[CS2-CSE] μ-12 Okizeme/Setups Thread (Updated 6.12.11)

[Aginor]

Reserved.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Aginor

[Aginor]

1. Midscreen Setups

These are good examples of midscreen options in combos ending with 6c. More to come.

6c > 5[d] > IAD - Provides the a high number of options on the opponent's wakeup. Mu can block wakeup dp, as well as go for a high/low with j.b/2b. Mu can also throw the opponent before the laser hits, or tick throw off the laser hit. It is important to note that the laser will not catch the opponent from rolling or hit meaty on neutral tech, but instead covers your options on their wakeup. Another bonus is that IAD > land 6b will cause the laser to hit after 6b, and allows you to combo off it where you usually could not. Landing 2b will catch forward rolls, whereas if the opponent rolls away then tries to jump out, the laser can still clip them.

6c > :5d > SoD - This setup is universally safe, it moves the opponent far out of range of things like wakeup dp. It will also catch both forward and backwards rolls. In the corner, because they recover in the air, the laser will force them to block no matter what direction they air tech. Very safe setup providing ample time to set more steins or move into other specials.

2b > 5c > 6c > 2d > j.2c > j.2d > 236a - This setup is safe, it moves the opponent out of range of things like wakeup dp. It will catch the forward roll. If the opponent neutral techs, the opponent will be forced to block the oncoming lasers which will allow you to set more steins or mix up the opponent. If the opponent uses the backward roll option, they have the choice of staying where they are to block the lasers or jump at you and air dash in. By the time the opponent is approaching you, you will have more than enough time to AA their move or air throw them if they think you will AA them. This setup is most effective if you have an extra stein behind the opponent. At this stage, you can use 236d and mix up your opponent in many different ways.

2b > 5c > 6c > 2d > 8:j.2c - This setup is mostly safe. It will catch any opponent that tries to roll forward and automatically bait most DPs and reversals. If the opponent forward rolls, j.2c will catch the opponent and you can do another combo. If they neutral tech reversal, it will whiff and the stein that you had set will counter hit your opponent. If they backwards roll, they will be across the screen from Mu which will allow her to zone again.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Aginor

[Aginor]

2. Corner Setups

These setups assume you just finished a corner bnb that creates steins in the corner and ends with j.2c. More to come.

3c > 214d - The go-to braindead setup for easy oki and mixup. 214d provides you with a huge window to do, basically, whatever you want, and breaks a primer to boot. Mu can also recover in time to block wakeup reversals. The largest benefit of this setup is that if you manage to hit your opponent it leads into very substantial damage.

j.x[d] - This ender works similar to the 5[d] ender midscreen, covering Mu's mixup and allowing for a more pinpoint, aggressive offense.

8:j.2c > j.5d > 236a - A passive setup that leaves Mu completely protected, though airbourne. Meaty 236a will punish all rolls and force block on wakeup, whereas Mu is far above the range of any dp, including Infernal Divider and Ashura. Mu can fall after the 236a into a j.b/2b mixup, which is for the most part hidden by the 236a graphic. In addition to all this the j.5d will hit after the 236a is done, providing even more time for Mu to do as she wishes. In the case where the opponent tries to dp, it will be punished by either j.5d will combo off 236a, giving you ample time to pick up a punish combo, albeit a heavily prorated one.

Edited June 28, 2011 by Aginor

[C0R]

First post updated with basic setups.

Edit - And again.

Edited May 23, 2011 by C0R

[Absinthe]

Don't know if it's the right section to post them, but in these days I found some setups and techtraps without steins

2C CH > 6C - Good to carry the opponent to the corner instead of focusing on damage by doing 2C CH > 866 > j.C > j.2C. Meh timing but not so difficult, a nice shortcut would be 2C CH > 214D (whiff) > 6C

6A CH > 236A - Now that 236A does 5 hits, if the opponent neutral airtechs after the first three, the last two will hit after its tech, allowing you to continue with j.C > j.2C > 663B etc. You can also do it off a wallbounce, like 6C > SoD (cornerbound) > 6A > 236A. The effect is similar to Dormammu's flaming ball in MvC3 btw lol.

Oh and IT WORKS ONLY ON ARAKUNE, LAMBDA AND RAGNA. Pretty awful.

(corner) SoD / pickup 2B > 6A > j.2C > j.236A - Basically, everything turns around the untechable knockdown of j.2C. So, when the opponent teches:

Neutral -> opponent hit by habaya or blocking it -> mixup time!

Forward -> too much to explain. In poor words: in order to beat a forward tech you have to read the future or have a extremely good control of spacing. When speaking about a forward tech, this setup isn't charaspecific, it's... Range-specific. If you're too close to the corner when you do 6A > j.2C, habaya will completely whiff on some character (Makoto, Platinum and Valk, atm I tried it only on them); but if you reach a optimal range, habaya will eat forward techs of every character.

On Tager and Ragna habaya hit at any distance, but I still have to try on others.

So... If you, from where you are, know that j.236A WOULD NOT hit in case of a forward tech, the best option is to pick the opponent up by doing 663B and stop worrying about it.

Memo: I also have to try 6A > back jump 2C > j.236A, it seems an acceptable solution to get rid of this retarded range-related issue.

Well then:

- If the opponent delays its tech, j.236A hits OTG and it's possible to continue the blue beated combo

- Immediate okizeme situation

- Depending on distance from corner, j.236A can also become an ambiguous crossup

- SCARY MIXUP if the opponent blocks: if he block low, j.B or 6B; if high, 5B! I suppose this could turn out as an unblockable setup

-It's like some of those Akuma's traps w/ air hadoukens lol

214D (hit) > 6B > 6A > j.2C > j.236A - midscreen variation that eats neutral techs and forward techs. The opponent has to obbligatory tech backward and go back to the place where he belongs - the corner.

[Halcyone3]

- Depending on distance from corner, j.236A can also become an ambiguous crossup

may be a dumb question but... how so?

[Absinthe]

Same thing of j.236A whiffing on forward tech, it's all a matter of timing and distance aaaand hitboxes I suppose? AFAIK, the more late the opponent neutral techs, the more chances of having a j.236A "have-to-guess-if-it's-a" crossup

[Halcyone3]

Same thing of j.236A whiffing on forward tech, it's all a matter of timing and distance aaaand hitboxes I suppose? AFAIK, the more late the opponent neutral techs, the more chances of having a j.236A "have-to-guess-if-it's-a" crossup

nonono i got that part, i'm mostly asking whether u mean:

-u have a chance to dash over them and cross-up, or

-the thing flies over them and hits them from behind

because if u mean the 2nd, its not really a cross-up.

[Aginor]

Don't know if it's the right section to post them, but in these days I found some setups and techtraps without steins

2C CH > 6C - Good to carry the opponent to the corner instead of focusing on damage by doing 2C CH > 866 > j.C > j.2C. Meh timing but not so difficult, a nice shortcut would be 2C CH > 214D (whiff) > 6C

6A CH > 236A - Now that 236A does 5 hits, if the opponent neutral airtechs after the first three, the last two will hit after its tech, allowing you to continue with j.C > j.2C > 663B etc. You can also do it off a wallbounce, like 6C > SoD (cornerbound) > 6A > 236A. The effect is similar to Dormammu's flaming ball in MvC3 btw lol.

Oh and IT WORKS ONLY ON ARAKUNE, LAMBDA AND RAGNA. Pretty awful.

(corner) SoD / pickup 2B > 6A > j.2C > j.236A - Basically, everything turns around the untechable knockdown of j.2C. So, when the opponent teches:

Neutral -> opponent hit by habaya or blocking it -> mixup time!

Forward -> too much to explain. In poor words: in order to beat a forward tech you have to read the future or have a extremely good control of spacing. When speaking about a forward tech, this setup isn't charaspecific, it's... Range-specific. If you're too close to the corner when you do 6A > j.2C, habaya will completely whiff on some character (Makoto, Platinum and Valk, atm I tried it only on them); but if you reach a optimal range, habaya will eat forward techs of every character.

On Tager and Ragna habaya hit at any distance, but I still have to try on others.

So... If you, from where you are, know that j.236A WOULD NOT hit in case of a forward tech, the best option is to pick the opponent up by doing 663B and stop worrying about it.

Memo: I also have to try 6A > back jump 2C > j.236A, it seems an acceptable solution to get rid of this retarded range-related issue.

Well then:

- If the opponent delays its tech, j.236A hits OTG and it's possible to continue the blue beated combo

- Immediate okizeme situation

- Depending on distance from corner, j.236A can also become an ambiguous crossup

- SCARY MIXUP if the opponent blocks: if he block low, j.B or 6B; if high, 5B! I suppose this could turn out as an unblockable setup

-It's like some of those Akuma's traps w/ air hadoukens lol

214D (hit) > 6B > 6A > j.2C > j.236A - midscreen variation that eats neutral techs and forward techs. The opponent has to obbligatory tech backward and go back to the place where he belongs - the corner.

ok so uhh....

1. 2C CH > 6C works but I'd rather just do 2c ch > jc > iad.f > j.c > j.2c > dash > 3c > sod. Better corner carry or if you want oki then replace 3c > sod with 2b > 5c > 6c.

2. 6A CH > 236A I recommend NOT doing this. It only works if they tech neutral. If they tech forward or back, you're essentially putting the game back into neutral which I don't really suggest.

3. (Corner) SoD / pickup 2B > 6A > j.2C > j.236A I haven't been able to use the j.236a as oki. I'd rather put out steins and stuff and then do 236a. Refer to the third setup in the corner setups. It's much more efficient as this one even if the opponent neutral techs, they can still DP you.

4. 214D (hit) > 6B> 6A. j.2C > j.236A Why not just do 2b > 5c > 6c after the j.2c? After the 6c you have the option of corner carry or oki. As with the previous setup, I'm pretty sure they can DP you...

In recent news, I've been working on a new midscreen setup. It's mostly good but have to test a few more things out.

[Halcyone3]

I actually meant the second, but it's also possible to dash over them and maybe fake a crossup. MINDGAEEEEMMMSS

dash under is valid, but the projectile flying over to the other side is not a cross-up. They don't have to switch block direction.

[C0R]

Copypasta from the combo thread.

As a note: For every combo that ends in j.2c knockdown, you can chose between meaty/whiff and late hit laser on neutral tech. Varying these options is very important when playing against an opponent who adapts quickly and is attentive.

Ex: Spark sees incoming laser on his neutral tech, and believing it will meaty, wakes up with 6d/2d, but you chose for it to whiff when you placed it, and he eats a throw punish combo from the cross under.

[pochp]

Which steins after j.2C are sure to meaty or sure to whiff? I mean, I will definitely go figure this out for myself in training mode at some point this week, but it would be good to have a list here anyways.

[C0R]

It's actually less depending on the steins, and more where in the air you hit them with j.2c, similar to the midscreen oki from cs1.

[pochp]

Alright might as well post my setups, if we want a list to grow somehow, even if I've taken them from JP players mostly.

midscreen :

(airthrow) 236A. it's safe to most DPs I think, awesome for catching hazamas that mash jayoku.

(airthrow) dash2B. I the opponent neutral techs you roll under and if I'm not mistaken are at frame advantage, if he rolls you catch the roll, if he doesn't tech... combo!

....5C 6C 5D SoD dash 6D 214D. really often the opponent will get hit by the 5D which combos into 214D. The followup combo is dash 6B ender (ex: 5C 5D 6C dash 6D 214D :P) also, if they block the 5D, the explosion frame traps, so sometimes you catch them with it for major damage. If they jump, you can do air unblockables, burn their barrier... it's an excellent setup until they figure it out.

...5C 6C 4D j.2C j.6D j.236D. Really simple, gets the laser out for a little while to cover your mixup.

corner : (after j.2C with a stein in place)

j.6[D] 5C, level 3 SoD (I think), ]D[ 214D. breaks two primers, can go for an extra SoD or mixup depending on the situation, it's pretty cool.

3C(still in combo) 236A 214D. Simple and effective, reversal safe I think.

(after 6C)

5D 214D 2B. classic, super effective against opponents that you did 214D(blocked) 6B at some point.

5[D] j.B -> mixup. I think the j.B is a safe jump (reversal safe), so it puts you in a good position for mixup.

5[D] j.B 9jc (delay) j.2C. REALLY AMBIGUOUS crossup. sadly, doesn't lead to much besides 2A 5B 5C SoD, so it's more of a meterless finisher because it takes your opp. out of the corner.

5[D] j.B 8jc j.B. high-high, laser comes in for more mixup, not the best but can catch someone off guard.

[xntrikcat]

I've been working on this primer break setup, it's glorious when it works.

(in the corner) ~ 2b 6a 7j.c j.2c j.2[D] (Opponent techs) Meaty 2b 5c SoD RC j.]2d[ 214d -> 2b/6b or lvl 2 or 3 SoD

I think this might be the most number of primers you can break in 1 setup. If you 7j.c, the j.2[d] will be placed slightly behind the opponent. It's close enough to hit when exploded. So, 1 primer from the first SoD, 2 primers from 214d, then 1~2 more if you follow up with SoD.

If they forward roll or don't block the 2b after neutral tech, you can 2b 5c 2c j.2]d[ (delayed) SoD into corner combo again.

The opponent can escape this setup by doing wakeup DP, ib 5c and dp the SoD, or by CA. You can bait them as needed.

[pochp]

Nice, that one's pretty similar to the one I posted, but I didn't think there was a way to get the j.2D to explode on the opponent. I'll have to go play around with this in the lab. By the way, I can usually get away with mine without needing the RC, you might want to try that out. It's great because it allows you to keep the meter for a SoD RC SoD if you need to break more primers.

[xntrikcat]

I haven't extensively tested this one, but this is a midscreen setup I've been screwing around with.

throw 5c 6c 5d j.2c 663b 5c 6c 6d j.2c j.2[d]

After that I tend to improvise based on how the opponent techs, when the 6d hits, and when the j.2[d] hits. It's the only midscreen throw setup i've found so far that has j.2d sitting right on top of the opponent. Maybe someone can come up with something more concrete.

throw 66a 5c 6c 6d j.2c 663b 5c (6d hits) (opponent techs) SoD.

This is an air unblockable reset. I've had it work a couple times when I'm trolling. The payoff is great if the opponent tries to mash out and the SoD catches him into the corner.

C'mon people I know you're hiding some seriously broken setups, let's see them.

[pochp]

While making the new video thread, I was watching some of the matches, and I saw this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cQMlui0OrI#t=22m15s ...j.2C 3C 214D throw.

wow it was green? seems like a really nice and simple setup. I think I'll watch every video again, I'll post anything else I see that looks efficient and hasn't already been posted.

[TD]

what time on the vid?

[pochp]

Exactly when the combo he was doing at 22m15s finished, but the jin teched the throw. Probably OS'd, or was used to playing that guy. How can you see that coming the first time lol?

[C0R]

:< ah man someone found some of my secret tech, hopefully it'll still work at Evo.

Depending on how they tech, the stein will not hit meaty, at least not exactly, there are small gaps during the bomb, so even though it has 28 active frames it's more like 7[4]7[4]7[4]7 (estimate), the bomb has more than 3 hit instances even though it only hits 3 times. Anyway, if they neutral tech and are in the gap between explosions, their character is at neutral, and all throws will be green.

[FlyingVe]

I wanted to point something out to all the Mu players:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o60SVSI5X8Q&feature=feedu

Go to 3:10 in the video. If you ever block a DP in this situation and the RC it... Grab they ass. They have to press A+B+C to RC which will put them in a TRM-able state for a bit, so the throw is unbreakable. Just wait till the laser hits them and grab them in guard stun, it doesn't matter because of the TRM situation.

[C0R]

I don't think anyone knows about this yet, so I'm going to go ahead and post it.

I think I've found the ultimate midscreen setup, at least, I found it a month ago but haven't considered posting it until it was battle tested.

6c > 2d > ~SoD > 6d > 214d - most optimal off throw > 6a > j.2c > 2b > 5c > 6c > ...

Notes on performing the setup

-The 2d stein cancel must be performed as soon as possible during the recovery of 6c, enough that canceling it into SoD LEVEL TWO will clip them right before they hit the ground.

-Including a dash before 6d is heavily discouraged for multiple reasons, just don't do it.

-6d 214d should be performed as quickly as possible.

This setup will punish the following options with stein hit/otg > 214d hit > full combo

-Emergency Tech (hits meaty)

-Quick Rise

-Forward Roll

-Backward Roll

-No Tech (resets the combo proration)

-Late Neutral Tech (hits meaty)

-]d[ > 214d is gapless on block, as well as very meaty, giving you plenty of time to dash forward for pressure

-ALL REVERSALS will be out of range, and most will cause the stein hit to whiff, but be punished by CH 214d

The only thing it doesn't punish is Hakumen's Neutral Tech > Drive, obviously.

The greatest thing about this setup is that it requires NO VARIATION IN TIMING to catch the different tech options, for this reason:

SoD is only emergency techable, and teching immediately has a long animation, allowing the stein to start up and hit meaty. Because SoD is only emergency techable, the opponent is forced to wait for the emergency tech window to end before they are able to roll. This window is nearly identical in length to the emergency tech animation, but shorter by barely 2~4 frames, meaning that the stein that would hit meaty, now hits during the roll/no tech/quick rise animations, during the actual rise portion, in which they are in OTG state. This allows the small laser to pop them into the air and easily combo into 214d.

Because SoD throws the opponent to the far corner of the screen, and the small laser hit will hit them BACKWARDS, against the screen edge, they will stop moving, becoming locked in place because Mu is anchoring down the other corner, this is the reason you don't dash before 6d. Mu's anchoring of the screen causes the stein to always hit them into 214d, regardless of which way they tech.

In the worse case scenario possible, you get a primer, a free in, and a good mixup. I see no reason not to do it every time you're looking for the implied damage.

Edited August 30, 2011 by C0R

[C0R]

I don't think I've ever been in more of a rush to try something out.

If you want something that accurately shows the power of the setup, set the cp to

Airtech - Neutral

Emergency Tech - No (will always hit meaty)

Wake-up - Random

Stagger -Yes

[YukiBlue]

Okay, It took me a while to do it because I'm a visual learner, But now I have the basic idea of what this Setup is capable of. I'm just trying to nail is properly now. Thanks for the CP settings.

This is going to make a LOT of people very unhappy