FlyingVe Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Yeah, anything worse than 6-4 is just varying levels of unwinnable. The Tao one causes me the most headaches though.
Hitage Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 Is anyone using any other option selects with tager other than teching with b+c? I know tager barely had any good option selects but has anything changed?
OrionXElite Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 I think for CS2, it's really important to learn a sub for zoning characters. It's just too hard sometimes to beat those bad matchups, man. Against Ragna though, I'm thinking it's horrible for Ragna now and Jourdal agrees with me on this, at least, based on the videos he's seen. I think as a Tager player, you can beat pretty much every bad matchup UP to a 6-4 in your opponent's favor. Past that, it gets really tough. Like, I'm sitting here seriously wondering what I should do as Tager against Hazama most of the time, man. Tager/Ragna is even now. Ragna isn't meant to mixup Tager since that puts him at risk, pressure is key to Ragna now with his buffed normals and the IB nerf. Dead Spike is incredible and his new 5C is insane. not to mention that even his 5D is safe if you dash cancel it. And 6A for pressure is by no means bad. You can still jump cancel it and go from there. Ragna has to be willing to play footsies against Tager as thats where he's safest. If Ragna can push Tager to the corner, Tager is in real shit as every good hit leads to 3.5-4k and resets. By it goes the other way too. Once Ragna gets stuck in the corner, Tager can wreck him. But thats just me, I feel Ragna has been changed from mixup centered to pressure centered and that makes him a million times stronger than CS1.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) You can always count on Orion to give you some tasty info. Edited May 28, 2011 by CrazyI-nomitsu
A.X.I.S. Posted May 28, 2011 Author Posted May 28, 2011 Don't call Orion a onion. Tager vs Ragna is so easy now. If he tries deadspike and he is close 360A him, if he is far sledge him, just always IB his hits so you don't get pushed back as hard.
Astaroth136 Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Guys, I'm having a lot of trouble against rushdown all of a sudden. Characters like Bang and Plat who run up 5A,5B stagger, 5A,5B just wreck me. Is 5A the only safe solution here?
Coopa Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Don't call Orion a onion. Tager vs Ragna is so easy now. If he tries deadspike and he is close 360A him, if he is far sledge him, just always IB his hits so you don't get pushed back as hard. Might have been an auto-correct mistake or something. Guys, I'm having a lot of trouble against rushdown all of a sudden. Characters like Bang and Plat who run up 5A,5B stagger, 5A,5B just wreck me. Is 5A the only safe solution here? No. Barrier guard them so their mixup options become smaller. For example, say Platinum is running up to you and mashes 5a 5a 5a, if you were barrier guarding, she should be out of her 2a range after the second 5a, so now she can't do a fast low on you anymore (but 3c still exists). Smart use of barrier guarding will frustrate an opponent AND give you more time to visually confirm overheads because they aren't point blank. Eventually, after they are at a certain distance, you can try to IB your attempts and 360 them. For example, say Ragna did 2a 2a 2a and you barrier guarded him. He's now at 5b range. Say you instant blocked his 5b, and he tries to run in to do a different blockstring, if you threw in between his dash and next move, you might punish him for being too reckless. Edited May 28, 2011 by Coopa
A.X.I.S. Posted May 28, 2011 Author Posted May 28, 2011 (edited) Funny when I play subs I barrier a lot but when I play Tager I don't barrier against rushdown, I tend to IB, break grabs, and block the mix up (Sometimes), I only barrier if I seriously feel threatened and even then I may not bother, I like keeping my opponents close. But hey the way I play match ups and what not is pretty silly. Edit: This is the cockiest post I made in a long time lol. Edited May 28, 2011 by A.X.I.S.
Coopa Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Funny when I play subs I barrier a lot but when I play Tager I don't barrier against rushdown, I tend to IB, break grabs, and block the mix up (Sometimes), I only barrier if I seriously feel threatened and even then I may not bother, I like keeping my opponents close. But hey the way I play match ups and what not is pretty silly. Edit: This is the cockiest post I made in a long time lol. Personally, I wish I could do the same, but I'm starting to think that against top tier characters, their pressure is so brain dead safe, you need to barrier guard. I like to make things as reactable as I can because I like to rely on something that will reduce the chaos of my opponent's mixup. If I don't understand it, I will get hit, but if I can stall their mixup and see a pattern, then I'm ready to IB and punish. This is primarily why I use barrier guard now, but I think it's important even for Tager to barrier guard pressure now. However, take this with a grain of salt. It might just be only me doing this.
FlyingVe Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 I've always been a more aggressive Tager player, but the IB nerfs and generally safer pressure forces me to focus on offense more than the previous games. So I guess, my solution to dealing with pressure, is to avoid that situation if I can. At least not make it part of my game plan.
A.X.I.S. Posted May 28, 2011 Author Posted May 28, 2011 Characters I hate fighting: Hazama, Valk, Haku-men. They are all annoying and make me play super safe or pick a different character. I actually hit practice mode and see what gattlings into overhead, after that I just pick up on the visual cues. I haven't mastered blocking everyones overheads but teching grabs aren't hard as long as you are not sleeping which we tend to do. I don't IB punish a lot, I use the IB to make people commit and force them to not use staggers.
Coopa Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 I'm okay against Valk because I play Orion, but against Hazama and Hakumen, I feel you there. It's some really stupid stuff.
A.X.I.S. Posted May 28, 2011 Author Posted May 28, 2011 Valk is annoying, I can react to wolf mix up better offline. Hazama is frustrating as hell, I switch between Ragna, and Jin for him. Haku is boring to fight now.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Don't call Orion a onion. Tager vs Ragna is so easy now. If he tries deadspike and he is close 360A him, if he is far sledge him, just always IB his hits so you don't get pushed back as hard. You know they are going to find a way to fix that, right? They want to make sure Tager doesn't get too good.
Dacidbro Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Bang's 5B is really bad to stagger now, it's -2 on block now. If he is running 5B, 5A as a string, you can B or A buster him.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 720 buffers are so much fun! Anyways, I'm confuse about 5D. I don't understand what to do with it now since it this the person and they can tech out of the stagger and block the rest of your pokes. Does 5D do anything special on counter? To Dacidbro: Why do you think Tager isn't bad anymore? Nate said that in one of his videos that you said.
Manta Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 720 buffers are so much fun! Anyways, I'm confuse about 5D. I don't understand what to do with it now since it this the person and they can tech out of the stagger and block the rest of your pokes. Does 5D do anything special on counter? To Dacidbro: Why do you think Tager isn't bad anymore? Nate said that in one of his videos that you said. 5D wallbounces on CH, but the timing's tight on the 5C > 6A > AC.... followup. 5D could also always be teched out of the stagger, generally the only way you can combo from it is with Asledge. It's mostly used as a pressure tool, since it adds that much needed magnetism and on block or ground hit, tugs them towards you a bit. Tager's overall more balanced now, sacrificing some damage for not having such large gaping holes in his game (just normal sized holes now) and a little more consistency, albeit with a much greater emphasis on command throws for big damage.
Coopa Posted May 28, 2011 Posted May 28, 2011 Bang's 5B is really bad to stagger now, it's -2 on block now. If he is running 5B, 5A as a string, you can B or A buster him. That was random, but helpful. Thank you for the information.
A.X.I.S. Posted May 30, 2011 Author Posted May 30, 2011 I fought a good Jin and I have thought about a rough draft of the match up. Problem is Jin has too many annoying tricks and gimmicks to keep count on. Doesn't help that the Jin I fought was Shadowredzero and he only gave me rush down Jin exp.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Well, that is what I get when I play jin. Did you start a Tao match up draft yet? I got a couple of notes to add to it if you haven't. See? I can be helpful too.
OrionXElite Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 If you need a Tager/Tao write up, I play that matchup nearly EVERY day so I know probably more about Tao than half the Tao forums do :3
A.X.I.S. Posted May 30, 2011 Author Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) Good news I got all the data on Rachel, Plat, and Jin. I can do those 3 write ups. I never played Tao in CS2 and I can still do a write up on it. Espect those to be done later when I get a chance. Edit: Rachel done. http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11534-Tager-vs-Rachel-CS2-STOMP-DA-FRAWG!&p=1017618#post1017618 Here is Jin: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?11523-Tager-vs-Jin-CS2-Death-of-Bro-con-s&p=1017584#post1017584 Edited May 30, 2011 by A.X.I.S.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 BTW, do we have combos for CH 236A follow up? OE: That's a big claim sir. I hope you can back it up.
A.X.I.S. Posted May 30, 2011 Author Posted May 30, 2011 Yes we do? CH follow up/RC Follow up>5C/6C>collider>stuff.
Mucky Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 I wish CH state would carry from the sledge to the followup.
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