Middle Tennessee Needs Gaming! Monthly Versus Tourneys - Antioch, TN

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

I'm not saying she's not good, it's just she doesn't make me sweat like Narukamis and Chies. If you're easy to read, that's pretty much a death sentence when you're fighting a good Liz. As for her zoning capabilities I see her as more middle-of-the-road. It's more of a "I want you blocking while Orgia recharges" or a Persona breaking tool from what I can tell. It also makes her twice as hard to pressure with Thanatos, cuz she can wake up 2b practically anything I throw at her. Sometimes even maziodyne, due to the speed of her bullets.

Granted, my analytical skills aren't the best. Take these scrub impressions with a hefty grain of salt.

[Tophatmoffet]

Yo Woz, your choice was beautiful.

Allow me to share with you the only song to ever move me to tears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2KvbCdu1zk

I seriously can't listen to this song.

edit; also a new "official" tier list has been out for almost a week now. I refuse to post it here.

Not much has changed, but there's now an S+ tier and S-. Mitsuru is solo in S+

Edited August 23, 2012 by Tophatmoffet

[Papstr]

Jackie I'm in Cookeville. We should meet up with weekend for some P4U action and so I can steal your ps2 lololol

[LastStarSaviour]

OH MAH GOD! SHUUTO MATCHES!

Just when I was feeling down about this game, I get this heavenly gift:

Shuuto vs Part 1

Shuuto vs Part 2

Shuuto vs Part 3

@Kain: Honestly, I wouldn't worry about a tier list for this game. We're only like a month in and people are already deciding where characters belong? Come on now. Not to mention the tier list changes like every two days.

Edited August 23, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

Fuck tier lists. The only reason Mitsuru is considered so good is because of coup droit, and I'm sure there are characters with answers for that. That's also the only reason Mitsuru vs. Elizabeth is 7-3. I found out Star was so fun to fight because it's pure mindgames and reads when he tries to engage in thought out pressure and shit. A real Mitsuru/Elizabeth match is more like coup droit the fuck out of everything because it stops practically anything Elizabeth can do. How can you tell me with a straight face that everybody is equally viable when some match-ups are defined by a single skill?

Yosuke vs. Elizabeth? Chill in the air, throw kunai, wait for them to be oh so stupid enough to throw anything out in a desperate attempt to touch you, turn-airdash exploit counter-hit punish for damage from damn near anywhere on the screen.

Yukiko vs. Liz? Get her into optimal range and crush her with unblockable setups(why is Yukiko bad again?). Once you've got oki, it's painfully easy to lock her into optimal range. Her heal is also really weird for Elizabeth to punish. Either I'm missing something or this match-up is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. It's really momentum based, and she seems to have a much easier time keeping hers. Don't get me wrong, though; I'm not attributing any of this as bullshit. Yukikos have to work hard for this shit, and I think there's still a few options I've yet to try that'll help me negate these problems.

Teddie. . . Fuck Teddie. Fish for random hit-confirms and out zone her with an unpunishable baseball bat.

Narukami? Fuck the sandwhich, just stand behind Izanagi all day and go for safe pressure. For some reason when people punish me, their attacks break through Thanatos entirely and reach Liz(Effectively ignoring the point of her playstyle). With Narukami Izanagi is like a fucking brick wall. Other complaints I've heard are how safe his overhead is and easily canceled his dp is. I don't understand how Mitsuru's the god of this game when Narukami can do whatever the fuck he damn well pleases with his ACTUAL anti-air dp + free, obfuscated mix-up under Ziodyne.

Kanji? I don't really have problems with Kanji, but I am Elizabeth. I don't play rushdown so my input probably isn't valid, but he seems to be one of the characters with the least amount of stupid shenanigans, surprisingly.

Aegis doesn't bother me. She's really good, but she seems more like she has to work for it.

Akihiko is actually really fun to fight, because we're always playing mindgames. Will he tick throw here? Unblockable? AoA? Sweep? Bait a dp with Caesar? He's what reminds me of how fun this game is.

Chie? Godlike mix-up for days. I think my problem with her is just netplay, though. Shit's impossible to react to online, and gets stupid frustrating.

Labrys doesn't bug me as much since I'm Elizabeth, but from what I'm hearing from rush down players she's apparently got better mash than Platinum.

Shadow Labrys is legit, just extremely frustrating to deal with. Her moves seem a bit too ambiguous.

Haven't really run into any Naotos, so I can't make any statements there.

Maybe I'm just bitching and I haven't seen the whole picture yet. I know my Elizabeth needs work, but it seems the more I delve into this game, the more tactics and thought-out game-play succumb to pure randomness or basic tactics from better characters. I'm not just talking about that random factor where scrub gameplay beats out better players through luck. I'm talking about decent players turning their brains off and being rewarded for it because their characters do half the work for them. I'm doing my damnedest not to give up on this game, but it seems intent on dashing my hopes. I want to love this game so bad, and it fucking teases me with beautiful promise whenever I fight that one player that keeps me from dropping it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fighters/comments/yokx6/oct_13t14_2250_bonus_king_of_bling_tournament/

I put the King of Bling info up on the FGC subreddit. If you've got an account, go upvote the thread. If not and you've got time to spare, go make an account and upvote the thread. More votes = people being more likely to see it.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[LastStarSaviour]

I agree that Mitsuru vs Elizabeth is frustratingly retarded for Elizabeth. I honestly didn't see it at first, but now i'm starting to realise that a lot of the answers to my problems are in Coup Droit, and while this is fine and dandy, it does kill a lot of the reason why I picked up Mitsuru in the first place. As time goes i'm sure something will change about that, hopefully.

The only real qualms I have with Narukami is the fact that when I go to punish a few of his persona summons, or I go to punish him while his persona is out, for some reason he has invulnernability. Just played a match a while ago where the narukami player thrust Izanagi forward and I proceeded to DP (because Narukami was in range) and his persona ate the attack completely for him. Thus, leading to me getting punished for trying to punish something unsafe. This seems to happen a lot with Narukami not eating my attacks as his persona just says "i'll take that L for you", it's really strange. On the topic of Narukami anyways, he has some pretty good normals. His 5B has just about the same range as my 5A except probably faster and his As are good as well. His gauntlest Hades 2.0 B (his dive sword) is +3 safe on block for some reason. As for the Izanagi sandwiches, I find them much easier to block offline, even though I still say no character should be able to sandwich like Carl from BB, but that's just me.

Ultimately though, I think you're feeling like you're spending more time eliminating character bs than you are actually trying to break down and understand your opponent. There's a lot of it at this level of play. All we can really do about it now is hope that there are some strong answers for every character at high-level play.

Edited August 24, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[Grimstar]

Don't worry Star, mitsuru will get nerfed soon enough, and you can go from feeling bad about being on top, to raging for her nerfs.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

It's not about being on top; it's about being on top because of one extremely good tool, instead of a diverse set of valid tools that when used properly form a great character.

[Seiki]

@Volpe: Playing a "low tiered" character you are going to lose a lot. It's to be expected. When I watch some of the best players who play low tier characters they aren't trying to find answers to their character's weaknesses in the game. It's learning to compensate that weakness with their player skill and their ability to read the opponent's attempts to abuse their strengths. Even though Coup Droit is a great tool it still has an answer it just might be more difficult to deal with because it has a specific answer. If anything playing Elizabeth will make you a stronger player in general because you have to compensate her weaknesses with your skill as a player.

People in general focus too much on their weaknesses and not enough on their strengths. And find a false sense of comfort in admitting that they can't do anything about something. There is an answer to everything. That's why I hate looking at things on paper because that never takes into account your ability as a player. It might be discouraging to find that answer when top players who have already put a lot of time into the game still struggle, but they are human. The answer might still be out there and maybe it's your perspective that will bring it to the light.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Seiki

[LastStarSaviour]

@Grimstar: What could they nerf about her? Damage? Even that is a meh idea. if you get counter-hit by Mitsuru, you were probably doing something unsafe in the first place. There's not really anything broken about her persay. People need to stop associating high-tier with "broken".

For the record, i'm not complaining about her being "so-called" top tier. Personally, I don't think she's the best character in the game. She's at that status right now because the majority of people who fight her generally get blown up for not being fundamentally-sound and choose to bitch about it rather than just figuring out how to deal with her. I'm more or less complaining about the amount of character bs I have to shift through before I can actually start analyzing the player and their mind-set.

Edited August 24, 2012 by LastStarSaviour

[Seiki]

I am playing through the story mode and every time they talk about the "shadow operatives" they show the scene with the silhouetted figures. I'm wondering if they will play a role in Persona 5. Like one of them is clearly wearing a baseball cap backwards and I'm wondering if that's Junpei or something.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

I wouldn't mind this at all if I wasn't led to believe that this game was going to have excellent balance (my fault, I know, but still). I would be entirely okay with this if random things didn't entirely negate Elizabeth's strengths. Her pressure with Thanatos is completely crushed by certain moves, meaning she can't gain any sort of momentum, and has to rely solely on good reads and the opponent making mistakes on their own. (And this is usually after the opponent's gained momentum and she's struggled to return to neutral after likely taking a good chunk of damage). Yes, I get that the point of fighters is punishing mistakes, but that's usually aided by the ability of your character to make your opponent more likely to make those blunders. You can't really answer someone else's answer to your entire character.

A lot of times I'm reading my opponent all day and I know exactly what they're going to do; there's simply no way to deal with their tactics. even when they don't have tools to negate Elizabeth's pressure, half of her mix-up is easily reactable. One half of her mix-up is predicting the opponent's movements because the 2C frame-trap is built in, and the other is PRAYING that they just sit their and eat her extremely obvious 5D. But nobody is supposed to be low tier in this game. I don't want answers to Elizabeth's weaknesses; I want answers period. If I know what my opponent is going to do, I should be able to put a stop to it, not sit there like a deer caught in the headlights of a semi.

These goals would be a lot more reachable if it was even remotely possible to condition people. A good chunk of my opponents simply do things because their character allows it, and it's impossible to read or condition them. I know I'm being vague, but that's because I haven't fully grasped this game yet, which is why I refuse to give up. I've just got this unsettling feeling that things are skewed in a way that they shouldn't be, and it gets stronger with every player I face.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[LastStarSaviour]

You just need a counter-assualt bro. A GOOD ONE!

[Milln]

In other games, when a character's attack hitbox collides with a character, it turns the rest of the active frames into recovery frames.

In Persona, this holds true except for when you strike a character's persona. The attack remains active and does so for even a little bit longer because hitstop comes into play.

@Star: If The Big Square didn't hit Narukami, you simply missed or he did something that made him invulnerable like a backdash or back airdash or something. There's nothing that makes him invuln when he summons his Persona.

@Volpe: Get a discussion going either on Dustloop's Elizabeth section, or Mayonaka Midnight's Elizabeth section. http://mayonakamidnight.com/showthread.php?905-Elizabeth-vs-Mitsuru They even have videos for study.

I'm more or less complaining about the amount of character bs I have to shift through before I can actually start analyzing the player and their mind-set.

@Both of you: I think that may still be around because the game is still brand new to us. We're all still learning the game, our own characters, and everyone else's character.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Milln

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

In other games, when a character's attack hitbox collides with a character, it turns the rest of the active frames into recovery frames.

In Persona, this holds true except for when you strike a character's persona. The attack remains active and does so for even a little bit longer because hitstop comes into play.

@Star: If The Big Square didn't hit Narukami, you simply missed or he did something that made him invulnerable like a backdash or back airdash or something. There's nothing that makes him invuln when he summons his Persona.

@Volpe: Get a discussion going either on Dustloop's Elizabeth section, or Mayonaka Midnight's Elizabeth section. http://mayonakamidnight.com/showthread.php?905-Elizabeth-vs-Mitsuru They even have videos for study.

I'm talking more about movement. Some characters with specials that move them and whatnot seem to be drastically slowed by Personas like Izanagi, but tear through Personas like Thanatos with ease. As for the forums, I've been planning on it since the tournament. I just want to sharpen my game with all the information available before hitting up other players to ask for help.

@Both of you: I think that may still be around because the game is still brand new to us. We're all still learning the game, our own characters, and everyone else's character.

Which is why I'm still giving this game the benefit of the doubt, and my misgivings are more gut feeling than true problems with the game.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[LastStarSaviour]

It's not really that he's invulnerable, rather it's that his persona is taking huge hits for Narukami while he's standing right in the path of my attack. Maybe I missed something but for the most part, I know he was standing completely still when I threw out the DP.

Yeah, I agree with you, the amount of character craziness just seems to pile on more and more as I play the game though, making high-level play hard to really see.

[Klein]

Talking about character BS in a game other than MvC or GG makes me laugh, I can't help it.

[Milln]

I'm talking more about movement. Some characters with specials that move them and whatnot seem to be drastically slowed by Personas like Izanagi, but tear through Personas like Thanatos with ease. As for the forums, I've been planning on it since the tournament. I just want to sharpen my game with all the information available before hitting up other players to ask for help.

Which is why I'm still giving this game the benefit of the doubt, and my misgivings are more gut feeling than true problems with the game.

Yeah, I experienced that first hand. Yosuke's dash spring is a run and only triggered by a character hit. Thanatos will block me all day if he's out, which is why I don't do it anymore. A lot of characters that have gap closers have a hitbox built in and at the front of the attack, so that's why it's kicking Thanatos out of the way and continuing to travel and collide with your character. Also consider perhaps an elevated priority of Droit. Game's good, guys. You've been playing it for all of two weeks. That's not nearly enough time for you, me, Naimat, Papstr... for any of us to understand it. There will be silly character stuff, but there's always, always answers.

It's not really that he's invulnerable, rather it's that his persona is taking huge hits for Narukami while he's standing right in the path of my attack. Maybe I missed something but for the most part, I know he was standing completely still when I threw out the DP.

Yeah, I agree with you, the amount of character craziness just seems to pile on more and more as I play the game though, making high-level play hard to really see.

If you Square'd him and it did not hit, then you missed. I don't know what else to tell you, man. http://www.dustloop.com/guides/p4arena/hitbox/Mitsuru/BD.html Maybe the graphic of your sword arc hit him, but the actual hitbox didn't.

Again, game's been out for a very small amount of time. There isn't going to -be- any high level play. Especially not from anyone in ranked. Not from anyone that didn't play it in japanese arcades 6 months ago.

[LastStarSaviour]

Here's the link to the stream if you're bored and want to see Volpe and me get bodied:

http://www.twitch.tv/TBTGang

[Milln]

Here's the link to the stream if you're bored and want to see Volpe and me get bodied:

http://www.twitch.tv/TBTGang

Bored, yes. Want to see you get bodied, no. I want to see you guys stomp on faces. MTN ftw.

[Astaroth136]

Damnit Chandler. Where's dem P4A vids?

[Jackie Chandler]

Damnit Chandler. Where's dem P4A vids?

Sorry for taking so long. I made a mistake in the editing process, which resulted in very, VERY quiet audio (both game AND commentary). Thankfully, I still had most of the videos edited- I just had to take the time to process them again with the proper audio. I'll begin uploading tonight. Everything should be up by tomorrow evening.

[Astaroth136]

Sounds good. You're doing God's work, son.

[LastStarSaviour]

So salty, That last little lag spike screwed my combo over and cost me the match. I gotta learn to stop fighting Kanji players on net-play.

@Astaroth: Oh great, just what I need. Another video of me losing to Kanji. Phuck my life!

[Jackie Chandler]

Editing really isn't all that bad. It's just kind of hard to "set time aside for it" when it normally takes all of five minutes to clip out what I need and sync game footage/commentary (if even that much)- but it takes an hour or two to actually process the video.

Double's Grand Finals, on the other hand, was a NIGHTMARE. Every time someone plugged in their controller, I'd lose video feed for a few seconds. That meant EVERY time there was a new match on the T.V., I'd have to re-sync game footage/commentary. Bluh. But it's done now, so :D