[CS2] Noel vs. Noel

[LunaKage]

Matchup Ranking: 5/5

Obviously the mirror match is going to be even, but it IS dumb.

Recommended Playstyle: Patient

Noel can screw herself over if she plays risky and overly aggressive, drive is a constant threat.

General Strategy:

Stay calm, getting punished with drive hurts big time, and even though Noel has pressure now, she still runs a heavy risk of getting D'd to death.

Your Best Tools(For This Matchup):

6A - Beats 2D clean now, and is safe to use now and then during pressure strings, throwing in a 6A > 2B during stagger strings is a great way to fish for 2D counter hits.

6C - Is really good at catching 2D, and due to 100 p1 it makes your opponent think twice about reversal drive attempts. Riskier than 6A in staggers, but can be worth it in the long run.

2D - 2D is still a menace in this matchup, because it makes any low attempt extremely unsafe, use it sparingly however, now that Noel has solid tools to counter it.

4D - If you're a fan of 5A pressure, 4D will eat your family while it forces you to watch, but it's beaten by any and all lows, so you run the risk of getting 3C'd, or more commonly 2B'd.

Has A DP?: No, but Drives sure as hell feel like one.

Has A DP With Heat?: Fenrir kind of counts, but is dealt with much easier than a standard DP.

Things To Look Out For:

Due to this being a mirror match, just refer to the "Your best tools" section, and think of being on the receiving end instead of the aggressive end.

[Arcknight]

Well after experimenting with a random player last night in player matches, I found that Noel's corner pressure against another Noel is pretty solid. Like what is written above, her normals are very hard to mash out of unlike CS1. Even with drive. It is a lot safer to wait it out and block properly than it is to try and gamble on anything. Being counter-hit, in the corner, by Noel, is akin to giving the round away. Outside of a Counter Assault I think patience -is- the best tool for being corner pressured. Wait for an opening. Do not try and make one.

Mid-screen there is a lot more room to move around and she is a lot less intimidating.

Something interesting to note: 4D beats Assault Through. 4D has upper body invincibility and not head right? 6A probably would not work the same(head invulnerable?).

I thought I would add my experiences here since there has not been much traffic in match-ups lately. I also do not mind being a guinea pig for anything in the future either.

I should also add that lol5D is not exactly a free punish any more. Not like that needs to be said.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Arcknight

[HexaNoid]

Wait for an opening. Do not try and make one.

This is definitely something that should be kept in mind when fighting Noel as well as the whole 'staying calm' thing. As far as getting out of Noel pressure goes, it's a lot to do with the players habits; 2D beating 2A but losing to 6A means you have to adapt to your opponents strings and maybe switch to using 5C instead, for instance. Noel can get hella random though so patience is a big factor in this too.

A couple things I've noticed is that j.C > mix-up is a TERRIBLE idea against Noel as all her high-low options lose to 2D - 6B, d.6B and 6D are all beaten by it. Jumping in on Noel in general isn't really the best idea anyway since her 6A is a decent AA and Noel's air-to-ground normals are pretty weak, but if you do ever land a j.C just get in and use the opportunity to extend pressure instead of trying to be tricky (or use 6A if you know your opponent is mashing 2D).

Another thing I've picked up is OpticA x2 in the corner after a pressure string against drive happy Noels. 5C > OpticA > OpticA leaves enough gap for your opponent to mash out a drive, but not enough for them to actually hit you and thus lands you a CH. In the corner this can lead into roughly 4.8k meterless, but remember that OpticA is -3 on block so if they decide to use something other than a drive move it's more than possible that you can get hit out it.

[LunaKage]

5D can beat Optic Barrel.

[HexaNoid]

Noted. It works against the other drives though (apart from maybe 6D which never gets used) and not many Noel's use 5D as much after the nerf to it.

Oh, and I also forgot to mention that j.4D loses to 2D as well.

[TransientFaith]

Might as well drop this here. Muzzle filter beats CA clean. CA has 22 invul frames, 30 frame total, Muzzle comes out in 26

Prolly not the best idea to CA after 6A/6C if you think your opponent is autopiloting combos

[LunaKage]

Might as well drop this here. Muzzle filter beats CA clean. CA has 22 invul frames, 30 frame total, Muzzle comes out in 26

Prolly not the best idea to CA after 6A/6C if you think your opponent is autopiloting combos

...

What?

[TransientFaith]

Iono, I've done it a couple times, might be spacing dependent? I will upload it sometime if I can I guess

Edit: prolly not the best wording. Best to not use it after your opponent does autopilot d.6A/d.6C while you are in blockstun

Edited September 11, 2011 by TransientFaith

[HexaNoid]

No, the wording was fine but the notation wasn't. It was confusing because d.6A > MF connects in a combo but 6A > MF obviously won't. That 'd.' makes all the difference. :P

[LunaKage]

OOOOOOHHHHHHH

You meant d.6A > d.6C > MF? That makes so much more sense.

[Arcknight]

That is actually pretty clever. If you think they might try and go for a Counter Assault, d.6C is where they would more than likely do it. The amount of hits and blockstun is very appealing to launch such a maneuver. Unfortunately it cannot be RC'd if it flops unlike a regular ender. It still might be worth a shot once in a while. Player habits come into play here once again.