sergetrigger Posted May 27, 2011 Posted May 27, 2011 (edited) This is my own personal opinion. So correct me if I'm wrong. I just played a couple of matches against a real good Rachael player... And it's bringing back memories of CT Rachael. Be prepared to be zoned, rushed and pressured just like the good ol' days. She can zone you just by flying around and launching poles at you. She can rush you FROM AFAR by wind air dashing low to the ground which is pretty much a full screen dash with a crazy amount of speed. Be always prepared for this. She can keep pressure on you by either using the pumpkin/frog/poles. Her aerials will beat yours, her 2a low profiles your j.c and will be in her favor, and the cat chair feels like it has gotten A LOT faster and doesn't require her to use wind to combo off of it. The frog can be summoned twice, making her oki game a nightmare for you. Her wind super, I think tempest dahila, DOESN'T WASTE WIND METER! Oh and with the inclusion of new air unblockables, her cannon becomes very annoying when approaching. Don't bother with blockstrings that much because she can cat chair out of it. I was cat chair'ed out of 5a 5b 2b. Honestly, it feels like her cat chair is her inferno divider based on the fact that if it misses, BAM, ANOTHER CAT CHAIR! Also don't bother with 5c for anti air, since you're gonna have to be pretty much psychic for it to connect. 6c worked but imo, it didn't give that many options mid screen and it usually sends her too far up for j.d to connect, I can't do 6c IAD j.4c yet so I'm not sure if it would even work. EDIT Oh yeah, against her oki, 6d + teleport (I would say B is the best one in this fight) is your best friend if they're using the frog for oki. It's usually gonna be frog oki into fork. The fork has some weird properties, sometimes it wouldn't catch me, or sometimes the fork will make rachel turn around after the attack start up and still catch you. So use your best judgement. Edited May 29, 2011 by sergetrigger
SlyStrife Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Ok, I was fighting this one Rachel and I swore that she just 2C'ed outta my blockstring. She didn't even block first... was I seeing this right or am I just making things up?
Justice7541 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 This fucking thread. 1) Cat chair isn't a reversal. It isn't even invul, just throw the shit out of it. Alternately just block it and free combo. 2) How are you missing her 2A with j.C? That move hits Tao crawling. 3) Don't even try to guardpoint frog. Rachel's mixup isn't particularly amazing or hard to react to since she doesn't have j.2C overhead anymore so block it and use your best judgment. Trying to guardpoint frog is just asking to be punished since you can't teleport or tech. 4) Tempest Dahlia never used up wind. If she throws that out randomly you can just run in and command throw her and that'll usually get you through the entire barrage of projectiles.
DLM UNDEAD Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 3)You actually can teleport off of a guardpoint on the frog. Rachels mix-up is actually decent. (with wind) She has the fastest overhead in the game (j.a) which is easy to use on bang because he has a tall crouching hitbox. 4)In CS Tempest Dahlia required 1 wind gauge for use. And all the rachels i have fought DO NOT throw out tempest dahlia at close range (or randomly for that matter) Most throw it out to regen wind or get a free mix-up, since you are pretty much forced to block it at long ranges.
Justice7541 Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Really? I know you couldn't in the other games. Maybe they fixed it. And yeah I guess j.A is an overhead again.
sergetrigger Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 (edited) 1)Cat chair is a reversal, it's pretty much her version of inferno divider. It can/will help her escape blockstrings, especially with IB. 2) J.c gets beaten by 2a. 3) You could always teleport off frogs, even back in CT. You just gotta time it right. 4) CS1 Tempest Dahila always used up wind, to get king george, she needed max wind. CS2, it doesn't drain any at all, and yeah, it's used to recharge wind meter now. Oh, she can move after King George comes out. Edited June 1, 2011 by sergetrigger
Justice7541 Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 1) No it's not. It's guardpoint on 3f and isn't throw invul. It's about as reversal as Bang's 5D. 2) Do it from higher up. 3) Maybe at the end of it. Kind of pointless by that time though.
sergetrigger Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 3) Maybe at the end of it. Kind of pointless by that time though. What? How the hell would you teleport at the end of it? You just teleport as soon as the frog glows, which can give you a good escape if you use c teleport or a counter hit with a teleport which is risky.
Justice7541 Posted June 1, 2011 Posted June 1, 2011 Actually you're right it does work now. I'm pretty sure it didn't work in CT or CS1 though. The whole no teleporting on multihit moves thing.
YukiBlue Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Bait Cat Chair >9000 options after. Universal Tactic.
Dacidbro Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Ironic that someone acting like the people posting were retarded would be completely wrong on the info he posted on both guard-pointing George and Rachel's mix up.. This is a difficult matchup now. Baiting Cat chair actually matters now, where in CS1 it probably didn't. Also, 2A 5B is probably a big enough gap for 2C even without IB, so be extremely careful about that. If you're quick on your feet, you can run something like 2A 5B (Visually confirm cat-chair) 6D and get a guaranteed counter hit 6D, which is probably Bang's best starter in all regards, especially mid screen. Nails will be useful, particularly poison nail air-dash, to force Rachel to worry about committing and also have to deal with another venue of approach. Don't run out though! You run out of nails, you can kiss your ass goodbye without some intensely risky payouts. 3C may be worthwhile, dependent on your opponent. In a lot of matchups, Bang is rewarded for 3C now where it used to be he would press 5B at no risk; similar case here. Where you used to use 5B, consider 3C instead. 6D might pay you off on defense, just realize it's easily baited with certain strings. Near perfect timing/reaction will increase your possibility of reward though, if you can always teleport behind just as the next move comes out, you will have a much higher probability of hitting it than ever before because of the new speed. IB 5A will be Bang's go-to meterless reversal in most circumstances, though(lol). Bumpers are good, just make sure you still have nails.
wuku Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 Dash 3C is really powerful tool to beat up Rachel's seed+pumpkin zoning. At the mid or far range, your dash 3C can beat up all Rachel's seeds, except no wind A seed. You should be cautious on using many of your mixups; 2A - 5B, Overhead thing (maybe 6B?), voltex (6D or 5D). Cat chair destroys all your mixups and leads 5k dmg.
Dacidbro Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 (edited) You should be cautious on using many of your mixups; 2A - 5B, Overhead thing (maybe 6B?), voltex (6D or 5D). Cat chair destroys all your mixups and leads 5k dmg. Yes, definitely, unless the Bang player is capable of a counter reaction 6D cancel. Oh, I hadn't even realized that if Rachel sees any guard point at all she can push 2C without any thought at all.. man that's scary. So use guardpoints extremely rarely, then.. which leaves very few defensive options. Her mix up is going to tear through Bang Edited June 2, 2011 by Dacidbro
YukiBlue Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Does Silpheed affect Nails? I've never thought about this or fought enough Rachels with Bang to notice. Or does it not affect projectiles?
kotokot Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Does Silpheed affect Nails? I've never thought about this or fought enough Rachels with Bang to notice. Or does it not affect projectiles? no wtf with this catchair thread?
Justice7541 Posted June 3, 2011 Posted June 3, 2011 Wind only affects Rachel's own shit and the characters themselves.
lolRee Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Wtf with cat chair thread? lol 2C is a huge tool Rachel has against Bang so...yeah. Quick note on that, take what damage you can get off a baited 2C sure, but if you have time, make it hurt. You can CH any move you want for free if she doesn't Rapid. Don't just go for the normal crouch combo @ 2k. I like the 3C fatal because of the little extra push it gives, but that's just habit. As far as her mix-up is concerned, her 4B w/ wind overhead is too slow. You can 5A on reaction and get a free combo w/o IB or anything fancy. I kept trying to 6D but the guardpoint was actually too early. Having said that, if she has impish out and wind blows, whatever normal to 4D becomes a real blockstring due to the eztra pumpkin hit. It's also worth noting what her jump cancelable normals are. 5A, 5b, and 6B. If you're afraid of j.A instant overheads, that's where it's coming from. And 3C trades/beats with Tempest Dahlia lvl. 3 and below and stops the remaining hits if you space it well.
huey253 Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Wtf with cat chair thread? lol 2C is a huge tool Rachel has against Bang so...yeah. Quick note on that, take what damage you can get off a baited 2C sure, but if you have time, make it hurt. You can CH any move you want for free if she doesn't Rapid. Don't just go for the normal crouch combo @ 2k. I like the 3C fatal because of the little extra push it gives, but that's just habit. As far as her mix-up is concerned, her 4B w/ wind overhead is too slow. You can 5A on reaction and get a free combo w/o IB or anything fancy. I kept trying to 6D but the guardpoint was actually too early. Having said that, if she has impish out and wind blows, whatever normal to 4D becomes a real blockstring due to the eztra pumpkin hit. It's also worth noting what her jump cancelable normals are. 5A, 5b, and 6B. If you're afraid of j.A instant overheads, that's where it's coming from. And 3C trades/beats with Tempest Dahlia lvl. 3 and below and stops the remaining hits if you space it well. unless you are close to the corner, FC 3C still leads into less than 3k
lolRee Posted August 13, 2011 Posted August 13, 2011 Good point, if they're in the corner, maybe go for the TK palm thrust for that Fatal combo. What do you think is best from there? W/o heat of course.
huey253 Posted August 14, 2011 Posted August 14, 2011 around 5k. risk vs reward is skewed midscreen, its pretty fair in the corner lol
lolRee Posted August 14, 2011 Posted August 14, 2011 wait, I misunderstood your last post huey. 3C fatal 2b>6c>IADj.4c j.623b dash (5c>)6d>623b>5b>2b>6c>j.c is netting me 4k as I'm typing this from midscreen. I guess be aware of where you are. I'm not entirely sure of what you mean by risk vs. reward in this context.
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