Middle Tennessee Needs Gaming! Monthly Versus Tourneys - Antioch, TN

[LastStarSaviour]

Star, I worry about you sometimes.

Why? I find Mitsuru's and narukami's DPs to be ten times easier to punish as opposed to Yosuke's. Plus, I did say that I would update once I had more info, did I not? Right now, Yosuke's DP is what gives me trouble. Not DPs where you fly fifty feet in the air and have tons of recovery.

[Tophatmoffet]

Yo okay, I'm going to agree with star on this one, but not for the reasons he provided.

Surely its not the best, and all DP's are punishable, most in the same exact way, but come on now, 30 frames is a long ass time.

Its a "free" escape from yu and chie 5d, either knockdown and a card, or they back off for a second and you might have the chance to block.

Knockdown on gold burst for sure, dont know about regular, though DPing for a bait is unconventional, risky as fuck, and a lesser option to blocking.

Overall its pretty damn good. Half a second, man.

[Grimstar]

For the record, I never said Mitsuru's DP is better than Yosuke's. I'll take Yosuke's any day. But Mitsuru gets far more damage off of hers than Yosuke does.

They're both equally stupid. Because universal DPs are pretty lame.

[skd]

Yo okay, I'm going to agree with star on this one, but not for the reasons he provided.

Surely its not the best, and all DP's are punishable, most in the same exact way, but come on now, 30 frames is a long ass time.

Its a "free" escape from yu and chie 5d, either knockdown and a card, or they back off for a second and you might have the chance to block.

Knockdown on gold burst for sure, dont know about regular, though DPing for a bait is unconventional, risky as fuck, and a lesser option to blocking.

Overall its pretty damn good. Half a second, man.

LOL ok yeah sure.

if anything you guys should be complaining about chie counter

[Jackie Chandler]

Look, guys. I'm sorry, but this isn't even a matter of opinion. Yosuke's DP is not the best DP in the game.

If you think a Yosuke is spamming, just do the same thing you would with any other character spamming a DP. Stop your blockstring or whatever, let him use it, and punish appropriately. From what I've experimented with, you can use a Persona attack or projectile to activate the DP if you're not within range of the knockdown, activate the counter hit, and punish him in the recovery of that move instead. And that's only if you're worried about not being able to time your punish on the DP's non-counter recovery as it is.

And if he hits you, his reward is a menial amount of damage and a knockdown. Does he get insane Chie/Yu oki on knockdown? No. Does he get any status effects from it? No. Can he combo after it? No. Compare that to other characters who can get more than 50% of character's health bars from the same fuck-up you'd make to trigger Yosuke's DP. So what makes his better than theirs again? The fact that his whiffed DP has less recovery than them/is harder to punish? Oh, please. Just practice your punish's timing and get over it.

[skd]

Look, guys. I'm sorry, but this isn't even a matter of opinion. Yosuke's DP is not the best DP in the game.

If you think a Yosuke is spamming, just do the same thing you would with any other character spamming a DP. Stop your blockstring or whatever, let him use it, and punish appropriately. From what I've experimented with, you can use a Persona attack or projectile to activate the DP if you're not within range of the knockdown, activate the counter hit, and punish him in the recovery of that move instead. And that's only if you're worried about not being able to time your punish on the DP's non-counter recovery as it is.

And if he hits you, his reward is a menial amount of damage and a knockdown. Does he get insane Chie/Yu oki on knockdown? No. Does he get any status effects from it? No. Can he combo after it? No. Compare that to other characters who can get more than 50% of character's health bars from the same fuck-up you'd make to trigger Yosuke's DP. So what makes his better than theirs again? The fact that his whiffed DP has less recovery than them/is harder to punish? Oh, please. Just practice your punish's timing and get over it.

This, forever. coupled with the various ways you CAN punish it even if you activate it? lol. You dont even have to stop pressuring, just guess correctly <_>

[LastStarSaviour]

Just tested the crossup theory you provided Lunaris. Why is it that when I get yosuke to whiff his DP, for some reason he's completely invulnerable to attacks from behind him? Has this happened to you before?

Also, I haven't experienced Chie's counter first-hand.

@Chandler: that really wasn't the point I was making but whatever.

Edited August 18, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[Jackie Chandler]

I'm fairly certain you can trigger Chie's DP for a punish the same way not_lunaris suggested activating Yosuke's DP- by using a running aerial move.

[skd]

He has invul during the animation but there is punishable recovery, but its non ch recovery. if you want to test this yourself set the cpu to block everything, do it and time your punish.

[Grimstar]

Look, guys. I'm sorry, but this isn't even a matter of opinion. Yosuke's DP is not the best DP in the game.

If you think a Yosuke is spamming, just do the same thing you would with any other character spamming a DP. Stop your blockstring or whatever, let him use it, and punish appropriately. From what I've experimented with, you can use a Persona attack or projectile to activate the DP if you're not within range of the knockdown, activate the counter hit, and punish him in the recovery of that move instead. And that's only if you're worried about not being able to time your punish on the DP's non-counter recovery as it is.

And if he hits you, his reward is a menial amount of damage and a knockdown. Does he get insane Chie/Yu oki on knockdown? No. Does he get any status effects from it? No. Can he combo after it? No. Compare that to other characters who can get more than 50% of character's health bars from the same fuck-up you'd make to trigger Yosuke's DP. So what makes his better than theirs again? The fact that his whiffed DP has less recovery than them/is harder to punish? Oh, please. Just practice your punish's timing and get over it.

This. Pretty much Yosuke's DP is there to stop the opponent's offensive in their tracks... not for damage :/

[LastStarSaviour]

He has invul during the animation but there is punishable recovery, but its non ch recovery. if you want to test this yourself set the cpu to block everything, do it and time your punish.

Yeah, was just coming to say scratch what I just posted.

@Grimstar: You just made my point

[Jackie Chandler]

@Chandler: that really wasn't the point I was making but whatever.

Then stop using your lack of practice in securing a particular punish to determine how two character's matchup actually is.

[skd]

the argument about it stopping offensive momentum... what dp doesnt do that? <_> comparatively speaking there is almost no reason to complain about yosuke's dp. Conceptually it has the same purpose as other dp's but is not as effective as some other ones, but it has its nuances (long active frames making it awkward to punish is the most sensible complaint i can take and even then its still pretty silly).

[Grimstar]

I knew that was the purpose of his DP... So what's the point you're trying to make? O_o

[skd]

"- Yosuke's DP. Hands down, the best DP in the game. It can't be attacked, or grabbed out of from any angle by Mitsuru, and has a really good hitbox to boot. This keeps us from applying a lot of pressure on Yosuke and down right makes wake-up situations a get-out-of-jail-free card for him. It also has a very good recovery (the recovery is almost not there) plus it can be mashed multiple times. Due to it's speed, it's hard to bait and even harder to get a fatal punish off of. I've tried to preemptively bait the DP with any type of 5B whether it be charge or normal, nothing has really worked often enough to be called effective."

This. Pretty much Yosuke's DP is there to stop the opponent's offensive in their tracks... not for damage :/

@Grimstar: You just made my point

yea

[Grimstar]

the argument about it stopping offensive momentum... what dp doesnt do that? <_> comparatively speaking there is almost no reason to complain about yosuke's dp. Conceptually it has the same purpose as other dp's but is not as effective as some other ones, but it has its nuances (long active frames making it awkward to punish is the most sensible complaint i can take and even then its still pretty silly).

Well Yu and Mitsuru's DPs don't solely stop offensive momentum. They also do decent damage off of it. That's my point.

[skd]

you can also combo off yosuke's dp

the sky is also blue

[Jackie Chandler]

So Yosuke's DP is effective in stopping the opponent's offenses in their tracks, while not doing any significant damage.

And this is better than the other characters who can stop the opponent's offenses in their tracks while potentially taking more than half your health bar because?...

EDIT: @Grimstar: You just made my point.

[Seiki]

I also wanted to add some more practical insight. The reward isn't worth the risk for Yosuke to abuse his DP. He has low health and his dp does not net him any damage. It's just not something you throw out with him unless you are either desperate to get out of a situation or you have real confidence in your read (like an obvious jump in etc) It's just not practical to take such a huge risk and then get comboed for a third of your life and even if you hit the opponent they take like what 500 damage and a knockdown?

With the options already available to beat it out along with it having a poor reward to risk ratio it's not a great dp.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Seiki

[skd]

do you get a combo? it might be like really late active frame connection or something. Either way, off raw counter he at least gets a safe jump, or return to neutral, where he probably prefers to be.

I also wanted to add some more practical insight. The reward isn't worth the risk for Yosuke to abuse his DP. He has low health and his dp does not net him any damage. It's just not something you throw out with him unless you are either desperate to get out of a situation or you have real confidence in your read (like an obvious jump in etc) It's just not practical to take such a huge risk and then get comboed for a third of your life and even if you hit the opponent they take like what 500 damage and a knockdown?

With the options already available to beat it out along with it having a poor reward to risk ratio it's not a great dp.

this post summarizes everything so concisely, there really is no more need to discuss anything. If you cant understand this then :\

Edited August 18, 2012 by not_lunaris

[Jackie Chandler]

this post summarizes everything so concisely, there really is no more need to discuss anything. If you cant understand this then :\

This. Although I *would* like to know if he can combo off of it, and if he can, how much he can get from it.

EDIT: But for now, I need SLEEP. See you guys tomorrow~.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Jackie Chandler

[LastStarSaviour]

I suppose we can end things there. Ah well, thanks for some of you guys' insight on the situation.

Edit: Also, did Volpe ever get picked up? I need to know if I still have a partner or not for the doubles tournament. if not, i'm showing up for just the singles' tournament tomorrow. Could really use a confirmation on that.

Edited August 18, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[LuminAbyss]

We should all just mash dodge more, obviously.

[Grimstar]

I don't think he can combo off of it at all. Unless you can OMC it... which I can't remember if you can or not. Pretty sure you... can't?

[LuminAbyss]

Aren't most DP's like that though? Really only comboable with super cancel or something?

Not saying you're wrong or anything, Yosuke really can't risk a whole lot since he's kinda fragile, but a DP is meant more than anything to just turn the tide of battle. If that gives you knockdown/puts you in a favorable position, then it's doing it's job.