LunaKage Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Both of those make me facepalm a little bit to be completely honest.
Runis Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 not so much a reset as a dodgy trick. 5AxN 5B 29.sjc ~delay until you cross over and then j.4D will cross over normally. j.96D will cross over BACKWARDS. I've shown luna what it looks like but the vid is shit quality so unless its 100% necessary I'd rather let it rot in obscurity.
eLPointe Posted May 31, 2011 Author Posted May 31, 2011 You should post the video anyways, it doesn't hurt to show video footage so people can see a little better what it is you are talking about. I think I know what you mean though.
Runis Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 turn off sound. or you WILL go deaf http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXNH3mqKhDY
Mizzet Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 I've had a reasonable amount of success with the j.D d.6D d.6B d.5C 214D(whiff) ender to force an emergency tech and gain frame advanatge, at which point I usually proceed to 5a > pressure, 2b > combo, go for a throw, or jump and attempt j.4d (risky against good players). It's been working enough that people I play are starting to just not tech and eat the 214d, which is useful if I'm fighting out of a corner since now I get my ender and put them in the corner in one go. If they choose to not tech and eat the 214d, but I want to setup that situation, I'll do 236b(whiff) instead of 214d.
LunaKage Posted June 2, 2011 Posted June 2, 2011 I've had a reasonable amount of success with the j.D d.6D d.6B d.5C 214D(whiff) ender to force an emergency tech and gain frame advanatge, at which point I usually proceed to 5a > pressure, 2b > combo, go for a throw, or jump and attempt j.4d (risky against good players). It's been working enough that people I play are starting to just not tech and eat the 214d, which is useful if I'm fighting out of a corner since now I get my ender and put them in the corner in one go. If they choose to not tech and eat the 214d, but I want to setup that situation, I'll do 236b(whiff) instead of 214d. I'm glad someone else has been having success with it, also, the higher your opponent is before the wiff the more frame advantage you'll have, for example, if you use the ender j.D > d.6D > d.5D > d.5C > 214D, your opponent will be much higher than if you threw in the d.6B, I found this out while doing combos after a d.6B starter.
Mizzet Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Has anyone considered the possibility of j.4d hop over during the opponent's recovery after corner Fenrir? Pretty common combo ender in the corner so it's a situation that crops up often. Iirc it's another situation where your opponent can only emergency tech, and this time you have all the frame advantage in the world. Direction change should stuff wakeup reversals from an opponent that doesn't expect it too, and if you do tag the guy with j.4d, drive combo into 214a + ender puts him right back in the corner again.
LunaKage Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Has anyone considered the possibility of j.4d hop over during the opponent's recovery after corner Fenrir? Pretty common combo ender in the corner so it's a situation that crops up often. Iirc it's another situation where your opponent can only emergency tech, and this time you have all the frame advantage in the world. Direction change should stuff wakeup reversals from an opponent that doesn't expect it too, and if you do tag the guy with j.4d, drive combo into 214a + ender puts him right back in the corner again. I would normally only recommend using Fenrir as a corner ender if you are sure it will kill your opponent or bring him close enough to death that one or two pokes would kill him, because due to the drive nerf and everyone's level buff a counter assault is an absolute must, but this is still an option, I think the same thing would work after just a BT ender honestly. May have to do some testing in DA LAB!
Runis Posted June 9, 2011 Posted June 9, 2011 Has anyone considered the possibility of j.4d hop over during the opponent's recovery after corner Fenrir? Pretty common combo ender in the corner so it's a situation that crops up often. Iirc it's another situation where your opponent can only emergency tech, and this time you have all the frame advantage in the world. Direction change should stuff wakeup reversals from an opponent that doesn't expect it too, and if you do tag the guy with j.4d, drive combo into 214a + ender puts him right back in the corner again. This shit does NOT work. Everybody I play who is in a corner, the moment I tag em with fenrir is expecting a reset of some kind. If you don't tech and let Noel try to reset, when she screws up she gets punished.
Mizzet Posted June 10, 2011 Posted June 10, 2011 That's a fair point, I'm personally rather super-happy and I don't use CA as much as I should. It's saved my ass every time I've bothered to.
Runis Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 The only time j.4D is usable is in situations where your opponent is conditioned against pressing buttons, like if they're teching. I saw Tokido kept using the j.A j.4D setup, but that doesn't work since Noel's Air to Ground is just not scary enough to stop mashing. Personally I find the best time to use j.4D is to drop a combo early and TK j.4D them as they neutral tech out. This is a brutal reset since the TK j.4D is harder to see due to their neutral tech flash obscuring her as she crosses up. Only time this hasn't worked is against people who have seen/know about the reset and/or don't try to tech out. At Shadowloo it worked against every single player I was up against, even in casuals against the top 3 (Except Tokido - I explained it to him before the finals along with the Fenrir RC combo). The other thing about this reset is that its a meaty setup so if they're mashing out, they get fataled, if they block it correctly, you can cancel straight into d.2D which is another crossup.
LunaKage Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 The only time j.4D is usable is in situations where your opponent is conditioned against pressing buttons, like if they're teching. I saw Tokido kept using the j.A j.4D setup, but that doesn't work since Noel's Air to Ground is just not scary enough to stop mashing. Personally I find the best time to use j.4D is to drop a combo early and TK j.4D them as they neutral tech out. This is a brutal reset since the TK j.4D is harder to see due to their neutral tech flash obscuring her as she crosses up. Only time this hasn't worked is against people who have seen/know about the reset and/or don't try to tech out. At Shadowloo it worked against every single player I was up against, even in casuals against the top 3 (Except Tokido - I explained it to him before the finals along with the Fenrir RC combo). The other thing about this reset is that its a meaty setup so if they're mashing out, they get fataled, if they block it correctly, you can cancel straight into d.2D which is another crossup. I can't imagine how it could possibly be set up to be a meaty, but if you could explain one of your setups more it would be much appreciated. If what you say is really solid, then this would be a great way to at least take a primer off(two primers off of characters with no DP with d.6C), but I just don't know what move we have that forces emergency tech other than d.5C, which is no longer jump cancelable.
Halcyone3 Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 I can't imagine how it could possibly be set up to be a meaty, but if you could explain one of your setups more it would be much appreciated. If what you say is really solid, then this would be a great way to at least take a primer off(two primers off of characters with no DP with d.6C), but I just don't know what move we have that forces emergency tech other than d.5C, which is no longer jump cancelable. its not really set up as a meaty, the opponent just wakes up a couple frames before it hits, short of a reversal, not much they can do except block, considering they teched in a specific timing and fashion.
HexaNoid Posted August 5, 2011 Posted August 5, 2011 its not really set up as a meaty, the opponent just wakes up a couple frames before it hits, short of a reversal, not much they can do except block, considering they teched in a specific timing and fashion. Yeah, pretty much this. You more or less have to react to their tech to get that trick to work. For example, sometimes when I get a 6C > B+C > 66C juggle, I jump cancel it when they're low to the ground (like after the 3rd 6C if you started off with 6A) and wait to see if they tech. If they do, I j.4D them for the cross-up "meaty" since people normally block after they tech when you're still close enough to pressure them (assuming they don't have a DP). And of course if they don't tech it doesn't matter since I haven't commited to anything and can just adapt to the situation. This might not be the best way to use it, but I've found it's worked on the few occasions I've tried it.
jailhousefrog89 Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 so youre claiming you taught tokido the wakeup fenrir rc into combo that he was doing a bunch at evo? thats cool dude so at what point would yous et this reset up? i guess after normal combo as youre doing your final 6c into jump d you just do 6c, jump cancel, wait for tech, 4d? that sounds pretty brutal if it hits
HexaNoid Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 Yeah, it can be pretty nasty when it works; if you've moved your opponent close to corner when you do it, you can potentially do 7.2k with 100 heat doing a combo that builds roughly 50. To set it up, just make sure the combo you've done before the 6C > jump cancel isn't one with a lot of proration on it, since you don't want your opponent to be able to tech in the air. Long drive combos into 22B mash > dash cancel > 6C would probably be an example of this, but I'd have to check to make sure. I'll post more extensive findings in the reset thread once I have a chance.
jailhousefrog89 Posted August 6, 2011 Posted August 6, 2011 back to that reset, why would they not just roll out of it? i feel like i would definitely not neutral tech that if i was getting hit by it.
HexaNoid Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 back to that reset, why would they not just roll out of it? i feel like i would definitely not neutral tech that if i was getting hit by it. The trap really relies on your opponent mashing tech while they're in the middle of your combo hoping you drop it. If they know that's what you're going for, there is nothing stopping your opponent from just waiting a while and rolling away to safety. However, because you react to the tech, if you notice them lying on the floor just don't press j.4D and you complete and empty jump. The only downside to this is that you lose any potential damage you would've gotten from the finished combo, but the reward (4k midscreen, more in the corner) is pretty great so it's often worth it to try. And don't forget that any trick you use multiple times will always become ineffective on opponents who are analysing your play. Remember to mix up the set-ups you use for the reset and never use it too often and you should be able to catch people out with it quite a lot. P.S. Could you move all this discussion about this reset into the 'Reset Thread' please, Luna? I feel like it'd be a lot more useful there than in a section for beginners questions lol.
jailhousefrog89 Posted August 7, 2011 Posted August 7, 2011 how about doing the same reset but instead of jump cancelling superjump cancel upforward and do 4d in the opposite direction :psyduck::psyduck:
jailhousefrog89 Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 on training moding it this seems to work best after a j.d reload, because C lets them airtech
Runis Posted August 9, 2011 Posted August 9, 2011 I don't like posting my reset points publically but if you're going to drop a combo into reset, make sure its off something that forces emergency tech, its the only thing where tech timing is consistant. Noel has so much stuff she can ghetto you if they mash tech not hard to find, most people are just too lazy to grind training mode. If they don't mash tech, extend your combos to blue beats every now and then.
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