[CS2] Hakumen Combo Guide

[IndigoNovember]

Hmm... Since I'm posting here more often now, I might update the first post unless ya'll have something else in mind? I'll clean up the OP a bit to remove outdated combos and add in the more common ones being used right now.

I was updating your guide myself, so I could send you my changes when I finish them (should only be in 2-3 days)? I've added in magatama regained values and damage values as well as added in new combos and took out old combos. I changed some things to try and make the guide more newbie friendly as well.

[Sophisticat]

Sure, send e'm over by PM or just post it in this thread. I'll add what you've done to the OP. Thanks for the work!

On another note, I'm not quite sure in which direction to bring the list. The interaction of mag, starter, distance to corner, situation, positioning, and character-specifics is getting more complex with every iteration of the game, so it's becoming more difficult to organize it coherently. Listing every variation is simply not feasible, which is one reason why I went with the format I did. On the other hand, even minor variations can be significant and change how the combo works out.

I'll have to give it some thought. Otherwise, we're stuck with the OP for now and the tweaks we'll add in.

[IndigoNovember]

Sure, send e'm over by PM or just post it in this thread. I'll add what you've done to the OP. Thanks for the work!

I'll need a bit more time to finish everything and make it into a good organized format, but I'll be sure to send it to you when I feel it's worth putting up.

On another note, I'm not quite sure in which direction to bring the list. The interaction of mag, starter, distance to corner, situation, positioning, and character-specifics is getting more complex with every iteration of the game, so it's becoming more difficult to organize it coherently.

I have included magatama regained for the combos in the list. What exactly would you be trying to address with "starter"? Distance to corner is something I tried measuring, but I couldn't get a good feel for how to do it, so I didn't include it. We don't have too many situational combos yet, so it shouldn't be too bad. Positioning is kinda an execution thing (if you mean positioning in order for the combo to work), so maybe an execution guide should be made at some point? Character specifics haven't been explored too much, so this could be completely brand new territory.

Listing every variation is simply not feasible, which is one reason why I went with the format I did. On the other hand, even minor variations can be significant and change how the combo works out.

I don't feel we have too many small variations in our combos, and the ones that are there are usually big enough that writing it down as a separate combo works. I did make note of places where I usually saw small variations, but there weren't many.

I'd like some help with a combo that I think might work, but I can't tell due to my horrible execution:

non Fatal Hotaru -> IAD J.c -> Gurren(214a) -> IAD J.a -> J.b/J.a -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.c

I almost got it to work with J.a -> J.a, but it blue beated the second J.a (T_T) .

[zreb]

measuring corner push

I've seen it posted (somewhere) in the past measured by the approx. number of hops it would take to move haku to that position from his starting point, since most players at least have a general idea of how far his hop goes. If you did take that path, there's a value in the system data for how far his hop distance actually is (listed as 327).

I can get that link to work on jin off hop hotaru, but TK hotaru is very difficult. I'd assume it still works as long as you can get the execution down to get the j.C and gurren to link, but I feel like if the gurren hits too low because of TK taking longer to recover from, then it may not work.

Edited September 14, 2011 by zreb

[Moblin]

5c --> Renka (1) --> gurren ---> IAD j.b ----> hotaru ----> AD ----> j.2c ---> 2C ---->(super jump) j2a ---> AD ----> j2a ----> j.c

Does anyone use this combo on a consistent basis? It's really badass and carries incredibly far, and I want to make it part of my game for badassness reasons. However, I can't get it to work when I start with 5c or 2a - after the hotaru, I airdash, hit with j2c and 2c, but can't super jump fast enough/high enough to connect j2a before they can tech out. The only time I can get it consistently is off a fatal counter 6c. I assume I need to re-time the combo so they get hit with the hotaru lower in the air, thereby having them low enough to the ground so a super jump can connect the j.2a

I haven't been able to get it to work though.

[IndigoNovember]

I've seen it posted (somewhere) in the past measured by the approx. number of hops it would take to move haku to that position from his starting point, since most players at least have a general idea of how far his hop goes. If you did take that path, there's a value in the system data for how far his hop distance actually is (listed as 327).

Using distance in amount of hops is a good idea, though I don't think the distance value would be too helpful (how many of us know screen distances in numbers?).

Thanks for the testing. Hop only, eh? I can definitely see that being true.

While I don't use it regularly, at all actually, (too much magatama used up in midscreen for my taste), I believe you just need to delay everything you can to make it work. Delay the Gurren, delay your Air Dash, and delay your J.2c. That is how I was able to get the combo to work.

[zreb]

Using distance in amount of hops is a good idea, though I don't think the distance value would be too helpful (how many of us know screen distances in numbers?).

They wouldn't, but you'd be able to assign an only moderately mundane value to corner carry that people could look at and be like "this number is higher for this combo" and then have an explanation for when it's contested and not just "some number™."

Thinking on it more, it seems not that different than listing the actual meter value for a combo (e.g. where one magatama is 1250, but most players think in terms of 'stars') but it is a matter of preference. Approximating with that number might be easier/more precise than trying to figure out if something is 3.3 hops or like 3.6 hops is all I'm saying.

Edited September 14, 2011 by zreb

[IndigoNovember]

They wouldn't, but you'd be able to assign an only moderately mundane value to corner carry that people could look at and be like "this number is higher for this combo" and then have an explanation for when it's contested and not just "some number™."

Thinking on it more, it seems not that different than listing the actual meter value for a combo (e.g. where one magatama is 1250, but most players think in terms of 'stars') but it is a matter of preference. Approximating with that number might be easier/more precise than trying to figure out if something is 3.3 hops or like 3.6 hops is all I'm saying.

We would keep track of the amount of distance Hakumen moved and not his opponent, right?

Do we have some way of measuring the distance value besides approximating amount of hops and converting that into a distance value? If not, then I don't really see a way to make it better than just saying 3.3 hops. We could still list the approximate distance value, it just wouldn't contest the amount of hops.

The total screen distance is about 10 hops. So a combo listing which covers a distance of about 3.5 hops would be something like:

(2) 5c -> Dustloop(Enma(623aa) -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c) (3136) (1.4 regained) (0.35 screen distance)

Do you think something like this would be fine?

I had originally toyed around with the idea of measuring distance by using the amount of hops Hakumen ended up away from the corner, but I stopped after I could not figure out a good way to measure screen distance (never thought to measure the screen distance in hops at the time).

Edited September 14, 2011 by IndigoNovember

[mAc Chaos]

I just say it covers halfway to the corner, or 3/4 of the way to the corner, etc.

Anyway, it's not that vital. People will figure out the carry amount when they actually do the combos.

Edited September 14, 2011 by mAc Chaos

[IndigoNovember]

I just say it covers halfway to the corner, or 3/4 of the way to the corner, etc.

Hmm, didn't think of doing it that way. Could be easier than attempting to measure the distance.

Anyway, it's not that vital. People will figure out the carry amount when they actually do the combos.

The main point of this combo guide is to keep track of stuff so other people don't have to, isn't it?

[mAc Chaos]

Yeah, but it's not an obscure detail that you'd have to calculate like the amount of stars you gain during the combo, or something critical you need to know to do the combo like how many stars you need. It wouldn't hurt to have it in there though, just as general knowledge, but I figured anyone practicing the combos would get a feel for the distance as they're learning it.

But it's still important to note things like corner combos, or midscreen combos and carry combos. You just don't need to break it down to a ridiculous level like how many hops it would take.

[IndigoNovember]

Yeah, but it's not an obscure detail that you'd have to calculate like the amount of stars you gain during the combo, or something critical you need to know to do the combo like how many stars you need. It wouldn't hurt to have it in there though, just as general knowledge, but I figured anyone practicing the combos would get a feel for the distance as they're learning it.

But it's still important to note things like corner combos, or midscreen combos and carry combos. You just don't need to break it down to a ridiculous level like how many hops it would take.

True enough. I'll leave it to somebody else to do distances. I'm having enough fun finding magatama regained values and editing everything.

[Sophisticat]

Lol, I also don't think dividing the screen in more than quarters is necessary. Most lists just go by "midscreen" and "corner", and that's plenty even in GG. We even have a section for "heavy carry", which I think is sufficient.

In general, there are only three variables to account for here:

1) Midscreen combo

2) Midscreen going into corner combo

3) Corner combo

1 and 3 are clear-cut, so it's #2 that can get a bit murky depending on your distance from the corner since your options for follow-up will change.

But overall, I don't think the guide should attempt to hold anyone's hand. We could make a very detailed list, but the player himself has to figure these things out on his own. There's simply no other way of learning the game than to hunker down and do your own research whether or not it's out there. Fact is, I find it much more useful to know what combo pieces fit together than a complete list of all combos since that's how it works most of the time. The situation can change, so rote memorization will not help you there, and that's another reason why I went with the idea of listing common "pieces". Learn what fits into what, and work it out for yourself. This is not something that a combo list can give you, only experience, research, and experimentation will do it.

[SansProtocol]

I agree to just keep it simple with just "Midscreen" and "Corner" combos. If a combo results in being able to do the corner loop, it should go into the Corner section. If you feel you want to add notes in parentheses at the end (like character specific combos), feel free to.

In fact, I helped format the combos for the Tager forums, so if you feel that some of that might help, use it. It's not going to be exactly like that because this is a different character, but I like keeping things easy-to-read and simple. If someone needs help getting [DAMAGE/HEAT] values, let me know and I'll knock them out.

Either way, happy that there's good progress being made on this. Thanks guys!

[Sophisticat]

^ Nice, I really like the presentation of that list. It's really clean and uncluttered... Unlike mine. But that's just how I roll. I seem to do organized clutter really well. *Cough* >_>

Anyway, cleaning up is probably my priority here. The format needs to be good or else the whole thing will just be one big mess.

[SansProtocol]

^ Nice, I really like the presentation of that list. It's really clean and uncluttered... Unlike mine. But that's just how I roll. I seem to do organized clutter really well. *Cough* >_>

Anyway, cleaning up is probably my priority here. The format needs to be good or else the whole thing will just be one big mess.

If you want, I can do the coding for the data if you want to just throw it in your original post. I'll just need all of the combos that you'd want in and any others afterward can be thrown in later. I just want the Hakumen boards to be as streamlined as possible with the help of the fellow Hakumen players. You've done a good amount of work in the past so I'm happy you're back.

[Sophisticat]

I'd say go ahead with what's already there, but reading over the list I think I might have assumed it was more "readable" for newbies than I'd originally thought. A lot of it assumes you're familiar with the game already as well as some of the finer points of Haku comboing despite the explanations. I haven't seen anyone in this thread complain, so maybe it's not that bad. I'll still clean that stuff up when I have time first.

[SansProtocol]

Alright, I'll start working on it some time today. Just going through a few ideas for how to format it properly for what we need.

[IndigoNovember]

Welcome to the CS2 Hakumen Combo Thread!

To take into account the numerous new flexibilities of his combos, his common strings will be abbreviated by name though they will still be written out in parentheses. If you know the abbreviation you can skip it, if not, it's right there.

Terms

AD = Air Dash

IAD = Instant Air Dash (29566)

CH = Counter Hit

FC = Fatal Counter

J. = Jumping or midair Move (example: J.5c = midair 5c)

SJ. = Super Jump Move (29) (example: SJ.2a = Super Jump midair 2a)

JC = Jump Cancel

TK = TigerKnee (example: TK Hotaru(J.214b) = 2147b)

[starter] = Can denote any move of Hakumen's or a partial combo leading into this section.

[Combo] = Any of Hakumen's combos.

List of Common Strings

In this section, we will find a list of common combo parts, abbreviated for ease of use to reduce clutter. Let's start off with the most common one.

Dustloop: [starter] -> Enma(623aa) -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c

This is Hakumen's main bnb. Learn it well because it is the backbone to all his other setups. If you are new to Hakumen, you may read how to do it here.

Ground Strings:

5a -> 5b -> [Combo]

2a -> 2b -> [Combo]

-This only works on crouching opponents.

2a -> 5a -> 5b -> [Combo]

General Into Corner Strings:

If a midscreen combo carries into the corner you can attach one of the following strings to the end of the combo:

[Combo] -> 6c

[Combo] -> 5c -> 3c

[Combo] -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c

[Combo ending in J.5c] -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c

-In this string you replace the J.5c combo ender with the J.2c at the beginning of this string.

Juggle: [starter] -> 5a -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c

Corner Loop: [starter] -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c

-Omit 3c for oki

-One repetition of Corner Loop is "2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c"

-More than one repetition can be written as "Corner Loop (2)", for example

-Any time a combo uses more than one rep or proration does not permit it, omit "DELAY J.2a"

-Each J.2c should be delayed to ensure the rest of the combo works.

-In the odd cases where you think your J.2c in a Corner Loop (1 or 2) will not combo, you should use this combo instead:

[starter] -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c

If doing Corner Loop (2), then Starter = Starter + 1 repetition of Corner Loop.

Optimal CS2 Combo List

Example of a Combo:

(8) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> 5c -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 6c -> 2c -> Hotaru(J.214b) -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(7857) (1.6 regained)

-

(8)

shows how much magatama is required to do the combo.

-Air Throw(2) means that after the 2nd hit cancel into the next move. Renka(1)(236b) should be treated in the same manner, cancel after the first hit of Renka.

-Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

when highlighted shows you the inputs for the abbreviation it is next to.

-

(7857)

shows how much damage is done.

-

(1.6 regained)

shows how much magatama is regained through the combo.

Midscreen

Midscreen, Hakumen does not deal much damage without spending precious magatama. The main focus of mid-screen combos should be corner carry as his big damage can be found in the corner.

Regular Starters

(0) 6a -> 3c (1164) (0.3 regained)

(0) CH 6a -> J.2c -> 3c (1574) (0.6 regained)

(0) CH 3c -> 2b -> 5a -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c (2256) (1 regained)

(1) CH 3c -> 2b -> Gurren(214a) -> HOP Juggle

(5a -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c)

(2556) (1.5 regained)

(1) CH 3c -> 2b -> Gurren(214a) -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (2747) (1.5 regained)

-The J.5a -> J.5b Heavy Carry Combo is harder to do than the one listed above, but it does more damage and carries further. Use the combo above until you get this one down.

-You can replace J.5b with J.5a for an easier combo.

(2) [starter] -> Dustloop

(Enma(623aa) -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c)

(1831-3136) (1.4 regained)

(3) [starter] -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Gurren(214a) -> HOP Juggle

(5a -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c)

(2094-3422) (0.5 regained)

(3) [starter] -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Gurren(214a) -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (2174-3733) (0.5 regained)

-The notes on the previous J.5a -> J.5b Heavy Carry Combo still apply.

(3) CH 3c -> 2b -> Gurren(214a) -> IAD J.5b -> Hotaru(J.214b) -> AD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (3453) (0.5 regained)

(4) [starter] -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Gurren(214a) -> HOP 2c -> Gurren(214a) -> J.2c -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (2746-4262) (0.5 regained)

-You can add in a "HOP 4c -> Gurren" before the J.2c, but it isn't recommended due to cost being too high for so little gain.

(4) [starter] -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Gurren(214a) -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 5c -> 5c -> Gurren(214a) -> HOP -> Juggle

(5a -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c)

(2658-4398) (1 regained)

-The notes on the previous J.5a -> J.5b Heavy Carry Combo still apply.

-You can remove the 2nd 5c for an easier combo.

(5) [starter] -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> HOP 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (3481-5209) (0.2 regained)

-The SJ TK Hotaru is done with an input similar to 29 5 2147b during the 2c.

(5) [starter] -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Gurren(214a) -> IAD J.5b -> Hotaru(J.214b) -> AD J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (3224-4879) (0.2 regained)

-This combo carries further than the combo above, but does less damage.

Midscreen Into Corner

You can use any of the Midscreen + General Into Corner String if you feel that the special Midscreen Into Corner combos won't work.

(5) [starter] -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Gurren(214a) -> IAD J.5b -> Hotaru(J.214b) -> HOP Level 3 6c -> HOP Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(4344-6587) (2.2 regained)

-If you start with 5c you can do Corner Loop (2).

Hotaru

(2) Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.2a -> J.5c (2320) (0.1 regained)

(3) Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.5c -> Gurren(214a) -> Juggle

(5a -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c)

(3183) (0.75 regained)

(3) HOP Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.5c -> Gurren(214a) -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (3252) (0.7 regained)

-This combo can only be done with a HOP cancelled into Hotaru, doing a TK Hotaru will not work.

-You can replace J.5b with J.5a for an easier combo.

(3) Hotaru(J.214b) -> HOP Gurren(214a) -> HOP 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (2753) (0.25 regained)

-Arakune and Tager specific.

(4) Hotaru(J.214b) -> HOP Enma(623aa) -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (2752) (0.2 regained)

(2) FC Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (3360) (0.2 regained)

-You can replace the 2c with a 5a for an easier combo.

Midscreen Into Corner

You can use any of the Midscreen + General Into Corner String if you feel that the special Midscreen Into Corner Hotaru(J.214b) combos won't work.

(3) HOP/TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.5c -> Gurren(214a)-> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(4224) (1.6 regained)

(3) HOP/TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.5c -> Gurren(214a) -> 6c -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(4687) (2 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the Corner Loop (1).

(2) FC HOP/TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.2c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(4624) (1.6 regained)

(5) FC HOP/TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2c -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(6324) (1.6 regained)

(5) FC HOP/TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> IAD J.2c- > 5c -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(6327) (1.8 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the Corner Loop (2).

Tsubaki

(3) HOP Tsubaki(214c) -> IAD J.2c -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (3575) (0.3 regained)

-This combo can only be done with a HOP cancelled into Tsubaki, doing a TK Tsubaki will not work.

-The Tsubaki should be delayed so that it is done as late as possible during the HOP.

(4) [Fuzzy] J.5b -> Tsubaki(214c) -> AD J.2c -> Gurren(214a) -> HOP Juggle

(5a -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c)

(3503) (0.9 regained)

(4) [Fuzzy] J.5b -> Tsubaki(214c) -> AD J.2c -> Gurren(214a) -> IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (3726) (0.75 regained)

-You can replace J.5b with J.5a for an easier combo.

(4) CH HOP Tsubaki(214c) -> IAD J.2c -> Gurren(214a) -> HOP Juggle

(5a -> 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c)

(3820) (1 regained)

Midscreen Into Corner

You can use any of the Midscreen + General Into Corner String if you feel that the special Midscreen Into Corner Tsubaki combos won't work.

(4) [Fuzzy] J.5b -> Tsubaki(214c) -> IAD J.2c -> Gurren(214a) -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (4557) (2 regained)

-You can replace the first 2c with 5b for an easier combo.

(3) HOP Tsubaki(214c) -> IAD J.2c -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (4343) (0.3 regained)

(4) CH HOP Tsubaki(J.214c) -> IAD J.2c -> Gurren(214a) -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (4743) (1.9 regained)

-You can replace the first 2c with 5b for an easier combo.

Throw Combos

(0) Air Throw -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (2737) (1.25 regained)

-J.2c is height-dependent. If too low, use J.5b instead. This applies for all combos off Air Throw.

-You can replace 2c with 5a for an easier combo.

(0) Air Throw -> 2b -> 5a -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c (2234) (1.2 regained)

-This combo is for when you Air Throw too low to the ground and J.5b can't come out in time.

(2) Air Throw -> J.2c -> 5c -> Dustloop

(Enma(623aa) -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c)

(3190) (1.75 regained)

Midscreen Into Corner

(2) Air Throw(2) -> Hotaru(J.214b) -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(4078) (1.5 regained)

-You may have to HOP once or twice before doing the Corner Loop (2).

-The timing of the initial 2c in the Corner Loop is when the opponent falls past the combo counter.

(4) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> Gurren(214a) -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (4957) (1.7 regained)

-You need to delay the Tsubaki cancel until right before the third hit of the Air throw occurs.

-You can replace the first 2c with 5b for an easier combo.

Zanshin/Counters

5d

(0) 5d -> 6a -> 5a -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c (2062) (2 regained)

-Does not work on Arakune. Use combo below for a 0 magatama 5d combo.

(0) 5d -> 2c -> SJ.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c (2163) (1.9 regained)

-Arakune specific. Also works on Tager if you do J.5a not SJ.5a .

(1) 5d -> 2b -> Gurren(214a) -> HOP 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (2105) (1.1 regained)

This combo carries farther but does less damage than the combo below.

(1) 5d -> 2b -> Gurren(214a) -> HOP 2c -> J.5a -> J.5b -> JC -> J.2a -> J.5c (2233) (1.3 regained)

(2) 5d -> 2b -> Gurren(214a) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (2267) (1.2 regained)

Midscreen Into Corner

(3) 5d -> 2c -> J.5b -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> 2c-> J.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (3433) (1.3 regained)

2d

(0) 2d -> walk for a bit 6a -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (1798) (2.2 regained)

This combo carries farther but does less damage than the combo below.

(0) 2d -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (1906) (2 regained)

(0) 2d -> DELAY IAD J.5a -> J.5b -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (1920) (2.2 regained)

-Character specific.

-You can replace J.5b with J.5a for an easier combo.

(1) 2d -> 5c -> Gurren(214a) -> HOP 5b -> J.5a -> J.5b -> J.2a -> J.5c (2069) (1.3 regained)

Midscreen Into Corner

(3) 2d -> HOP or TK Tsubaki(J.214c) -> IAD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (3364) (1.6 regained)

6d

(0) 6d -> WALK J.2c -> 2c -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c (2410) (2.4 regained)\

The timing of the jump is when your opponent stops spinning and begins to fall.

Midscreen Into Corner

(3) 6d -> SJ.2c -> 2c -> J.5b -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> 2c-> J.2a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (3537) (1.7 regained)

Corner

Regular Starters

(3) [starter] -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(3722-6134) (2 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the Corner Loop (2).

(5) [starter] -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 6c -> 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(4947-6134) (2 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the 2c.

-The SJ TK Hotaru is done with an input similar to 29 5 2147b during the 2c.

(8) 5c -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 6c -> 2c -> SJ TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> J.5b -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> J.2c -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(6733-8340) (2.2 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the 2c.

-The SJ TK Hotaru is done with an input similar to 29 5 2147b during the 2c.

-Can only be done with 5b or 5c starter.

Hotaru

(2) HOP/TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(4922) (1.7 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the Corner Loop (2).

(5) HOP/TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> 5c -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(6209) (1.8 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the Corner Loop (2).

(5) FC HOP/TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> 6c -> 2c -> J.2c -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> Corner loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(6622) (1.8 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the 2c.

(8) FC HOP/TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> 6c -> 2c -> J.2c -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> 2c -> J.2c -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> Corner loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(7682) (1.8 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the 2c.

Tsubaki

(3) Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(5054) (1.6 regained)

(3) HOP/TK Tsubaki(J.214c) -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(5326) (1.9 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the Corner Loop (2).

(8) HOP/TK Tsubaki(J.214c) -> 6c -> 5c -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 2c -> Forward SJ TK Hotaru(J.214b) -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(6670) (1.5 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the 5c.

-The SJ TK Hotaru is done with an input similar to 29 5 2147b during the 2c.

Throw Combos

(0) (Back)Throw -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(3130) (2 regained)

(0) Back Throw -> 5b -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (3130) (2 regained)

-This combo is for when your back is right next to the wall in the corner.

-Arakune, Carl, Noel, Jin, and Taokaka specific. Since the other 0 magatama Back Throw combos don't work on them.

(0) Back Throw -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (2531) (1.5 regained)

-This combo is for when your back is right next to the wall in the corner.

-Rachel specific. The other 0 magatama Back Throw combos don't work on her.

(0) Back Throw -> 5a -> J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (2684) (2.1 regained)

-This combo is for when your back is right next to the wall in the corner.

-Platinum specific. The other 0 magatama Back Throw combos don't work on her.

-For the J.2a after the 5a, you need to jump 7 in order for her not to cross up.

(3) (Back)Throw -> 5c -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 6c -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(4232) (1.9 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the Corner Loop (1).

(0) Air Throw -> J.2c -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(3396) (2.3 regained)

(2) Air Throw(1) -> Hotaru(J.214b) -> Level 3 6c -> HOP Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(4926) (2.2 regained)

-If you can omit the 6c and go straight for the Corner Loop (2), it'll do

(4078)

(1.5 regained)

-If you charged a Level 1 6c, you should not HOP before the Corner Loop (2).

(3) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> Corner Loop(2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(5401) (1.6 regained)

(3) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> 6c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(5789) (2 regained)

-Must be done low enough that Tsubaki combos into 6c. Otherwise just use the combo above.

-You can try charging 6c if you believe you are low enough and your opponent's hitbox works.

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the Corner Loop (2).

(5) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> 6c -> 2c -> Hotaru(J.214b) -> J.2c -> 5c -> 2c -> Corner Loop (2)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(7216) (1.9 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the 2c.

(8) Air Throw(2) -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> AD J.2c -> 5c -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 6c -> 2c -> Hotaru(J.214b) -> J.2c -> 5c -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(7857) (1.6 regained)

-If you charged a Level 2 6c, you should HOP before the 2c.

Counters

For all meterless Corner Counters: make sure you do your J.2c and any other moves as low as possible, if it's too high your opponent will tech. All combos are for the situation where your successful counter throws your opponent into the corner.

5d

(0) 5d -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(2790) (3 regained)

6d

(0) 6d -> HOP -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(2790) (3.3 regained)

-Make sure you wait for your opponent to start falling so 2C can launch.

2d

(0) 2d -> Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(2468) (3.1 regained)

-Wait for your opponent to fall a bit before starting Corner Loop(1), that way they aren't too high when you're trying to do it.

Other/Misc. Combos

This section is for all other combos which may have interesting features, but aren't optimal.

Reversals

Combos which reverse your position when being pressured in the corner. They offer an alternative to the riskier counters, though require a minimum of 2 stars to use.

(4) [starter] -> Enma(623aa) -> IAD J.2a -> J.5c -> IAD J.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c (2696-3530) (0.6 regained)

-Can only be done with 5b or 5c starter.

(4) [starter] -> Enma(623aa) -> IAD J.5b -> Hotaru(J.214b) -> HOP Level 3 6c -> HOP Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> DELAY J.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(3657-4663) (2.1 regained)

-Can only be done with 5b or 5c starter.

(5) [starter] -> Enma(623aa) -> IAD J.5b -> Tsubaki(J.214c) -> HOP Corner Loop (1)

(2c -> SJ.2a -> J.2c -> 2c -> SJ.2a -> AD J.2a -> J.5c -> 5c -> 3c)

(3676-4656) (1.2 regained)

-Can only be done with 5b or 5c starter.

Mugen Combos

Midscreen

(8) 6D -> Mugen(214214b) -> Shippu(632146c) (5400) (0 regained)

-Good if you're going for the kill since it is an unburstable 5400.

(8) 6d -> Mugen(214214b) -> HOP/Kishuu(623a) [Renka(1)(236b) -> Zantetsu(1)(41236c) -> Kishuu(623a)]x4 -> Renka(1)(236b) -> Zantetsu(41236c) -> Shippu(632146c) (7533) (0 regained)

Corner

(8) 6d -> Mugen(214214b) -> HOP/Kishuu(623a) Renka(1)(236b) -> Kishuu(623a) -> 2c -> [HOP Hotaru(J.214b) -> Tsubaki(J.214c)]x4 -> 5c -> Zantetsu(1)(41236c) -> Shippu(632146c) (7935) (0 regained)

(8) Throw -> 6c -> Mugen(214214b) -> (Renka(1)(236b) -> Zantetsu(1)(41236c) -> Kishuu(623a))x5 -> Shippu(632146c) (8141) (0 regained)

-Make sure you're not in the corner with your opponent or else 6c will whiff.

Edited September 24, 2011 by IndigoNovember

[Nakkiel]

While this is nitpicky, you really should not use 5C as a starter for combos/damage values. Something like 2A or 2B is more realistic and common.

[IndigoNovember]

Double posting because I hit the character limit. Or not, thank you sG. I've chosen to stick with 5c because this is an "Optimal combo list" and since it is optimal, I assumed we should go with the highest damage possible. It is true though that 5a -> 5b, 2a -> 5a -> 5b, or 2a -> 2b would be a lot more practical. That should probably be noted somewhere (>_>) .

Moving into my college apartment screwed everything up (T_T) . Anyways, changes I've made include adding damage values and magatama regained values as well as highlighted them. I've also added a few combos and taken out a few combos. I chose to include what the abbreviations stood for in Spoiler tags for the people who don't remember right off the bat. I included a few character specific combos I found, though the lists of who they work on are not complete for the most part. I've also combined the Heavy Carry combos with the normal list (I believe that they fit optimal combos more than being some other combo). I've added in commands for moves if people don't know the names. I added in a "General Into Corner Strings" section.

Also, I'd like some people with better execution than me to test something that I just remembered. Challenge 8 shows that you can Tsubaki -> HOP Level 1 6c -> HOP 2c -> Corner Loop (2) . I was wondering if the extra hops were universal or not? I believe they aren't, but with my execution I can't really tell.

Once again, sorry for this being so late, but I hope you can use this somehow.

Edited September 23, 2011 by IndigoNovember

[mAc Chaos]

Optimal doesn't just mean damage though, it's more like "what you'll be able to use in a real match." I mean, 6C Fatal combos used to have astronomical damage but they weren't really practical.

[IndigoNovember]

Optimal doesn't just mean damage though, it's more like "what you'll be able to use in a real match." I mean, 6C Fatal combos used to have astronomical damage but they weren't really practical.

I felt 5c was still practical and I didn't really want to gimp Hakumen's potential damage by starting everything with 5a -> 5b even though that is more practical. If everyone feels that it's better to just use 5a -> 5b I'll go redo the damage and magatama regain values.

[mAc Chaos]

Nah, it's fine. Knowing your 5C damage is still useful.

[Sophisticat]

By God, he posted it! And it's huge! :O

Good job, IN. I'll look it over tomorrow and put it up asap.

-----

For now, I also agree in that 5c as a starter is iffy. You'll note that I put "[starter]" in front of most combos not just for aesthetic reasons: the starter can modify the combo itself on top of doing more/less damage due to proration values. If you're ambitious, including the low dmg values w/ modified strings for lesser starters would make the list more complete.

But that one's your call since it's a heck of a lot of work. You've done plenty, and that's real awesome all on its own.

-----

As for challenge 8, it has to do with how high the 6c hits. If you do 6c after Renka(K), then max delay 6c will result in hop -> 2c being possible. It's very tight, but doable. I believe Ryokoalways posted the exact mechanics a while back, so this is all I remember. Spark should be able to answer this one more precisely since I think Ryoko's got his own career now to take care of.