[CS2] Iron Tager Combo Thread

[FlyingVe]

In this case the difference between a throw and an unblockable move is simply that it puts you in a canned animation. It's a semantic thing from the old days. By that same token most Ultra's are really just blockable throws.

[Osuna]

In this case the difference between a throw and an unblockable move is simply that it puts you in a canned animation. It's a semantic thing from the old days. By that same token most Ultra's are really just blockable throws.

So then the term throw you guys are using has no practical application.

So I'm going to continue to use the practical meaning of throw and unblockable to keep things clear. I would encourage others to do the same.

[Tetra - K]

Just tested it, the gadget is miles away from working. I couldn't get 4D gadget or spark J.2C gadget to work either, but that might be because I just woke up.

The first collider knock down is kinda cool because it just Barely works. That's why you have to do j.d whiff instead of collider whiff. If you collider whiff they can tech.

Yea, I noticed that. I tried everything : colider whiff > 6B, colider whiff > 6C, and the marvelous j.C whiff > j.B > 5C > ...

Nothing worked. I was kinda desperate and tried j.D whiff > j.2C and the second colider worked.

Ok it's not a oki, ok it doesn't end with GF but well it's still a lot of tension.

I didn't tried the 5D at the end for loltrapz.

Maybe 5D (or colider), 5A > 720VThick could be nice :3

Another thing I tried (I'm new with Tager as main), who expect a j.Throw after a throw in the corner (maybe online spec crappy combo) :

Facing corner, Throw > j.Throw > j.C > 5C > colider > SB > MTW > TB for 6100.

When not expected can end rapidly a match I think (better be online lol)

Edit edit: I really love the combo, it shows off a bunch of tager mechanics and combo paths with a nice synergy. If only it did like 500 more damage.

I kind of like this one for esthetic : (magnetized) starter > 2C > colider > (j.C) > j.B > 5C > 6A > colider > (j.C) > j.2C > Gadgeto 2900~ damage and 38 tension if my thoughs are right (for 100 more damage and same tension use j.D variation)

Edited July 25, 2011 by Tetra - K

[FlyingVe]

So then the term throw you guys are using has no practical application.

So I'm going to continue to use the practical meaning of throw and unblockable to keep things clear. I would encourage others to do the same.

I agree, it's just an outdated thing some people use.

[Osuna]

Yea, I noticed that. I tried everything : colider whiff > 6B, colider whiff > 6C, and the marvelous j.C whiff > j.B > 5C > ...

Nothing worked. I was kinda desperate and tried j.D whiff > j.2C and the second colider worked.

Ok it's not a oki, ok it doesn't end with GF but well it's still a lot of tension.

I didn't tried the 5D at the end for loltrapz.

Maybe 5D (or colider), 5A > 720VThick could be nice :3

Another thing I tried (I'm new with Tager as main), who expect a j.Throw after a throw in the corner (maybe online spec crappy combo) :

Facing corner, Throw > j.Throw > j.C > 5C > colider > SB > MTW > TB for 6100.

When not expected can end rapidly a match I think (better be online lol)

I highly discourage purple throw gimmicks, and they also aren't combos so they don't belong in this thread.

I encourage you to not consider them thoroughly because they do not lead anywhere in the end and the are plenty of more meaningful things to learn instead.

As for getting gadget in that combo, I neglected to mention if you spark MTW you can of course gadget off of it for a net gain of 8 meter and GF oki. Of course you end up giving them 31 (maybe more) meter on a combo that builds 8 and does 3.6k

[Tetra - K]

4B+C > 6B > 2C > AC > Ender (JI, TS, PL, VK [walk a step after throw] only)

I get this combo to work on RG. I will try on other chars.

You just have to delay the 6B A LOT after a forward step.

If magnetized the j.C > j.B > 5C > 6A > ... get a second colider and a GF (not sure about the GF).

Osuna, test that plz XD (on caruru XD).

Holidays are so bad (with crappy connexion -_-)

Osuna, I'm aware it's a purple, but sometimes when opponents are under pressure in the corner, after some throw > 6B > 2C > ... combo, they forget that j.throw is also an option (specially on netplay). Ok it works only one time but well, it's still 6100 so 1/2 win...

For the FC combo, it might just not be because of that you just woke up. I think the SB link just can't work. Fuck it I wanna try but no ps3/xbox around ><

Edited July 25, 2011 by Tetra - K

[OrionXElite]

Best I could get off a back throw:

4BC>6B>2C>AC>ACWhiff>6B>2C>AC>Spark>GF

j.B>5C>AC works but you can't get any kind of GF ender for it. Proration goes to hell.

[Tetra - K]

Best I could get off a back throw:

4BC>6B>2C>AC>ACWhiff>6B>2C>AC>Spark>GF

j.B>5C>AC works but you can't get any kind of GF ender for it. Proration goes to hell.

If magnetized what about j.D > j.2C ?

Possible to get a 4D > GF no? (after the second colider)

And why AC whiff? Doesn't j.D variation get more damage and more tension?

Fuck it -.-

With nothing to test 100km around me, I'm just frustrated a lot.

[OrionXElite]

j.D(Whiff)>j.2C only works if you end it on GF right after the j.2C cause otherwise they tech after the 2B. So pretty much unless you have Spark Bolt, you should go for double AC combos after either throw cause the proration is god awful

[Osuna]

Magnetized you can do 4BC 623C J.D j.2C 2B 2C 623C spark blah blah

But really, if you don't want to spend spark on GF you have to do stuff like 4BC 623Cx2 6B 2C 623C 4D 22D. You can move things around a little bit on either side of the collider, but the damage differences are so negligable that I can never remember the optimal order.

BTW I hate the new regular throws a lot.

EDIT: That reminds me, some good person should go through the back throw combos, I'm reasonably certain at least one of our listed combos is made obsolete by some other listed combo.

Edit edit: J.2C 2B 2C does do more damage and builds more heat, because it has more hits in it, which also prorates more, so in a high proration situation like off of 4BC we look for fewer more efficient hits to try and get some sort of ender since the combo can't last very long. Similarly a lot of combos that do J.C J.B 5C have to omit the 6A. I actually never go for the 6A anymore because my CS2 combo knowledge is really lacking and it's just so unreliable.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Osuna

[Manta]

Just tested it, the gadget is miles away from working. I couldn't get 4D gadget or spark J.2C gadget to work either, but that might be because I just woke up.

The first collider knock down is kinda cool because it just Barely works. That's why you have to do j.d whiff instead of collider whiff. If you collider whiff they can tech.

The whole thing minus the ender though, builds 48 meter, which is kinda a Lot. add a spark bolt to the end and you can combo into MTW starting without mag and 0 meter.

So there you have it guys, a FC only move that despite not being awesome damage (2.7k without spark>spinny) has utility in that it is plausible that someone would want to build 50 meter when he has no mag/meter and can't do any good combos off 360B, and/or the opponent is strong in Gadget finger anyway.

Edit: Manta, what is the difference between a throw that cannot be jumped or teched, hits ground and airborn, and an unblockable move? Because I have not found a practical difference between 1080 and other unblockable moves, but you have to list differences between 1080 and throws to call it one. I feel like you're muddling up what is normally a clear distinction, but it might just be me.

Edit edit: I really love the combo, it shows off a bunch of tager mechanics and combo paths with a nice synergy. If only it did like 500 more damage.

Didn't we have a similar discussion a few pages back?

[Osuna]

Didn't we have a similar discussion a few pages back?

It does ring a bell, what was the conclusion? 1080D doesn't act like a throw in very many ways, so I don't think I would have agreed with you. You disagreed with Isorropia and myself, so I think it's still worth talking about.

Fun fact, I had to look up how to spell Isorropia because in my head I call him Iso-pi.

[Manta]

Oh, I wasn't still going on about what is/isn't a throw. The discussion I meant was on 6B fatal combos. The combo I suggested was the same as the recent one but didn't include the j.D j.2C after the first collider, but it did discuss how you could B/EGadget but couldn't collider. The conclusion was that was cool to get magnetism mid combo.

Edited July 26, 2011 by Manta

[Osuna]

Oh, I wasn't still going on about what is/isn't a throw. The discussion I meant was on 6B fatal combos. The combo I suggested was the same as the recent one but didn't include the j.D j.2C after the first collider, but it did discuss how you could B/EGadget but couldn't collider. The conclusion was that was cool to get magnetism mid combo.

Oh that, yeah it is cool. But that's only about 25% of what gives me the warms fuzzies about this combo I'll probably never do. It is interesting how there are now more combo variation brought on by subtle magnetism differences. I still miss CS1 magnets, but this is kinda fun too.

I really think this one needs to be added to the front page to replace the not real one, especially now that it has finally inconvenienced someone. That page actually needs quite a bit of sprucing up.

[Manta]

Oh that, yeah it is cool. But that's only about 25% of what gives me the warms fuzzies about this combo I'll probably never do. It is interesting how there are now more combo variation brought on by subtle magnetism differences. I still miss CS1 magnets, but this is kinda fun too.

I really think this one needs to be added to the front page to replace the not real one, especially now that it has finally inconvenienced someone. That page actually needs quite a bit of sprucing up.

I found that the range you can do it with is greatly influenced if they were magnetised beforehand. If they're not magged and not very close, the 2A or 2C might not connect, so you'd be better off with 6B>6C>AC... If they are, then you're probably okay unless you just catch them with the edge of the 6B (and it's oversized hitbox).

[Tetra - K]

BTW I hate the new regular throws a lot.

EDIT: That reminds me, some good person should go through the back throw combos, I'm reasonably certain at least one of our listed combos is made obsolete by some other listed combo.

I kind of learned to like that throw. It does 1900 damage, which is a lot, and has a nice positive point : you can do a full voltaic charge just after it. Not only it add a lot of charge but it also piss off your opponent A LOT rofl...

Edit edit: J.2C 2B 2C does do more damage and builds more heat, because it has more hits in it, which also prorates more, so in a high proration situation like off of 4BC we look for fewer more efficient hits to try and get some sort of ender since the combo can't last very long. Similarly a lot of combos that do J.C J.B 5C have to omit the 6A. I actually never go for the 6A anymore because my CS2 combo knowledge is really lacking and it's just so unreliable.

Possible to GF without SB in this combo?

Will try to mess a little with back throw when I'll be home, I'm pretty sure I found something with delay > 6B > 2C .

For the fatal combo, the trap on the first page should be noted as one (since I spent 1 hour to link j.D and colider XD), but well since 6B has this prorate, it's pretty impossible to find a good damaging combo.

I'll mess a little with 2C (FC) combos to see if I can find somethin' better (but I doubt it).

I found that the range you can do it with is greatly influenced if they were magnetised beforehand. If they're not magged and not very close, the 2A or 2C might not connect, so you'd be better off with 6B>6C>AC... If they are, then you're probably okay unless you just catch them with the edge of the 6B (and it's oversized hitbox).

Did you tried to add a 6B if close and magnet' beforehand? :D Maybe it can reach 3k (which could be a nice symbolic number lol)

Edited July 26, 2011 by Tetra - K

[Manta]

Did you tried to add a 6B if close and magnet' beforehand? :D Maybe it can reach 3k (which could be a nice symbolic number lol)

Doesn't change much I imagine, pretty sure you couldn't do 6B, 2C on any grounded opponent. If you could though, you'd probably do something old and busted like 6B > 2C > AC, AC, 6B > 2C > AC, 4D, 22D. Not sure. can't test right now.

[Tetra - K]

Doesn't change much I imagine, pretty sure you couldn't do 6B, 2C on any grounded opponent. If you could though, you'd probably do something old and busted like 6B > 2C > AC, AC, 6B > 2C > AC, 4D, 22D. Not sure. can't test right now.

Since 6B > 5D > Asledge > 2A > 5C > 6A > ac > j.D > j.2C > 2B > 2C > ac do 2800ish damage and build 48 tension, I think add a 6B after the FC could add 200 damage and 2 tension to reach 3k, 50 tension, which is good for a FC combo for building tension and do some damage.

So with no mag, 6B (FC) > ... and with mag 6B (FC) > 6B > ...

I'm wondering if the prorate of 6B would cause a drop in the combo at the 5C moment... With nothing to test it's just assumptions...

[Manta]

Since 6B > 5D > Asledge > 2A > 5C > 6A > ac > j.D > j.2C > 2B > 2C > ac do 2800ish damage and build 48 tension, I think add a 6B after the FC could add 200 damage and 2 tension to reach 3k, 50 tension, which is good for a FC combo for building tension and do some damage.

So with no mag, 6B (FC) > ... and with mag 6B (FC) > 6B > ...

I'm wondering if the prorate of 6B would cause a drop in the combo at the 5C moment... With nothing to test it's just assumptions...

Get a calculator out, you can work it out. Dropping another 8% from another 6B would probably push the first AC into techability, since it's right on the edge as it is. You'd be probably forced to do a 4D 22D finish after the first AC.

[Tetra - K]

Get a calculator out, you can work it out. Dropping another 8% from another 6B would probably push the first AC into techability, since it's right on the edge as it is. You'd be probably forced to do a 4D 22D finish after the first AC.

Yep, since the second colider with j.D > j.2C is really really really short on the timing.

I learned that way that j.D variation is better after a hard time with proration to land a second colider for more damage and tension.

At the cost of the GF.

But like I said ealier, a 5D can be effective with j.D variation (with no GF) for traps and oki.

[Manta]

Realistically you'd probably pick your combo based on position, if the first AC puts them into or near the combo, you'd do an ender there, if they were already in the corner at the very start, then going for the second AC is desirable, you could probably have some tech trap fun with that.

[Tetra - K]

When my first colider put them in the corner, I always go for (not mag) 6C > colider > Bsledge > GF so I have a very low proration combo for nice damage.

Got anything better?

If I am right, 6C > j.2C > 2B > 2C > colider drop somewhere in this or the GF can't be landed for oki.

EDIT : God, I forget I tried... Ok, in corner I tested somethin' off of the mag double colider combo :

starter > 2C > colider > (j.C) > j.B > 5C > 6A > colider > (j.C) > j.2C > GF 2800 damage 38 tension (2800 damage for weak starter like 6A,2B, more than 3200 for 5C starter).

Non mag combo, after the first colider the ennemy is in the corner, you can be a little far from him so that j.2C variant don't work or drop in the middle of the combo. This effect doesn't occur with the j.B variant because proration is still low after the first colider.

Can someone confirm that it's the optimal combo for first colider in corner?

Edited July 26, 2011 by Tetra - K

[Manta]

If your collider throws them into the corner, you often want to keep them there. You've already done most of the damage the combo will do, so sacrificing a bit for a nice setup is worth it. The usual tricks are:

...623C, 2D Idiot proof, gives you a nice advantage if they bounce tech, and they usually will.

...623C, 236B, 5B, 360B. Punishes neutral techs hilariously, especially since you can do 5k off of that 360B in the corner with anyone. If they were magged, then you can end the combo with them back in the corner and get to use one of these enders again, that's better than a 720.

...623C, 236B, 5B > 4D a lot like the 2D finish with less magnetism but more heat.

...623C, 6C > 236236B (2C > 236236B), 22D or 5B. Nice use of heat, part in brackets is character specific to Rachel and Valkenhayn (people you can hit whilst downed with 2C).

...And the usual GF setups, generally not preferred as forcing your opponent to bounce tech gives you much more advantage.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Manta

[Tetra - K]

What about 6C > j.2C > 5B > 4D ? Moar tension and moar damage than 236B >5B > 4D.

[Manta]

What about 6C > j.2C > 5B > 4D ? Moar tension and moar damage than 236B >5B > 4D.

That works too and is made easier with a step forward before the 6C, although much easier to mess up than the Bsledge variant I imagine. Not sure how bad combo proration would affect it. (You certainly don't want them airteching the j.2C). Does it leave you further away from your opponent though?