SolarMisae Posted July 19, 2011 Posted July 19, 2011 Abuuuse your mobility, fast characters can give Mu a really hard time. Don't let her get away with setting up more than one stein at a time unless you're knocked down, you're FAST and can get on on her in a split second. I find allowing Mu to come to you can sometimes work as well, but mostly you wanna stay on dat ass and stop her from getting out steins as frequently as possible. A Mu without steins is a scared Mu. Oh, I also don't suggest the 236x series except for maybe the D version if you condition it. It's easy for Mu to poke her out of that. I've even managed to explode a stein on reaction to the dashes if see it coming. 214x series is better when grounded. Don't approach from the air, Mu's anti-air options are good. Don't even think about using any of Tsubaki's air specials to approach. I can't count the amount of times I 2C'd those on reaction, particularly her j.214x series. Also don't charge in the air except after an air combo into knockdown. Mu will jump and try to throw you out of it. Or if she's not close enough for a throw she might j.C CH you. You can run right past her explosions if you're within a decent range. If you see any hint of a Mu going for a blank explosion and you're about half screen you can run up and pressure her for free, or a CH if you're close enough to get there before the CH state ends. Don't let her get away with blank explosions, cause If I ever try to do that Lunar runs in and punches me in the face for it lol. Also, bait her DP all day. I find even If you clash with her DP you will win and free CH for you. Don't get greedy trying to build up stock either. If you're not a decent distance away from her or Mu isn't knocked down it's asking for 6C/Dash 6C FC to the face, dat shit hurts. I feel this matchup is pretty even honestly. Only depends on who catches who first. If you can stop Mu from getting those Steins out she'll have a much harder time keeping you away. Once you knock her down she'll have a hard time regaining momentum. /wall of text. Long writeup, I've played this matchup countless times now. xD
Kiba Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 I did 623D on my wakeup. Mu did 2B. Guess who got hit?! Me! Here I am just gathering up more salt and sliding towards just using CAs with Tsubaki...
BatousaiJ Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 I did 623D on my wakeup. Mu did 2B. Guess who got hit?! Me! Here I am just gathering up more salt and sliding towards just using CAs with Tsubaki... I how no idea how 623D would get beaten by 2B. Is her hitbox really that low while using 2B?
C0R Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) Mu's 2b is designed to beat dp's, with good spacing it will... ID - Clash Makoto DP - Whiff Ashura - Clash Tsubaki DP - Clash/Whiff Ashura - Clash Plat Bat - Whiff Tsubame - Recover and Block Most reversal supers - Recover and Block It does lose to Jin's ex dp and some other few things though. It doesn't really extend her hitbox, and her foot is barely there. Edited September 14, 2011 by C0R
pktazn Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 http://www.dustloop.com/guides/bbcs2/frameData/mu/2B.html EDIT: Whoops copied the image url not the actual URL the first time
C0R Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 C0R in the Matchup thread with the ninja post edit.
pktazn Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Lol I used the image you had first then switched it to the whole move since the first one shows that her hitbox when it first starts up (I'm guessing) is smaller and further away when spaced well more than you would think.
Airk Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Tsubaki's DP hits at ground level, so it's not that the hitbox is too low. Not being able to see what actually happened makes speculation difficult - but if it didn't clash, and instead hit you, then she must've thrown it out late enough to hit you AFTER the invulnerability frames on the DP wore off, and after the hitbox of the DP had risen enough not to hit her. If this is the case, then the different invulnerability frames on the B-DP would probably transform the whole thing into a big whifffest, but you'd still need to D-cancel or rapid cancel to not get punished on landing. Still, this is just another reason to NOT wake up with the D DP. This move is basically a waste of a charge IMHO.
Kiba Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Most likely I think that was the case Airk, if I can recall correctly. I also agree with you in that her DP shouldn't be used, definately including 623A. I had no idea Mu's 2B was designed to beat DPs however. This just makes the corner even more of a nightmare for Tsubaki.
C0R Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Most likely I think that was the case Airk, if I can recall correctly. I also agree with you in that her DP shouldn't be used, definately including 623A. I had no idea Mu's 2B was designed to beat DPs however. This just makes the corner even more of a nightmare for Tsubaki. It has less recovery frames than most invincible moves have startup, in addition there's that nice chunk of buffer between her hitting and hittable boxes, which causes it to clash with everything, similar to Hakumen's 5b.
BatousaiJ Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Her DP might suck but you have to throw it out from time to time to make them try to bait it so they get off your ass. I'm more hesistent to throw out the D variation since in most match ups the charges are better used elsewhere but if I have charges to burn and I've got time to accumulate more, I'll burn 3 charges for the full 623D > j.236D > j.214D course. If it hits, great, you get a nice IAD combo if it doesn't they're in stun quite a while and it's safe in most cases and you can start a pressure string of your own. All very subjective though. It all depends on how much health me and my opponent has, how many charges I have, whether I have meter or not, how easy I'm able to get the charges in this match up, etc , etc. I'm in the camp of never saying never and always keep my options open, no matter how silly it may seem on the surface.
Airk Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 (edited) The hitbox is excellent, yes, but I'm not really sure what the relevance is of "less recovery frames than most invincible moves have startup" unless you're talking about using it as a bait? Edit: Also, I said "never wake up with" not "never use". For punishing holes in pressure, Tsubaki's DP does fine, though I still generally advocate not spending the charge for the D version, simply because I don't think the modest amount of additional damage gained from a 623D > j.236D > j.214D stuff is worth another charge on top of doing the same thing with 623A. Edited September 14, 2011 by Airk
C0R Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 The hitbox is excellent, yes, but I'm not really sure what the relevance is of "less recovery frames than most invincible moves have startup" unless you're talking about using it as a bait? If I do a meaty 2b on Litchi's wakeup, and litchi does Tsubame Geishi, 2b will recover in time for Mu to block the dp.
Airk Posted September 14, 2011 Posted September 14, 2011 Thanks, that makes sense. I think I was just failing to grasp the phrasing for some reason. @_@
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