Ginseng Posted May 12, 2011 Posted May 12, 2011 Discuss the vs mu-12 matchup here! Things to look out for: Mu's okizeme game using steins. j.C DP 2C anti-air AIR THROW her 236D can hit you while you are hitting her. Things you can abuse: 236x and j.214x to get in. Your mobility.
SolarMisae Posted June 26, 2011 Posted June 26, 2011 So I don't play Tsubaki, but I'm really curious as to what kinds of things I can expect Tsubaki to be using against me. I've been fighting her a lot lately so knowing both sides would be great.
LunarSelenia Posted June 26, 2011 Posted June 26, 2011 My only observations of our battles of Tsubaki vs. Mu has been (and you're the only serious Mu I've ever played against, I don't count Toka): -Momentum, momentum, momentum. -Tsubaki's ground mobility has been able to shut Mu down if she tries to set up ground steins (don't know about aerial steins though). Totsuka (depending on how much steins are out, or how much Mu can throw out before Tsubaki is in her face) and Habaya can keep her away. Totsuka (236D) still sends out the laser even if she's hit, there are a FEW rare times that I actually poke Mu out before she can even send out the laser and go into a combo, but usually if I end up running towards her when she sends out Totsuka I end up blocking it + Mu blockstring. Also note that Totsuka is useless with only one stein out (doesn't last as long, kills the stein = waste). -Baiting DPs are fun, I've kinda picked up when she'll throw out a DP (but this is because I've played Solar a LOT) which leads me to just STOP, let her DP and 5BB > combo. But at the same time, if you're hit it gives her enough opportunity to throw out a stein once you're pushed back. Two steins I'm not sure (we can probably test that out later), but even if she could send out two steins she cannot activate her 236D before Tsubaki is probably in her face again. -Tsubaki shouldn't be in the air on Mu. Ever. As mentioned above, her Air Throw and the range on j.C will mess with her. -It's advised to Mu to not let Tsubaki's charge. Tsubaki's shouldn't get greedy, but even if the Mu throws out enough steins and activates Totsuka, once you learned how to maneuver around it, it's not that scary. From personal experience I have gotten an exploding stein to the face or a 6C when I tried to charge but after realizing how fast Tsubaki is, I started using that to my advantage and now I barely get hit out of charge now. If anything, if not for Totsuka, it'll probably make the Mu approach you.. This is what I have so far...granted I've only been playing Tsubaki for like...a month and she was my sub during that time. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but that's just my basic observations of the matchup.
EdWORLD Posted July 3, 2011 Posted July 3, 2011 214D > Arrows of Heaven. 214D > Sword of Decimation. 214D > 5C. Basically, 214D is amazing and should be abused for ground pressure, and used as a follow up for 236C and 236D for some extra cross up craziness. Be careful with abusing 236 to get in when there's steins, as Mu can use the explosion to stop you and get a free CH combo. Like previously stated, it's not advised to fight Mu air to air as j.C basically owns all of your options, including the j.214 series.
LunarSelenia Posted July 4, 2011 Posted July 4, 2011 214D > Arrows of Heaven. 214D > Sword of Decimation. 214D > 5C. Basically, 214D is amazing and should be abused for ground pressure, and used as a follow up for 236C and 236D for some extra cross up craziness. Be careful with abusing 236 to get in when there's steins, as Mu can use the explosion to stop you and get a free CH combo. Like previously stated, it's not advised to fight Mu air to air as j.C basically owns all of your options, including the j.214 series. 214D > Habaya. The head and body invul on 214D is good to go past it, plus Habaya has a total of 54 recovery frames (her wings go up and she goes back to a neutral position) so you can poke her out with 214D. The downside to this is that with much of Mu's gameplay is that she's supposed to play with stein coverage. She will most likely not use Habaya unless she has a bunch of other things going on about the screen...mostly Totsuka (command laser). BUT the exception to this is that if Tsubaki is at a close enough range, she should 214D through Habaya (it's +1 on block I believe). It should be a given to watch out for lasers CH you out of...anything really. Risk/Reward I'd call it. 214D > Sword of Decimation I'm not sure on that one (granted I only tested it out with my friend who mains Mu, not in actual battle yet). SoD seems more useful in blockstrings and combos rather than being used empty. The only times I've seen empty SoD is used as an air unblockable against aerial opponents, and we all know Tsubaki in the air against Mu is a very bad idea. Plus since SoD can be charged, and be released instantly, it's hard to actually activate 214D upon reaction in a blockstring. You will get FC'd and if you're in the corner, leads to damage. The 236C/D > 214D stuff is awesome, the most Mu can do is...take it really. Even IB > DP leads to her eating 214D CH or clash..but Tsubaki will win and can attack Mu before she can fully recover. And as usual/mentioned before the 236x is a good tool to get in, just be wary of steins. I don't think 214D is great against Mu's tools alone, it's VERY situational and it's all about where the laser is on the screen or what setup of steins the Mu has out at the moment. But 214D is a great tool to use against Mu in pressure, she doesn't have much of an answer to it.
EdWORLD Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 214D > Sword of Decimation I'm not sure on that one (granted I only tested it out with my friend who mains Mu, not in actual battle yet). SoD seems more useful in blockstrings and combos rather than being used empty. The only times I've seen empty SoD is used as an air unblockable against aerial opponents, and we all know Tsubaki in the air against Mu is a very bad idea. Plus since SoD can be charged, and be released instantly, it's hard to actually activate 214D upon reaction in a blockstring. You will get FC'd and if you're in the corner, leads to damage. I mean for Mu's that use SoD during blockstrings and decide to delay it. I've conditioned myself to go right into 214D anytime a Mu tries to delay it even for a second, and it beats it clean, no matter how long they hold it. But honestly, 214D really shines against AoH, if you have stock most Mu's will use AoH to keep anyone from coming in. Even if they opt out for 5C, 214D's inv will beat it out.
LunarSelenia Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Mm I get your point. The 214D vs. Habaya is actually a very useful tool especially if you get that CH in, leads to some nice damage...especially when she has everything else going on about the screen.
Airk Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Technically it's THEORETICALLY possible for Sword of Decimation to beat 214D, but once they notice you starting up 214D it's WAY too late - they have to release D within 2 frames of you STARTING 214D . And most Mu players I play aren't even fast enough to release 214D on reaction to 236C, so... :P Also, why is the Mu community the only one that uses incomprehensible move names instead of notation for their moves? x.x I have NO IDEA what Habaya is, because it's not even called that in the frame data. x.x
Kiba Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Also, why is the Mu community the only one that uses incomprehensible move names instead of notation for their moves? x.x I have NO IDEA what Habaya is, because it's not even called that in the frame data. x.x Lmao. In Japanese it's known as ame no habaya. In the frame data, it's known as arrows of heaven, which is 236A.
Kiba Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 If Mu uses 6C on block, provided that you IB'd it, can you counter with 214D? It SEEMS legit, and should get past her 5D, 236A, and SoD..
BatousaiJ Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 SoD has feet attribute, right? Oh and it's worth noting Mu has one of the few distortions we can't counter on super flash with 236236C/214D. It's invulnerability and hit duration is way too long.
Kiba Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 SoD has feet attribute, right? Actually surprisingly it doesn't. Oh and it's worth noting Mu has one of the few distortions we can't counter on super flash with 236236C/214D. It's invulnerability and hit duration is way too long. Oh fair. Thanks
BatousaiJ Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Actually surprisingly it doesn't. Oh, spiffy. I'll have to test out the 214D after 6C block then. If we're able to make them think twice about using her most basic BnB, it would give them something to think about.
Kiba Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Oh, spiffy. I'll have to test out the 214D after 6C block then. If we're able to make them think twice about using her most basic BnB, it would give them something to think about. I tested it, and it works if Mu uses 236A/5D/2D. If she uses SoD, she'll get a FC.
Airk Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Really, very few special moves have foot attribute, even when it seems like they should (I'm looking at you, Spike Chaser, huge swords that come up out of the ground). Running the numbers on 6C IB: 6C is level 5. 20 frames blockstun. -3 for IB = 17 frames blockstun. 6C has 6 active frames. Assuming it hits on frame 1, 5 frames go by before they can cancel. This leaves you with 12 frames of blockstun. Mu's fastest option after this is SoD, which is 19 frames of startup if they don't hold it. 214D becomes invulnerable on frame 10. So, no, it looks like SoD will hit you on frame 7 of 214D, CH you. OTOH, Arrows of Heaven is 4 frames slower, so would hit on frame 11 and you're invulnerable, so you WILL go through that. Similarly, if for some strange reason they decide to delay 214D, you'll probably hit them. Edit: 22A hits on frame 10, the same frame that 214D goes invulnerable, so it beats/loses to the same stuff.
SolarMisae Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Also, why is the Mu community the only one that uses incomprehensible move names instead of notation for their moves? x.x I have NO IDEA what Habaya is, because it's not even called that in the frame data. x.x Habaya: Arrows of Heaven, electricity ball, 236A Furu No Tsurugi: Sword of Decimation, 63214C Totsuka: Totsuka Blade, Command Laser. 236D Habakiri: Divine Wrath of the Heavens, Explosion, 214D Tsunugui: Origins, diamond, 623C Omohikane: Wisdom of the Divines, shotgun super, 632146C Yata No Kagami: Blessed Mirror, laser super, 632146D For future reference. :3
Airk Posted July 5, 2011 Posted July 5, 2011 Habaya: Arrows of Heaven, electricity ball, 236A Furu No Tsurugi: Sword of Decimation, 63214C Totsuka: Totsuka Blade, Command Laser. 236D Habakiri: Divine Wrath of the Heavens, Explosion, 214D Tsunugui: Origins, diamond, 623C Omohikane: Wisdom of the Divines, shotgun super, 632146C Yata No Kagami: Blessed Mirror, laser super, 632146D For future reference. :3 Thankyou!
pktazn Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 Derp should have realized you guys use the Japanese names for her moves lol. Thanks that helps especially since I want to sub her :D
C0R Posted July 6, 2011 Posted July 6, 2011 Really, very few special moves have foot attribute, even when it seems like they should (I'm looking at you, Spike Chaser, huge swords that come up out of the ground). Running the numbers on 6C IB: 6C is level 5. 20 frames blockstun. -3 for IB = 17 frames blockstun. 6C has 6 active frames. Assuming it hits on frame 1, 5 frames go by before they can cancel. This leaves you with 12 frames of blockstun. Mu's fastest option after this is SoD, which is 19 frames of startup if they don't hold it. 214D becomes invulnerable on frame 10. So, no, it looks like SoD will hit you on frame 7 of 214D, CH you. OTOH, Arrows of Heaven is 4 frames slower, so would hit on frame 11 and you're invulnerable, so you WILL go through that. Similarly, if for some strange reason they decide to delay 214D, you'll probably hit them. Edit: 22A hits on frame 10, the same frame that 214D goes invulnerable, so it beats/loses to the same stuff. You can special cancel on the first active frame. (IB) 6c > Gaps Furu no Tsurugi/SoD - 2 frames 5d Upback - 7 frames Ame no Habayaa/236a - 5 frames Totsuka BLade/236d - Laser guaranteed frame 19 after blockstun ends Ame no Habakiri/214d - 18 frames 632146d - gapless at most ranges Should cover all the relevant options. I use the japanese names because we play with JP voices on, and she declares them quite loudly when she's fighting, so that's how I remember them.
LunarSelenia Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 Mu's got a very interesting/awesome playstyle, I must admit. The only other playstyle I find enjoyable to watch other than Tsubaki. If I didn't suck at this game so much, did not love Tsubaki, and if Solar didn't main her...I'd probably be very interested in her. --- C0R: It was only a matter of time before the Mu God showed up ^^
Airk Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 You can special cancel on the first active frame. Hmmmm. That's interesting. How did you verify this? Do you know if it's also true for gatlings?
C0R Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 If you couldn't cancel on the first active frame certain strings wouldn't be gapless. It's true with all forms of the global cancel mechanic. Ragna's 5b has 8 active frames, meaning its 'effective' blockstun working under what you said earlier would be 9f, meaning there would be a huge hole in 5b 5c, when it's really gapless on IB.
Airk Posted July 7, 2011 Posted July 7, 2011 This is what I get for knowing bupkus about Ragna's blockstrings. Excellent. I am enlightened. Edit: Erm, though I add the clarification that you can only cancel "after" the first active frame (i.e. you cannot cancel the first active frame) and only if it hits on that frame.
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