[CS2] Rachel vs. Tager

[Kuuhaku]

Overview

Tager hasn't changed much, while Rachel has a bunch of new toys.

Tips/Misc

• Be careful of using 5B/2B since he can sledge through it.
  
• 6A's super armor is projectile invulnerable, but vulnerable to lows. Meaning 3C, not 2B.
  
• j.A is really handy.
  
• 6B is also really handy.
  
• Pumpkin is also great.
  
• Watch out for Tager's throw setups off of charged 6A.
  
• Make sure you keep in mind IB nerf and that Rachel's 5A is now 6 frames.
  
• Sledge follow up is now projectile invulnerable. Be careful of approaching with 5B/pumpkin. If you block it though, it's super easy to punish.
  

Character Specific Combos

JPN Match Up Videos

Here

Edited May 19, 2011 by Bohemian Polka

[Jason D.]

Tager's Sledge follow-up now has projectile invincibility also. So be careful trying to punish him after a full-screen Sledge, as there might be a fist coming down, which will easily beat out a pumpkin, 5B, or so on. However, the Hammer part is still extremely punishable if you block it.

Also, against a standing Tager, a wind-less 5CC can no longer be followed up with 236C. (I'm sad). But it will still combo into 236B if you're close enough to the corner.

[gli]

This match-up feels difficult for now. Mainly I haven't found an answer to his 6A yet.

[tofurr]

NorCal, home of the Tager mains.

I usually keep my distance and see what the Tager is going to do. If he tries to approach with sledge, 6CD wins and you can carry to the corner or 6B to gain some composure. Jump-ins can be stuffed with 6A, though I haven't tested all the moves it will beat, I know it'll work on elbow drops and his headbutt one.

When some of the Tagers I played tried pulling me in with 6A, a throw surprised them every now and then and I 2A'd them out of it a couple times, somehow. I guess fast, low attacks are effective against it.

Our pressure and blockstrings do a number on him now thanks to our new gatlings, j.a overhead, and IB nerf. If I run out of wind while not in the corner I usually end blockstrings on a 6B, 236A and jump/dash back. Tempest Dahlia is a good stall and helps to regain wind to put pressure back on him.

Edited May 17, 2011 by tofurr

[[SpA]Relentless]

This match-up feels difficult for now. Mainly I haven't found an answer to his 6A yet.

Afaik his 6A has an upper body guardpoint, but is vulnerable to lows. I'm not sure if 2B would beat it because it's also an projectile (and 6A also guards projectiles now iirc), but 3C should definitely work (and it's also a fairly good combo starter now because of its buffed p1).

[kotokot]

You can jump over 6A and punish it, i think you can land j.2c lv3 sometimes, haven't tested. Or just throw or 3C.

Our pressure and blockstrings do a number on him now thanks to our new gatlings, j.a overhead, and IB nerf. If I run out of wind while not in the corner I usually end blockstrings on a 6B, 236A and jump/dash back. Tempest Dahlia is a good stall and helps to regain wind to put pressure back on him.

i don't think it's good idea to end with 236a, they can ib 6B and do throw or sledge. In addition, don't use 5cc on blocking tager, you will eat throw.

some techtraps can be avoided with wind.

Edited May 17, 2011 by kotokot

[tofurr]

Usually they were barrier blocking, and the fork pushed me back far enough to where they couldn't punish the 236A. And I usually avoid ending blockstrings with a 5CC and 3C because of that. D:

[Jason D.]

Just a reminder, Rachel's 2A is mid, not low, so it won't stop Tager's 6A. 2B and 3C are the ways to go if you find yourself punching into his super armor. I've also been dying to counter it with a 2C, but the opportunity has yet to present itself. Also, his 6A can only take so much damage before the armor breaks. I know for a fact that it can't survive a 6CD.

[lolokoa]

Rachel 2B does not win against Tager Super Armor 6A

It's either you Airdash through it /3C /late Cat Chair

or in theory you could wind up J2C for a Fatal let the Magnet momentum get you to Tager

Edited May 19, 2011 by lolokoa

[Starlight777]

I pretty much just take advantage of his still piss poor mobility and zone him till the end. Also I love how 6B sends him all the way back to start on counterhit. Also try to abuse your now fully functional Tempest Dalia. At lvl3 or lvl 4 it pretty much just locks him down from fullscreen especially if George is out.

[C0R]

Tager's 6a will beat all projectile normals, even if they're lows. It beats Noel's 3c.

[gli]

Should we just use 2A in this match? 5B and 2B are too risky -_-

[gli]

After some more trials...

Throwing out 6CD can beat out sledges and 6A guard point. 6CD is not immediately airborne so keep that in mind when you attempt this. You have to transition between getting those hits in and staying out of sledge range I find to be successful in the match-up.

[Alex073088]

gil we all have known bout this, jason was doing it in tournament. Btw wat tager players have been giving u trouble? I have been raping tagers who gave me so much trouble before hand. Lol I have been astralling tagers more then any character with ease?

[gli]

Nah I don't have trouble with this match-up as before now that I figured out what I should be doing. A few matches against tofurr and I got the idea.

I think one issue that should be discussed is how to play Rachel when you are magnetized. How to optimally play in this situation I think is key to consistently winning. You won't always get those rounds where you get momentum and corner carry to victory.

Some points to discuss to expand this thread:

- What to do when you are magnetized?

- Gadget Finger Decision Making

- Zoning while respecting sledge

[Pyro_The_Kidd]

as a friendly reminder Tempest Dahlia (any level) STILL beats out tager's spark bolt in CS2

[gli]

Some rough testing gave me this:

Oops. I lied. Not all normals cancelled into projectiles (preferrably 236A Lobelia) can be IB Sledged (236B and 236C are way too unsafe to do upclose of course). Some normals into projectiles can be IB > Sledge punished if IB'd far away enough.

Sledge Safe normals to cancel into 236A: 6A, 3C, 5C

Sledge Unsafe normals cancelled into 236A (all of these can be sledged if IB'd): 5A, 2A, 5B, 2B, 6B

These are only unsafe when IB'd from a far away distance. The 236A Lobelia has to be far away enough to where Tager isn't in blockstun immediately following the normal and so he can fit a sledge in-between the cancel.

Of course, Rachel should not try to throw-out Lobelia's within that range to begin with. It would be much safer to throw out a jump-cancellable normal and retreat to safety.

Edited May 29, 2011 by glirandly

[Kuuhaku]

Always end corner combos with 5CC oki. There's literally nothing Tager can do in this situation but block or block pumpkin/frog and dead angle. You're out of MTW and buster range (unless you're magnetized). If he sledges, he loses to 6B (5CC oki puts you at max 6B range). If he hits anything, he's also out of range (his only normals that will hit far enough have really slow start up, plus pumpkin and/or frog is right on his ass so this is a bad idea anyway) and will die to 6B.

If he does anything but block, you can combo him and put him back in the same situation.

As for what to do when Gadget Fingered- back dash + wind beats all of Tager's options except for Spark Bolt... which is risky for him to do because that'll lose if he guesses wrong and you decide to hit a button instead.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Bohemian Polka

[Alex073088]

Tagers 6a and 5a can beat backdash with wind and in the corner when gadget fingered u have to guess without being able to backdash. Axis tech roll 5cc corner frog then lobelia a set up and 720 ed frostbite once

[gli]

He can also just do 5C to punish your backdash attempt.

[Kuuhaku]

Tagers 6a and 5a can beat backdash with wind and in the corner when gadget fingered u have to guess without being able to backdash. Axis tech roll 5cc corner frog then lobelia a set up and 720 ed frostbite once

You should only A cannon if they neutral tech. If you see them roll, that's a free chance to put them back in the corner. If you want to, you can even 5CC again since that will catch the roll and punt them back in. Otherwise you can use 5B.

I'll check out the other stuff. But I think in those cases you guys might be doing backdash late. I'll let you know.

Edited June 8, 2011 by Bohemian Polka

[Jason D.]

As much as I love the winded backdash, it does indeed lose to a 5C. Or a Spark Bolt too, but that's kind of wasteful. However, it is perfectly safe against 5A and 6A (even one held down). It's a great option because it pretty much changes Tager's mixup to "5C" or "anything else". And personally, I get away with winded backdash near 100% of the time, since no Tager who knows the match-up would ever be using Gadget Finger on Rachel anyway.

Incidentally, I was testing this out earlier, and you should never 2C against his 6A. Despite how hilarious it is in theory. Tager has a LOT of invincibility. Here is how it goes: Tager lets go of 6A, Rachel starts 2C, Tager hits Rachel's guard point, Rachel hits Tager's guard point, and then Tager recovers first. Free throw. Not so hilarious. Tager's guard point doesn't last that long on paper, but I believe getting stuck in hitstop from Rachel's guard point actually extends his invincibility time. So just a reminder, if you want to beat out his 6A, your only option is 3C.

[Manta]

Better yet Jason, 6A can be cancelled into his command throws on hit or block. So if I see it impact onto cat chair I can make you eat a B buster as a throwcounter. And since you're Rachel. That's 4,500 Damage.

[kotokot]

And personally, I get away with winded backdash near 100% of the time, since no Tager who knows the match-up would ever be using Gadget Finger on Rachel anyway.

why? i fucking hate gadget finger. He can do spark bolt, 5D, 6A, agian gadget finger if you like backdash.

[Manta]

Gadget finger against backdashing only works once however. Due to the way the game calculates if you're in a downed state or not. However, rachel can really do without another 6 seconds of mag.