone watched the Revelations stream and was their anything noteworthy from it? I completely missed it because of a busy weekend.
zreb Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 I only watched it for a day, but I didn't see any haku players at all.
Arcknight Posted June 13, 2011 Posted June 13, 2011 There was one and it was only for one match as far as I remember. I don't think they won either.
MAdBater Posted June 15, 2011 Posted June 15, 2011 When trying to move in on a turtling or runaway opponent what are some good pressure strings. metered and unmetered pressure strings? Meaning if you have low meter and you do not want them to get away and zone what are good options. An metered pressure options that can possible lead to big damage. I know this means using the command dash and other things. I need to stop doing predictable jump ins and air dashing zoners. lambda, tager, platinum, and tsubaki are giving me the hardest time right now. Tsubaki is different from the rest in that i not know how to handle her pressure but the the others i do not know how to properly control a match and keep pressure on them. Tager i can do well against until a get hit from something then the tager player usually could run it back with resets and mixup that i have not figured out handle. Lambda and Platinum players aways run away from me and i do not know how to properly chase them down. Help me with any ideas please I want to get better.
Spark Posted June 16, 2011 Author Posted June 16, 2011 I just updated the Lambda match up thread with some stuff. You can see if it helps.
WolfCrimson Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 Does Hakumen's Yukikaze still have that speedy start-up when catch is on frame 1?
MAdBater Posted June 17, 2011 Posted June 17, 2011 "1- 27F after super flash catch all blockable moves" it says on the frame data But it does not say when it does not catch which i would assume to be the same. Yukikaze does not superflash anymore unless it catches. http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/hakumen.html
SansProtocol Posted June 18, 2011 Posted June 18, 2011 Super Yukikaze no longer exists in CS2. Instead you get a mildly more subtle Yukikaze that last over twice as long as it did in CS1 (12 -> 27 active frames).
Spark Posted June 19, 2011 Author Posted June 19, 2011 Technically all Yukikazes are now "Super Yukikazes."
MAdBater Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 do you guys prefer cs1 yukikazes or cs2 yukikazes? I have not have had enough matches against people to make my judgement yet.
WolfCrimson Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 @Sans, Spark: Thanks. @Madbater: Definitely CS2 Yukikaze.
SansProtocol Posted June 19, 2011 Posted June 19, 2011 @Spark: I wish the attack had a 35 frame start-up. :P @MAdBater: Definitely CS2's. It's a bit more discreet than CS1's Superflash giveaway and the extra 15 frames are so good. @WolfCrimson: No problem.
MAdBater Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 (edited) this guy today online sent a message complaining about me turtling with haku. I assume that most people would by now know that hakumen players can not chase people down with one or two magatama very well. Thanks to the forum and some readjustment i improved against Lambda. Edited June 20, 2011 by MAdBater
mAc Chaos Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Isn't CS2's just strictly better than CS1's Yukikaze? What's the benefit of CS1's?
SansProtocol Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Isn't CS2's just strictly better than CS1's Yukikaze? What's the benefit of CS1's? In my years of playing Magic, I have learned to refrain from saying "strictly better". CS1 to CS2 downgrades to Yukikaze: Loses ability to get quicker start-up when connected during superflash (for obvious reasons).Increased cooldown from 2 to 3 seconds (120F to 180F). CS2's Yukikaze is much better overall, but is now almost useless against projectiles as the quicker startup for Super Yukikazes threw people off in CS1.
Spark Posted June 20, 2011 Author Posted June 20, 2011 [*]Loses ability to get quicker start-up when connected during superflash (for obvious reasons). I just did a quick test and I'm pretty sure in CS2 when ever you Yukikaze something it's always as fast as the fast Yukikaze from CS1. Since in CS1/CT if you counter something on the 1st frame Hakumen would start to move while the super flash was happening on frame 2, making it look faster then it really was since they're not allowed to do things during super flash which lasts about 22ish frames. As opposed to the counter activating after super flash which means there is no super flash to give Hakumen a 22 frame head start meaning the opponent has even more time to move out of the way. However in CS2 if you countered something the super flash will always happen right after so assuming they didn't change the system mechanics you would always get that 22 frame head start. So even though it lists the start up of Yukikaze(attack) to be 57 frames it's really always 35ish. Hence what I meant when I said that all Yukikaze's in CS2 were "Super Yukikaze's."
SansProtocol Posted June 21, 2011 Posted June 21, 2011 I just took an hour to compare notes and different versions. The superflash stops them both and Haku starts after the superflash and hitstop. So, if you use Yukikaze to catch a projectile, they have effectively 60F (56 start-up and 4 hitstop, of course opponent receives none) to get out of the way. In CS1, you would have 72F (57 + 15) to move and 50F (35 + 15) on Super Yukikaze. I could be wrong but from the notes that I took and the notes for Yukikaze in the frame data, I think that's all correct. BTW, thanks for the info on superfreeze length and why Super Yukikaze's startup was quicker.
Ratix0 Posted June 23, 2011 Posted June 23, 2011 Hi, I just started learning Hakumen, and have a couple of questions... How exactly can I properly combo off TK/Hop Tsubaki and Hotaru when non corner? Do I air dash before he lands (Can I even air dash after his Hop Hotaru/Tsubaki?) Or do I need to land and do IAD? I tried many times, can't seem to catch the opponent at all. Also for FC hotaru, it seems a lot easier to combo afterwards, how about non FC hotaru? can I do anything afterwards? I can't seem to catch the opponent at all with non FC hotaru. One more question is, i am having a lot of problems using Hotaru as a reversal mainly because of the TK input. Does anyone have advice? I can do the TK input but mainly, I can't pull it out on wake up. Can hotaru be used as a wake up counter (like the invincible divider)? I'm guessing i need to experiment with the TK input more to get it right but most of the time when I do try, I'll end up getting countered instead. Need some advice here... Right now Im abusing Yukiyaze as my wake up reversal because I can't pull his hotaru out... But Im pretty sure it can be baited and punished much more easily and heavily.. Thanks :D
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