CrescentSaber Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 I have never heard of that happening until now. Odd. Also, what you anyone say are the best options after being caught with gadget finger? If I have a charge I know I go for 236D but that's risky.
Kiba Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 (edited) You should never use 236D after a GF. He can throw you out of it with 360A, and even backdash and use 360B. It's really not in your favour with that move and you'd be playing with your life. If you have no stock, you could: Backdash - but his 5C/sledge can catch you Jump - but his AC can catch you Stand and block/Attack- but he can throw you It's all a guessing game. Do not use 623A either or her DD. Both of which can be beaten with a sledge. If you have stock you can use 623D - J.236D - J.214D but Tager stilll has ways to deal with it one of which he cant do because he cant dash. He can anticipate the move and 2C you on reaction. Edited October 10, 2011 by Kiba
Airk Posted October 10, 2011 Posted October 10, 2011 It's kinda a stupid guessing game - VERY rock paper scissors. Tager's options are: Throw/360 - beats blocking, jabs, loses badly to jumps, somewhat to backdashes. Atomic Collider - Beats jumps, loses horribly to everything else. 5C/Sledge - Beats backdash, breaks even vs blocks and jumps (as long as you jump and block), loses badly to jabs Jabs - beats jabs, jumps, backdash gets away. Probably Tager's safest option. Nothing/Backdash - Beats any sortof reversal, loses advantage to jabs or just about anything else. The thing is that, really, Tager isn't at an advantage after Gadget finger, per se - almost all of his options will get him pounded hard if you out-guess him, but they all pay off well if he outguesses you. So put on your mindgames hat.
pktazn Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) Please don't have a general discussion in the match-up threads. EDIT: Moved the posts to Tsu GD. This a risky thing to do after Gadget Finger but sometimes it works and you get a nice CH. Warning (again), it's hella risky but you can use 22A after Gadget Finger and get a CH if they use a move that won't beat it out into the CH 22A IAD combo. It's more of a one-trick thing than anything else but you can surprise them. Edited October 11, 2011 by pktazn
HajinShinobi Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 My bad Pk. :s But about the Gadget Finger OTG, 623A gets beat by Sledge as Kiba mentioned, but it's one option I tend to keep open when I predict Tager will attempt to throw/AC/jab me. If I dont use 623A I'll either backdash or jump back because I dont like standing there and blocking after GF, it forces even more mindgames on you. Because not only do you have to guess between 5A/Throws, but he can start a new blockstring as well and toss in a command grab at anytime to keep you wary.
Airk Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Well, standing and blocking beats Atomic Collider (in that you can react and facepunch him) if he's expecting you to jump, and the payoff is much better than 623A vs Atomic Collider.
HajinShinobi Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 True, but then you'd have to consider the options he has if you stand and block. I think what he does on a blocked standing opponent than a jumping opponent after a Gadget Finger is much worse for the opponent.
Airk Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 It's all about conditioning. Oh, and note: Be aware of how much heat Tager has - if he has 50+, MagnaTech Wheel beats EVERYTHING except block and jumpblock. Jumpblock is probably your safest choice, because normal block can give you a bad case of Genesic Emerald Tager Buster.
CrescentSaber Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I've learned that it depends LARGELY on the kind of tager player your up against. Through experience I've found that some like to do throws more and others like to try and combo or reset after GF. I even fought one how did nothing after a successful GF before. So I do like to have 623D as an option but since it's a guessing game, you just have to learn how he plays and hope for the best. Also another idea I had but to beat throws would TKj.214D be of any use? I had the idea when I was doing some matches yesterday and was just curious if it had any practical uses.
HajinShinobi Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I'm gonna have to review every post in this matchup again because I fucked up really badly against Orion tonight..
Kiba Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Anything in particular you'd like to dicuss? I'm quite interested.
HajinShinobi Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) I dont really think I have much to discuss outside of a few things, since you guys already explained the matchup pretty thoroughly. It's just one of the few I lack alot of experience in since I dont fight Tager that often. Tager's GF > Sledge - caught my backdashes everytime and he combo'd off of it. Tager's GF > Sledge - went through wakeup distortion. Tager's GF > Sledge - obviously ate 623A, but not 623D. I was able to jump away after GF but sledge kept me close to Tager because of blockstun. I never got AC'd after jumping though. Tager high jumping at me, I learned to keep him honest with that type of approach with some well timed 2C AA. You guys are definitely right about the use of the 22X series, I used alot of 5B/5BB > 22C/22D to keep him at bay. Often times just the 5B allowed me to get in and start pressuring him abit. But he started IB'ing quite well, so I'd Charge Cancel and jump away. I learned the hard way that 236X series isnt always the most efficient way getting in on Tager because of 360s and 720s (Orion's yomi is scary). I got to the point where I'd starting faking with 236A and then running in with 2A or 5B because he wasnt expecting me to do that. Almost everytime I made a run in approaching, I hit confirmed and took em to the corner with a DP Whiff combo. After playing him, the real problem I'm having is knowing how to block Tager correctly, and I dont know when its the correct time to try interrupting him either. Edited October 15, 2011 by HajinShinobi
Kiba Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Tbh, you shouldn't have to get in on Tager at all. It's Tager who has to get to you. Tbh I wouldn't focus on trying to interrupt Tager's strings, because I'm too set out on trying to GET THE FUCK OUT. The only thing I do interrupt is 5D - 236B(B Sledge) with 5A - combo. Remember if he's high jumping at you, you can use 214D or even throw him. Take this match for example. This perfectly sets it out (with a few of my personal disagreements) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StFNYPV7WFQ
HajinShinobi Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Tbh, you shouldn't have to get in on Tager at all. It's Tager who has to get to you. Tbh I wouldn't focus on trying to interrupt Tager's strings, because I'm too set out on trying to GET THE FUCK OUT. The only thing I do interrupt is 5D - 236B(B Sledge) with 5A - combo. Remember if he's high jumping at you, you can use 214D or even throw him. Take this match for example. This perfectly sets it out (with a few of my personal disagreements) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StFNYPV7WFQ Well the thing is, he CH'd all my air throw attempts, so I stopped trying to throw him out of the air. I guess I'm doing it too late or something. I gotta remember to use 214D on air approaches too. Watching that match gave me real good insight on what I should be trying to do, thanks for that.
Kiba Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Condition him. You can begin by AA'ing him if he's jumping in. He will then start jumping in and trying to beat your AA with J.2C (which 95% of time will beat you out since timing it can be a bitch) Then, if you're really good at AA'ing, the player may start to be more cautious and barrier more against you, in which you could go back to method 1 (air throwing) or going for 2C - Pressure/22C. Alternatively if he's still mixing in attacks and someone may be bad at timing AAs with Tager's J.2C, run underneath him and start from square one. It's near...psychological. 214D when he's closer to the ground btw, because J.2C can cause you to get hit and make it whiff. If he blocks it quickly followup with 22D. A blocked 214D on IB can be 360'd.
HajinShinobi Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Yeah I ran right underneath to the other side a few times, but that was due to me getting farther away from the corner. I think I did 2C AA him abit more than he hit me with j.2C air approaches, because he did start barrier blocking from jump and high jump approaches abit more. The times he did catch j.2C on CH hurt ALOT though. This is more stuff I'll keep in mind while playing Tager though.
CrescentSaber Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 Ok from what a lot of guys have said, trying to play aggressively against Tager isn't the way to go is it? I ask this because whenever I've gone up against him, I tend to do better when I play more re actively. I watch what he does, act according to how he comes at me and take the opening when I see them as opposed to trying to force my way in on him. That second method usually leaves me pretty sad.
pktazn Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 The only ones I've seen who play aggressively against Tager are people who can zone him or have good pressure/mix-up. I just wait for them to do something for the most part since any other time I've tried to be overly aggressive he lol'd all over me. It all depends on how the player plays him though. If they're aggressive I usually wait and react, if they're more passive I'll carefully approach them.
Airk Posted October 22, 2011 Posted October 22, 2011 You can play aggressively, you just have to do it smart. There are lots of times when there's really nothing Tager can do - if he doesn't have 50 heat, frankly, rush the crap out of him, because he doesn't really have options. If the player is really on the ball, he can IB 2BB and go for 360A, but that's easily avoided by mixing in 5C/6A instead of 2BB. He can also IB>360A after 5C© if you go for 6B or 22C, but 22B is a frame trap for that that'll hit him every time. It's only once Tager has enough heat for a 720 that there's really any reason not to rush the hell out of him. Once he has 50 heat, you need to start playing shenanigans and trying to either stay out of range or bait the 720 (Be careful of using too many jumpins as well, because he can use MagnaTech Wheel against those). But as soon as he's below 50 heat again, go right at him. I mean, obviously you shouldn't do stupid things that leave you way negative, and there are several things you shouldn't do while magnetized (Unblockable resets, 22A are the ones that leap to mind) but overal, being on the offense against Tager is much better than being on the defense and potentially getting magnetized/mixed up.
Kiba Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 If the player is really on the ball, he can IB 2BB and go for 360A, but that's easily avoided by mixing in 5C/6A instead of 2BB. If you use 6A against Tager you're asking to be thrown. It's not hard for Tager to react to at all.
Airk Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 If you use 6A against Tager you're asking to be thrown. It's not hard for Tager to react to at all. Depends on whether they were focusing on doing an IB > 360A or not, I think. But yeah, it's certainly the less safe of the options there. The gist, though, is that Tager being able to IB>360A the 2BB > 5C gatling isn't that big a deal if you mix it up by skipping 2BB irregularly.
CrescentSaber Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 Yeah I learned to stop using 2BB so much when my opponent is blocking. Sometimes I'll start with it if I see the opening like I'll poke up close with 5A and 2A then maybe 2BB>5B>combo.
Airk Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 Yeah I learned to stop using 2BB so much when my opponent is blocking. Sometimes I'll start with it if I see the opening like I'll poke up close with 5A and 2A then maybe 2BB>5B>combo. It's worth pointing out that this is safe - 2BB > 5BB is airtight and cannot be reversed. Tager can IB>720 2B>2BB (though you can screw this up by delaying 2BB) or 5BB>5C though, so be watchful once he gets to 50 heat. When fighting Tager, more than almost anyone else in the cast except maybe Hazama, it's crucial to keep an eye on your opponent's heat.
CrescentSaber Posted October 26, 2011 Posted October 26, 2011 Yeah I've learned that the hard way lol. But another thing that gets me is magnetism. When I get magnetized I find it REALLY hard to do much of anything. Is it best to just back off when you get magnetized or pressure him before he can set you up?
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