Spark Posted May 17, 2011 Posted May 17, 2011 Place holder Punishes: Anti-airing: Zoning: Their game plan: Strategy: Char specific details:
BladeOfJustice7 Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 My main problem with this matchup is getting out of the corner once I'm in there. Advice?
MAdBater Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 (edited) If you could predict the corner mix up and pressure you might be able to do a D move. Depending on how she is keeping corner pressure on you can go for a hop/tk 214b. If she has you on lock down with a special or some other attack they always go for mix up just do your best to block it. If she jumps you might be able to 623a kishuu under. kishuu has upper body invincibility. I have not played against a litchi player for about a week or so. I been using kishuu just for movement a lot more now so i going to give that a try my self to get out of the corner. Edit Also i forgot about counter assault you probably will want to spend the meter to get out of the corner against litchi. Edited June 25, 2011 by MAdBater
zreb Posted June 25, 2011 Posted June 25, 2011 Our local Litchi also gives me a plethora of problems. Would like to see this matchup thread filled out sometime. :s I have a basic grasp of how this matchup is supposed to work, but I think I handle it poorly. I think a lot of it is spacing games. I don't have too many problems with pressure/mixup..
SansProtocol Posted June 26, 2011 Posted June 26, 2011 I'll be getting on this sometime today. Have a bit of a write-up for it but need to type it up.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted June 26, 2011 Posted June 26, 2011 I don't have too much of a problem with the match up outside of getting out of the corner and knowing what moves to punish. I was able to dominate a litchi player from another city not too long ago, but my city's local litchi gives me huge problems once I'm in the corner. The kishuu movement is a good idea, I'll check the frame data to see when upper body invincibility starts in the move.
SansProtocol Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 I've (and hundreds/thousands of others) have been having issues with Verizon and latency issues preventing me from accessing a few sites (this one in general) without a proxy. I will be updating this and a few others with some info for discussion tonight but I'll write it down offline and post it in one big go. Sorry for the delay.
SansProtocol Posted July 18, 2011 Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) NOTE: “[m]” means with mantenbou and “[e]” means empty-handed (staff planted). Moves to Use: 3C: Use for a CH on moves that are unsafe on block like 2C[m] or whiffed moves.5D/6D/2D: Your best tools to use to get out of corner pressure and in reaction to 6A and the mix-up OS from 5C[m] (4D[m] or 3C[m]). Also, great to use against mantenbou shenanigans.2C: To discourage jump-ins.Hotaru: Use this against her IAD approaches, crossups with j.B[m], and to get out of corner pressure.Kishuu/Enma: To go under Straight-Through B, 6B, 4D[m].6B: Use its' low invulnerability to beat out 3C and Itsuu A (236A[e]). Use Litchi's extended hurtbox during these to stomp on her from afar.Anti-airing: Hotaru, 2C, 5A/B/C.Zoning: 3C, j.C, 4C.Their game plan: The Litchi player's overall game plan is to get you into the corner, keep you there, and force you to neutral tech to keep the advantage up. They will be looking to punish overzealous and predictable opponents by 2C[m], 3C[m], 6A, j.C[m], j.2D[m] and Straight-Through. A counter-hit with any of these will lead to a combo with a lot of corner carry and leaves you at a great disadvantage. Once they have you in the corner, they will use mantenbou pressure along with their own attacks to cut off your escape routes.Strategy:Both of your gameplans are basically the same: Take advantage of a mistake, put your opponent in the corner because of it, keep them there. Use this to your advantage when trapped in the corner. A simple Back Throw or 5D/2D is all it takes to switch the momentum in this match-up.As with CS1, you will still win out in the A/B attack range. Use your new ground gatlings (delayed cancels) to lock Litchi down while you gain meter. A simple 2B → 2A → 5A → 5B is safe on block and nets you about ¾ of a star. However, she wins at longer range. Don't mash 4C as a good Litchi player can easily deal with that.Play it safe in this matchup, even with meter. Both you and the Litchi player will be looking to punish unsafe moves.If you are put into the corner, don't attempt to roll out and just neutral tech. However, you have an advantage over most characters as you can escape and/or put Litchi in the corner with your Drive. Use the predictability of a launched stick's route to use 5D/6D. Also, do not panic. It may seem like overwhelming but you must pay attention to Litchi in order to block her mix-up. Char specific details: [*]You can buffer 6D during the superflash of All Green to counter the DD. Because of the fact that Litchi lunges forward a good bit, you can connect with the 6D push from much farther than expected. Also, you can buffer Shippu as Yukikaze will not cause hitstop on projectiles. If you do, Shippu's invul frames protect you from All Green and you can cancel into Gurren to combo them into the corner. [*]2D completely neutralizes Litchi's Thirteen Orphans Distortion Drive (Stick Man). If you buffer 2D during the superflash and 2D again after the first, you will toss Litchi into the air and then catch her with the second 2D for 2200 damage and the ability to follow up with the 2D combo of your choice. Edited August 12, 2011 by SansProtocol
Moblin Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 What's the best way to deal with her DP? I have a litchi friend that I play a lot, and whenever I know he's gonna DP, I just 6d on HIS wakeup, and most of the time I'm right. This sucks when I'm wrong though. There must be a better way to punish the DP, but I don't know what it is. Is it punishable on block?
SansProtocol Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 What's the best way to deal with her DP? I have a litchi friend that I play a lot, and whenever I know he's gonna DP, I just 6d on HIS wakeup, and most of the time I'm right. This sucks when I'm wrong though. There must be a better way to punish the DP, but I don't know what it is. Is it punishable on block? Just block the first three hits and throw her after. The throw animation will make you invulnerable for the stick's last hit. Time it a bit later if the throw ends before the fourth attack. Also, watch for times when she doesn't have her staff as you don't need to worry about DP (I know this seems obvious but just making a note about it).
mAc Chaos Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I think that just doing a meaty j.2C is better, or just jumping in on them with it if you think they're gonna DP. It'll cut through the DP and make a void, and cancel out the followup. This will let you do a CH combo of your choice. Just make sure to get the timing right.
SansProtocol Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I think that just doing a meaty j.2C is better, or just jumping in on them with it if you think they're gonna DP. It'll cut through the DP and make a void, and cancel out the followup. This will let you do a CH combo of your choice. Just make sure to get the timing right. I'm on a bus so I can't try it out but would the void hit them before the j.2C or after it, not protecting you from the second hit or allowing them to tech if you delay your combo? Just visualizing it in my head.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 From what I remember a meaty j2c beats litchi's dp AND hurts her. But I only remember that as of cs1.
mAc Chaos Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Yeah I don't remember the order of the bubble but either way it beats it out and lets you combo after it off 5C and such.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 From what I understand, if litchi is hit the hitbox of her dp goes away, so. Initially, the void would protect you from being hit and will remain there until her dp invincibility is gone, following that she'll get hit by the void. Causing the staff to lose it's hitbox, correct me if I'm wrong.
SansProtocol Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Just tested stuff. My advice for the DP: Just 3C after the first three attacks (when she throws her stick up) if you're close like you should be. You'll score a CH and the stick will harmlessly land during CH hitstop.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I think Spark did that at one point no?
SansProtocol Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I think Spark did that at one point no? He probably did, seeing as he plays one of the best Litchis in America on a more regular-than-not basis. My local Litchi isn't shabby at all, but his experience is far greater. XD Need to watch even more vids, I guess.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Depending on the range probably not.
mAc Chaos Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 I think you can hop forward 5C. But it's been a long time since I tested it. Might need IBing.
SansProtocol Posted September 7, 2011 Posted September 7, 2011 Can't you block and 5C? You can counter-hit her with 5C only if you're the closest you can be. However, 3C is a bit more forgiving as it comes out quicker (and has a bit more range) to hit her when her hitbox is more horizontal.
Moblin Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 Thanks for the advice. We are talking about her non-distortion dragon punch right? Are the 3 hits you're referring to the uppercut part of the move, and the 4th is when the stick comes back down? Can I block the uppercut and throw her without having to hop forward if I block it close enough?
SansProtocol Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 Thanks for the advice. We are talking about her non-distortion dragon punch right? Are the 3 hits you're referring to the uppercut part of the move, and the 4th is when the stick comes back down? Can I block the uppercut and throw her without having to hop forward if I block it close enough? Yeah, I was talking about Tsubame Gaeshi (623D[m]). The attack has 4 hits: three are with the uppercut, the last is when the stick drops back down and plants itself. You can just block the uppercut and CH 3C if you're close enough. Hop 5C/Throw takes too long to do before she recovers (don't know why I said you can just throw ). Sorry for the confusion.
Sophisticat Posted September 8, 2011 Posted September 8, 2011 J.2c will beat DP, but the timing is strict and specific, so I wouldn't recommend it at all. The active hitbox has to hit the staff as it becomes a projectile without it hitting Haku's active box. In other words, late j.2c on late DP. I wouldn't bet on getting that consistent. How you deal with blocking DP comes in two forms, I think, though IB isn't necessary but it helps. First is min range block and second is max range block. Ok, so first blocking case, I don't remember if you should IB if you want to do 5c -> combo (not because of blockstun, but pushback), but I think you should be able to regardless (Litchi is at -23 anyway so it doesn't matter, lol. Just use something else). This range should be where the staff won't hit you at all on the way down. Second case is for max range block, and 3c should work. I usually just block instead since I always seem to get hit by the falling staff. But if you guys say 3c works, then go for it. If DP whiffs, punish will depend on range. You can do 5c/3c/Gurren, Enma, or 4c depending on range. Jumping in/out or plain blocking also work.
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