Manta Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 I never seen the important of the air throw for Tager. I just do J.C, J.D, and J.B when I'm in the air. I think you can do J.B, 5B, 2B, 2C, AC, ender. Edit: CH 5D/SB, 5A, AC( whiff), 720 CH 5D/SB, 2A, 5A, AC( whiff) , 720 They can't escape, but a friend told me they can dp out of it. Is this true? Or they could just not tech at all in the air. Then bounce tech whilst holding up.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 Osuna's post was too long in explaining to something simple. The flaw is that you are relying on your opponent being obvious or predictable for it to work instead of reacting. There is some tech traps that makes it a 50/50 if your opponent tech's as fast as they can but when 720 is involved it will only work on pure yomi. Thats why in cases like these you use 360B instead of 720 because it takes less time to do and needs no buffer. If your opponent varies their tech or choose not to do it when you do 720 you not only made yourself look dumb when they get up and jump and pop you for a free combo, You also waisted 50 heat which could have been used for something far safer. Hell that tech trap you posted is a variation I use to beat mashers. Its pretty much Blah blah combo>AC they back or forward tech they fly into the AC, if they neutral tech assuming the fastest time they fly toward me and I do 4D. If they was trying to punish the AC they get CH'd by the 4D, the kicker was you can use any normal you want for this but 4D gave you magnetism which is a plus. I know am rambling on but I am a very bitchy old man. (I seriously am not though.) Why am I cursed with overloading people with so much info! ugh
Osuna Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Osuna's post was too long in explaining to something simple. The flaw is that you are relying on your opponent being obvious or predictable for it to work instead of reacting. There is some tech traps that makes it a 50/50 if your opponent tech's as fast as they can but when 720 is involved it will only work on pure yomi. Thats why in cases like these you use 360B instead of 720 because it takes less time to do and needs no buffer. If your opponent varies their tech or choose not to do it when you do 720 you not only made yourself look dumb when they get up and jump and pop you for a free combo, You also waisted 50 heat which could have been used for something far safer. Hell that tech trap you posted is a variation I use to beat mashers. Its pretty much Blah blah combo>AC they back or forward tech they fly into the AC, if they neutral tech assuming the fastest time they fly toward me and I do 4D. If they was trying to punish the AC they get CH'd by the 4D, the kicker was you can use any normal you want for this but 4D gave you magnetism which is a plus. I know am rambling on but I am a very bitchy old man. (I seriously am not though.) Why am I cursed with overloading people with so much info! ughYour post word count: 238 Mine:201
A.X.I.S. Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Ok you won. Edit: Osuna I am retarded. I should have just posted this: 11.(NT) Any combo ending in techable knockdown, Collider (whiff), 360/720 Notes: This trap only works if the opponent is magnetized and NTs. NT puts your opponent in an airborne state allowing the Collider to pull them towards you with considerable momentum when done on wake-up. The Collider will recover in time for you to 360/720 or 2B/Collider any jump-out attempts, making this tech-trap a good 50/50. Hitting 4D after the Collider (whiff) is also an option that will CH poke attempts. On block, it will still leave your opponent in close range. Trap best done from half to full-screen distance. One of the more useful qualities of it in the long run however, is that it will condition your opponent to either delay-tech, quick rise, or roll-tech. You can use this oppurtunity to get in and possibly setup additional traps. Edited June 8, 2011 by A.X.I.S.
TagerTime Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Edit: CH 5D/SB, 5A, AC( whiff), 720 CH 5D/SB, 2A, 5A, AC( whiff) , 720 They can't escape, but a friend told me they can dp out of it. Is this true? Its only good if they neutral tech becuase they will be closest to the ground and have less time to react. Collider will recover fast enough plus the mag slows their landing a bit for 720 to catch them in their landing recover frames where they cant jump out. They would only have time to hit you with an air dp, any other attack wont come out before they land. If they try anything else in the air besides a DP( forward tech, back tech, double jump, air dash) you can just catch them with collider for a reset instead of going for 720. If they don't tech continue with a normal collider combo. If they were in the air when they were wallbounced then going for collider reset is better because they will be higher in the air and have more time to react. Ok you won. Edit: Osuna I am retarded. I should have just posted this: Oh that's basically what i said, i didn't see your new post before i made mine. 720 is only invincible for like 5 or 6 frames Also lol at Osuna thinking he is always right while being wrong and spreading misinformation Edited June 8, 2011 by TagerTime
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 I'm loving what everyone said. You guys were not being rough on me. I love the advice. Especially what you said Osuna. You're good job bro this can be useful, but you gotta consider every factors besides the opponent teching a certain way. But wouldn't you agree that has the upper hand during said gimmick? I mean most( not all) of the events that can happen favor him. But that's just a thought. In the end, I'll be mindful of this gimmick. It shall be important when I need to pull-something-out-of-my -ass after being combo for most of the round type of thing.
Tetra - K Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Are we discussing air throws mid combo? I died a little inside ggs. Seriously air throw tricks are not cool because we lost the j.D trap. It works iirc if they are really high or really low in the air but that it. Frame advantage is now too low because of the j.D nerf? No more reject throw trap? Edited June 8, 2011 by Tetra - K
A.X.I.S. Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 He is too far away after throw break. Like I said if you are gonna do a air throw break setup then do it near the corner and take advantage of it. You are in the range of 5C, you can collider the jump and you can 360 a approach, if they IAD you can j.A/J.C them to keep them in check. Just do not do it on people with fast long reaching air normals.
Manta Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Just looking at the Frame Data, and here's a theoryfighter combo for you to try and abuse the +4 frames of hitstun a 6B fatal gives you: 6B FC (Forces crouch), 5D, 236A, 5B, 5C, 6A, 2C 623C.... Not sure about the sledge >5B link though, might need a 5A to pad the gap or just replace it with 2A. Can't test it myself right now since I'm out of the country. Anyone else want a look?
A.X.I.S. Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 It doesn't work but FC 6B>5D>236A>2A>5C>6A>2C>AC works. the 5B is too slow and the 5D forces crumble state which means they are no longer crouching. Otherwise 5B would link off the A sledge. with 2A got got 2.5k damage off of this omitting the 5B. I like this combo, it adds mag without spark which is a big plus to me.
Manta Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 What state does the Ac leave them in? Techable or in a Bgadgetable state?
A.X.I.S. Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) B/Egadget state. Hold on I am gonna mess with it a bit more. Edit: You can B/Egadget them but they tech too early for collider whiff to work...its weird and doesn't make sense to me. Edited June 8, 2011 by A.X.I.S.
Manta Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) You're probably in that little sweet spot of tech time reduction where the Fatal property means they still hit the ground, but the untech time has still been really reduced. Doesn't that mean if you do the AC whiff they tech right in front of you in they're mashing? Sounds good to me. Otherwise it's a meterless combo that adds two Drive's worth of mag without needing any in the first place. EDIT: Are you sure you can Egadget? That takes longer to use than Bsledge. EDIT2: Combo with B/Egadget adds 42.5 heat FYI. EDIT3: Why yes, I do have a fetish for frame data. Edited June 8, 2011 by Manta
A.X.I.S. Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 I just did Egadget effortlessly. I can get it on film when this stuff uploads or when you go back home you can dabble. I am uploading a vid of me rambling for 20mins. lol
Manta Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Surely if you can Egadget you can do AC attract > 2B > 2C > AC... Were you trying to do 6B after the AC whiff?
A.X.I.S. Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 Here is the weird thing. When I do AC whiff they tech in the air and I can't do anything afterwards. If I do B/Egadget they hit the ground beforehand. If I do j.D whiff>j.2C> 2B>2C>collider they tech after the collider. If I try to do J.D whiff>j.2C>2B>collider they tech. I tested this on Lambda FYI. I just thought it was strange they tech if I use collider. They don't even hit the ground in this case.
Manta Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Weird, Maybe it's because AC pulls them into the air ever so slightly (Because it does attract them upwards), and that that's enough to stop them touching the ground.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 It's weird I have enough time to do B/Egadget and j.D whiff>j.2C but if I don't do 2B>2C>collider they will tech. I'll diddle around with it some more in a bit.
Manta Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 AC forces a long downed state if they actually touch the floor a second time, but if they have the untech time reduced by the combo enough, they can tech before the ground. AC pulls them up a little bit, but iirc J.D only pulls laterally.
OrionXElite Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Manta is right, you're hitting a grey area of untech time from Collider. Since Collider works by pulling them out of the air and effectively holding them from the ground longer than normal, it means you need more untech time for the Collider whiff to work. You can create a similar effect using 4D whiffs after Collider. Any combo where they would normally tech just before hitting the ground, you can 4D whiff and it pulls them to the ground faster meaning you need LESS untech time to ground them. Even though a lot of Tager's CS1 combos cause them to tech after the last Collider, you can 4D Whiff>GF to make it work. Its make his optimal 2C Fatal combo work again and it lets you squeeze out extra hits in a lot of combos now. Not to mention its a lot safer to whiff a 4D than a Collider.
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 What is egadget? Sorry if that's a noob question.
Osuna Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 What is egadget? Sorry if that's a noob question. J.C whiff lowest j.2C Gadget finger. Useful in certain combos and used to be the only way to GF certain characters reliably. It does the same damage as Bsledge GF (BGadget) and builds the same meter.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 It is on the first page of this thread! why do you keep asking that!? T_T
CrazyI-nomitsu Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 It is on the first page of this thread! why do you keep asking that!? T_T Get off my back math problem. I'm getting plat tonight too. I can't wait to play her.
A.X.I.S. Posted June 9, 2011 Author Posted June 9, 2011 Get off my back math problem. I'm getting plat tonight too. I can't wait to play her. Its hard when you didn't even read the FAQ on the first page. I...violent thoughts.
Recommended Posts