Middle Tennessee Needs Gaming! Monthly Versus Tourneys - Antioch, TN

[ZomB]

I actually don't like UNIB either but I'm really hoping they can make a few changes to it that will improve it(in my eyes) and that it gets a US release after that!

[Klein]

I never said having high/low mix-ups and stuff were something I didn't want. I said, guessing games, as mix-up is not something I want. It seems the point was missed yet again. *Sigh*

Do you not understand that high/low without guessing is reactable? An 18 frame startup overhead isn't a good mixup if you've seen it a lot, trust me.

Also, it's not just you Klein, every time I mention UNiB to any of you guys I get this "the game's garbage" response. So yeah, i'll drop the bull the moment you all do.

...Prolonging ignorance because of what you perceive as ignorance sure makes you look like a mature and good source of opinions. Wink.

[LastStarSaviour]

Prolonging ignorance because what you perceive is someone prolonging ignorance because what they perceive is ignorance is also a good source of opinions.

Also, that's the fucking point. Why should mix-ups always be guessing games? It doesn't have to NEVER be there, but it shouldn't be prevelant in any game. Fuclking again, the point is missed horribly.

[Klein]

Prolonging ignorance because what you perceive is someone prolonging ignorance because what they perceive is ignorance is also a good source of opinions.

So enlighten me on why I should like UNiB, I really don't mind learning since I play fighters TO learn, but feel free to assume I love ignorance if you want.

Also, that's the fucking point. Why should mix-ups always be guessing games? It doesn't have to NEVER be there, but it shouldn't be prevelant in any game. Fuclking again, the point is missed horribly.

It's more I just strongly disagree, it's not a mixup if it doesn't actually mix up unless you get in a rare situation.

[ZomB]

18f isn't reactable sorry.

But generally stuff has to do more with the animations, you can have 20+f overheads that are difficult to react to because of the startup not being significantly different from "just standing there" -- see Narukami's overhead.

It's generally possible to OS block lows and overheads(which are slower than lows) because the lows are faster, but if the opponent delays their low you're dead.

[Volpe-de-Glacio]

In regards to UNiB, people need to realize that 1) it's a work in progress, and 2) it's French Bread's CT. The games we tend to play have been refined over multiple iterations. The game is already looking a lot better in v1.03. Damage is normalized to 3k for typical hit-confirms, and 7k combos require grind vorpal (the damage buff) and full meter.

They also have yet to even implement half the characters. Speaking of which. . .

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7904/mika1.png

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4306/kaguya.png

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/8983/lexd.png

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/7208/zenith.png

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5493/adelheit1.png

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/9595/wagner1x.png

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/4237/caius2.png

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/7458/autonomicnerves.png

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2332/kuon.png

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/4371/enkiru.png

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5291/noname1u.png

Edited February 13, 2013 by Volpe-de-Glacio

[Alphakami]

18 frames is entirely reactable, all day.

[Klein]

18 frames is entirely reactable, all day.

^This.

And out of the sprites in progress you listed Volpe, Mika looks sweet.

[ZomB]

Also is there not actually a tournament this weekend? I was looking for a thread or a post about it but I don't see anything :X

And my problem with UNIB has more to do with the fact that the normals are huge and the stages are tiny :X I'd still play it some though, and I really hope it develops in to something I want to play. (Good example of this is skullgirls, I bought it even though I hated a lot of the stuff in the original version, but I really want to see a skullgirls2)

[Jackie Chandler]

There is a tournament this weekend- I'm not sure why it isn't in the OP. :< *CoughThat'sYourCueMillnCough*

Also, GG's to Tad in Persona tonight. It's been a long time since I've had a set as fun as that. :D

[Milln]

Alright. This has gone on long enough. All of you need to calm down.

You mean like how you guys treat UNiB or Melty or any other game I happen to like? Yeeeaaahhhh.....karma, it does exist

Also, Again, every time I see Millia do a mix-up, I see people respect it and get punished for trying to respect. Very few times have I seen people escape it. Knowing that there are ways to escape it doesn't change much in the fact that it's obnoxious the way the process works.

I actually like UnderNight's character design and stuff, but I haven't played it and I never regard videos with any validity. Videos are the new "Hey, I heard..." or "Hey, I read..." , I don't exactly recall myself making a derogatory comments towards UnderNight and if I have, I apologize if they weren't taken in the jest that I meant them.

I don't disrespect Melty. I, on the personal level, find it boring because of how combo paths typically go. That's it. I won't say anything bad about the game past that. The game and the characters are cool and has neat mechanics around the Magic Circuit. Roa is a baller, Nero has a zoo in his coat. Shiki has a knife that can cut things.

Millia having ways to cover her offense, should it fail, are what makes her a good character. If she wasn't tricky, then she wouldn't be the great character she is.

I don't really know enough GG to comment on Millia exactly, but I don't think GG mixups are any more or less bullshit than Melty/Persona/Marvel mixups. When performed well they aren't reactable, the main difference would be the frequency and risk/reward involved.

I agree. I don't think Guilty Gear's mixups are any more or less tricky or involved than other airdasher games. Guilty is naturally a faster game and lots of initial combos end in sweep so stuff happens more often.

Anime fighters in general, plus Marvel have pretty much paved the way for screwed up mix-ups honestly. There's not really anything in the anime fighting game market from what i've played that has mix-ups that are more fair and/or balanced than another. As i'm starting to play them more and more, i'm realizing that these situations are becoming practiced by developers more and more and these games are being designed to become less honest. So yeah, i'm going to have to deal, or just simply not playing anime fighters (but i'm too weaboo for that so yeah)

For me, it's not the risk/reward, costs, or frequency, ect....it's the principle of it all.

Anime fighters are FOLLOWING Marvel and Street Fighter for the mixup game. Street Fighter has true 50/50 unblockables that you CAN. NOT. get out of due to option selects being so powerful. Vortexes are destructive. Street Fighter mixups are absolutely horrendous and put Anime mixups to shaaaaaaaaaaaame. Street Fighter mixups even outshine Marvel's mixups as far as how successful that they are. You can't see them. Literally. No. You can't react to them. In Marvel and other games you can actually see the mixups, it's just tough to block. Apology Man got to top 8 in SCR because he is used to airdasher mixups and could block them efficiently. Chris G, too, is notable for being very good at blocking. He'll get top 8 at pretty much any game because he has fantastic defense. Anime Fighters and stuff like that are all stuff you watch and pay attention. They really aren't that compared to the Capcom flagship alternative.

:|I really don't see why you want a mixup system without mixups. Without an unreactable aspect to make someone want to push a button, there's no reason to even go in and waste your time. At an above scrub level, it'd make the game nothing but neutral and blockstrings for meter. Which I'm sure sounds great for Mitsuru, but it sounds pretty crappy to me. Speaking as someone who lost to Snipe's Bang back in CS1 because of unreactable mixups and loving it.

I'm okay with both kinds of mixups existing. It enforces matchup knowledge, player tendencies and such for being able to follow and predict what will happen. I happen to not particularly --like-- mixups that you can't see, but i'm okay with them existing because some characters simply need it or there's no way to get around it from a development standpoint. A lot of strategies are accidents thought up from the players and were not directly intended by the creators.

Also, that's the fucking point. Why should mix-ups always be guessing games? It doesn't have to NEVER be there, but it shouldn't be prevelant in any game. Fuclking again, the point is missed horribly.

Mixups are not always guessing games. It's not really prevalent in airdashers. It is in other fighter genres, though.

18f isn't reactable sorry.

ZomB, I love you, but this is incorrect. Humans can reliably and consistently react to something as quick as 0.13 (8 frames) of a second if they are focused. Like they see/hear on 0.00, but they begin to queue a reaction on 0.13 and the reaction reaches the necessary area of the body and is carried out by 0.15 Sometimes quicker if the individual is talented or skilled. Anything longer is easy mode. Even if the animation is tricky, like Narukami's overhead or Wolverine's Purple Stuff > Berserker Slash/Cross Up Berserker Slash, it can be seen if the individual is looking for it. And if you're playing a fighter, one should be focused so there you go. It's a wonder why anyone gets hit by the slow overheads in Persona (seriously, like 21, 27 frames? That's almost half a second!) unless they're sleeping, which, of course, is part of the setup.

Also is there not actually a tournament this weekend? I was looking for a thread or a post about it but I don't see anything :X

There is a tournament this weekend- I'm not sure why it isn't in the OP. :< *CoughThat'sYourCueMillnCough*

I know, i'm sorry. Even though i'm not sick anymore, I'm still very busy and I simply forgot. I'll update it right now.

So anyway

Stop arguing over semantic junk that everyone keeps dismissing and coming back to argue over the same points over and over. This is nonsense. Since it's gone this far and everyone keeps ignoring each other, take it to PM's or Skype or in person. We're going to start talking about MTNG, Naimat's birthday (the tournament day! Happy birthday!), and planning for majors.

[Jackie Chandler]

Naimat, I'm gonna get you the best salt shaker I can steal from some random restaurant find for your birthday.

(Thanks for updating the OP Milln)

Edited February 13, 2013 by Jackie Chandler

[ZomB]

Milln it's true that reaction speed is faster than 18f(average reaction speeds are closer to 13f, and your number would maybe be the top 1 percentile... Probably less). But reacting to "something is happening there are no wrong answers" and "something is happening, make a correct guess out of the following 3 choices" are very different things Why do people get hit by 20+f overheads if they can react in 8f? You asked a very good question

[ZomB]

ON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT NOTE I CANT WAIT FOR SATURDAY. IM GOING TO TRY TO BRING PEOPLE.

[AlexSanteria]

I swear man, I leave you kids alone for a week or two and you all is fighting? The hell.

Anyways on to the real news. I will know friday about a new opportunity that may change my availability and how much I make, and to celebrate, I'm taking a trip with my fiancee, HOWEVER the part that concerns you all is that I don't start work until the 13th. I only got to meet a few of you during KOB and if it's possible I'd like to do a big get together at Kaos Theory or wherever will take us for a good night of gaming. I don't know if they do a lock in, but I'm gonna try and get in touch with them and see. You guys came and made me a team member, so if we can have a good night of training and getting ready for our next big major. After I leave chicago, I'll be in nashville for either one to however many days. It's only 4 bucks for a megabus ticket back home, so y'know, baller. Either way, I've got some phone calls to make and arrangements to make, but I'd definitely like to get everyone's opinions on this.

[Bane]

...I don't start work until the 13th.

...you mean next month?

[Boom Cube]

for niamat's birthday i'm gonna let him catch me mirin

[Alphakami]

Milln it's true that reaction speed is faster than 18f(average reaction speeds are closer to 13f, and your number would maybe be the top 1 percentile... Probably less). But reacting to "something is happening there are no wrong answers" and "something is happening, make a correct guess out of the following 3 choices" are very different things Why do people get hit by 20+f overheads if they can react in 8f? You asked a very good question

When I eat a 20f type move, it's usually one of a few common reasons for me. Either I was aiming for a few specific frames to attempt something to bust their move, or I was sleeping (usually thinking of my offense and not my opponents). In games where I don't know a punish or I'm not trying one, I'll block 18f overheads 95+ percent of the time. As soon as the option for stopping or punishing is in my mind, my block percentage goes down. I assume because the execution of my 'reaction' just got far more specific and difficult.

Chandler: I had alot of laughs myself with dat Persona. Again, sorry my stick is missing even the basic buttons to access the text menu. Fashionable. Y-You're Strong! I really did have fun, great set.

I will not make the tournament again this weekend. Deepest regrets.

[Skeletal Minion]

>Plays Mitsuru

>Claiming ANY character in Guilty Gear is auto-pilot/brain dead

For real bro?

Talent is nothing more than a buzzword thrown around when someone becomes proficiently skilled at something quickly. It just dictates how much work and dedication you'll have to put in, not whether it's possible to reach the end result (i.e., being highly skilled).

If anyone grinds hard enough at any skill, they'll be able to accomplish it. Whether it takes 5 minutes or 5 years is the difference of "talent."

[Klein]

Milln, can you drag me to the tournament again? I wanna wish Naimat a happy birthday.

Also, when I eat a high it's because I don't have half the matchup experience I had in CS1 where I could block, and I focus more on offense now.

Edit: YO MINION, WHERE MY HORROR SHIT AT?

Edited February 13, 2013 by Klein

[AlexSanteria]

...you mean next month?

Yes. I mean next month. I haven't worked all of it out yet, but I plan too. Also happy birth day Niamat.

[Milln]

ON A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT NOTE I CANT WAIT FOR SATURDAY. IM GOING TO TRY TO BRING PEOPLE.

THIS IS HYPE. I AM EXCITED FOR THIS WEEKEND.

Anyways on to the real news. I will know friday about a new opportunity that may change my availability and how much I make, and to celebrate, I'm taking a trip with my fiancee, HOWEVER the part that concerns you all is that I don't start work until the 13th. I only got to meet a few of you during KOB and if it's possible I'd like to do a big get together at Kaos Theory or wherever will take us for a good night of gaming. I don't know if they do a lock in, but I'm gonna try and get in touch with them and see. You guys came and made me a team member, so if we can have a good night of training and getting ready for our next big major. After I leave chicago, I'll be in nashville for either one to however many days. It's only 4 bucks for a megabus ticket back home, so y'know, baller. Either way, I've got some phone calls to make and arrangements to make, but I'd definitely like to get everyone's opinions on this.

Very cool. Ill ask, too.

When I eat a 20f type move,

When I eat something slow its because I wasn't paying attention or didn't know that the move could come from whatever setup just happened. Failing a CH is accurate, too.

Chandler: I had alot of laughs myself with dat Persona. Again, sorry my stick is missing even the basic buttons to access the text menu. Fashionable. Y-You're Strong! I really did have fun, great set.

I will not make the tournament again this weekend. Deepest regrets.

I comprehend.

Milln, can you drag me to the tournament again? I wanna wish Naimat a happy birthday.

Sure. Am I picking you up?

[Bane]

I hope I'm able to attend this weekend. Sid's bug might be full again.

Jackie, are you taking your clown car gamepro this weekend?

[Jackie Chandler]

I hope I'm able to attend this weekend. Sid's bug might be full again.

Jackie, are you taking your clown car gamepro this weekend?

What kind of a question is that? It wouldn't be MTN unless we cram an unreasonable amount of people into Gamepro (i.e. more than zero). :D

But yeah, I hope Sid can drive again this weekend. We've got six people in the group who want to go, and I can only (lawfully) seat four in my car.

[Klein]

Sure. Am I picking you up?

Yes please <3