Osmond Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Everyone from got Hammer was there, but now that that is cleared up. You really shouldn't need to collider more then once anyway, it prorate is as bad as they say. You won't be doing damage anyway, unless they mean collider whiff limiting specifically.
Manta Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 But it does mean that you can still do a second collider and then 2D. Which may be desirable for positioning reasons and magnetism, if not damage. Ending combos with 623C whiff, 6C > j.2C, 22D seems popular thus far.
A.X.I.S. Posted October 5, 2011 Author Posted October 5, 2011 It doesn't make sense to increase the untech time and then make the proration harder since one of Tager's problems was doing a extended combo and needing spark to continue. I always thought they wanted to fix issues like that, not do nothing about it. I think we might have some options after 360B>3C>collider...At least 360B>3C>MTW is 4400. With the increase to TB's damage it should do 5400 with 100 heat, the best thing about this is we can do this with 80 or so heat and still do supers without spark and magnetism which is great. So far I like this Tager, he sounds really fun. CS2 Tager wasn't fun. Edit: They also said Tager's Bsledge has better proration. This is wonderful.
Manta Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 Oh, the other thing about untechable double colliders is that you can make use of MTW and TB's minimum damage to get something decent out of it.
DeadliestxXx Posted October 6, 2011 Posted October 6, 2011 what does it mean when it says "They changed the SMP's atomic collider"
A.X.I.S. Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 Tager player Yuumura is using Asledge like its safe on block, Asledge looks like it has less recovery. Also close stuff>3C>Asledge gadget is confirmed to work on Lambda.
TagerTime Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 Tager player Yuumura is using Asledge like its safe on block, Asledge looks like it has less recovery. Also close stuff>3C>Asledge gadget is confirmed to work on Lambda. i love that yuumura combo in the second round. It showed we can use gadget to extend combos now lol 5A>2B>5B>3C>ACwhiff>J.2C>5B>5C>6A>2C>AC>gadget>6C>j.2C>3C>gadget 2484dmg and over 52 heat
A.X.I.S. Posted October 9, 2011 Author Posted October 9, 2011 I like the spark change. We can use it near the corner without worrying about them flying over our heads and we can beat panic bursts by just doing it. Sadly the change makes it easier for us to get bursted after spark when we try to suck them in with collider.
Mucky Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 I like the spark change. We can use it near the corner without worrying about them flying over our heads and we can beat panic bursts by just doing it. Sadly the change makes it easier for us to get bursted after spark when we try to suck them in with collider. Well right now, you can actually spark in the corner and hit them as they fly over your head if you time it right. 5CxxAC will put them right back into the corner. I have no idea if it's an efficient usage of spark, but it looks stylish.
Osmond Posted October 9, 2011 Posted October 9, 2011 I thought the Spark nurf would have left us off worse then that, but I think we can work with it.
Zeron_X25 Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 Can someone tell me why people prefer to do the AC whiff > 6B combo instead of j.D > j.2C > 2B > etc? Or even j.C > j.B > 5C >
Tetra - K Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 i love that yuumura combo in the second round. It showed we can use gadget to extend combos now lol 5A>2B>5B>3C>ACwhiff>J.2C>5B>5C>6A>2C>AC>gadget>6C>j.2C>3C>gadget 2484dmg and over 52 heat What's the point since (AC) would have be the same °°
Mucky Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Can someone tell me why people prefer to do the AC whiff > 6B combo instead of j.D > j.2C > 2B > etc? Or even j.C > j.B > 5C > 2B has worse proration in CS2 which might affect untechable time on 2nd AC, j.D whiff > j.2C is hard to do online, etc. Pretty much no reason not to do j.C whiff > j.B but that's character-specific anyway AC would not have been the same. Its been reported and i have seen it in one of these vids that they can tech out of the 2nd collider now. GF pulled them out of the air fast enough to prevent that and continue the combo. Its used in the same way 4D gadget is used now in CS2 but gadget is much faster and maybe has stronger mag pull than 4D. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Ht8am_PXVWM#t=816s I don't see a 2nd AC in that combo...
TagerTime Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I don't see a 2nd AC in that combo... oh i thought i did nvm then. i need some sleep
Osmond Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 I don't see a 2nd AC in that combo... There were two colliders but one was only a whiff to People's elbow, but I think I see what he means that the one that hit left Lambda too far to still combo without the magnetism from gadget pulling her back in for 6C. It looks like the fall on a second collider does not bounce normally keeping you from just yanking them back with a third.
A.X.I.S. Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 2B has worse proration in CS2 which might affect untechable time on 2nd AC, j.D whiff > j.2C is hard to do online, etc. Pretty much no reason not to do j.C whiff > j.B but that's character-specific anyway 2B's P1 was nerfed not its P2. 6B's p2 was much better and it did more damage, you only do 2B if you are dealing with netplay or a laggy TV. J.C>j.B does more damage than a normal combo and add more meter, so what if doesn't work on half the cast, do it on everyone you can do it on but Jin. Jin is not worth it IMO. To answer Zeron's question it's pretty simple, it's a execution barrier.
Zeron_X25 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 j.D whiff > j.2C is hard to do online, etc.Pretty much no reason not to do j.C whiff > j.B but that's character-specific anyway What? That shit is easier than collider whiff combo and I've yet to drop it in netplay unless I meant to. j.C > j.B is character specific? Felt the same for every character I tried it on :\ 2B's P1 was nerfed not its P2. 6B's p2 was much better and it did more damage, you only do 2B if you are dealing with netplay or a laggy TV. J.C>j.B does more damage than a normal combo and add more meter, so what if doesn't work on half the cast, do it on everyone you can do it on but Jin. Jin is not worth it IMO. To answer Zeron's question it's pretty simple, it's a execution barrier. Are you telling me Akira and 80% of Japanese Tagers can't do Tager combos?
A.X.I.S. Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 What? That shit is easier than collider whiff combo and I've yet to drop it in netplay unless I meant to. j.C > j.B is character specific? Felt the same for every character I tried it on :\ Are you telling me Akira and 80% of Japanese Tagers can't do Tager combos? 1. It is harder than 6B>2C and you only get around 200 extra damage for it. 2. I didn't say that, it has a certain execution barrier to cross, Akira did it quite often in CS2 but not in CS1 because j.D>j.2C was a lot harder back then.
Zeron_X25 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 1. It is harder than 6B>2C and you only get around 200 extra damage for it. 2. I didn't say that, it has a certain execution barrier to cross, Akira did it quite often in CS2 but not in CS1 because j.D>j.2C was a lot harder back then. But I've seen countless Tager matches now and they barely ever do any combos other than collider whiff. I thought there's a certain advantage that I am not aware of. Like 6B for burst bait, etc. But it doesn't seem to be the case. ok thanks for clearing that up for me.
Osuna Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 What? That shit is easier than collider whiff combo and I've yet to drop it in netplay unless I meant to. j.C > j.B is character specific? Felt the same for every character I tried it on :\ Are you telling me Akira and 80% of Japanese Tagers can't do Tager combos?If collider whiff is harder for you than that, you're doing it wrong O_o. They give you like a bajillion years to do collider whiff. I've literally dropped the controller mid match by accident and got the combo anyway. (I have a condition>.>) J.C >J.B is character specific. Try to follow up with 5C 6A on hakumen, or try to hit makoto with it at all, or try to hit makoto with J.Dwhiff J.2C 2B 2C for that matter. Collider whiff 6B 2C also works on more levels of proration and prorates less, so a lot of combos get more options (and sometimes heat/damage if you go for more hits before the collider) in more situations. It'll also put people back in the corner with you closer by. This makes some corner combos possible/less character specific if I'm not mistaken. If you could only use one, Acx2 6B 2C simply works in the most situations on the most characters. I can't say this is what they are doing, there's too many instances for me to be able to give you a concise and complete answer.
Isorropia Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 From something like a 2B or 6A starter, doing j.D whiff >2B 2C instead of AC whiff 6B 2C gains about...70 damage or something pathetic. Even if you hit the j.D whiff combo most of the time...the risk of dropping the harder combo in this case far outweighs the (miniscule) benefit of landing it. Other characters have difficult combos that have damage bonuses that make them worth doing, but for ~70 extra damage.....I'll stick with the easy combo. So for the Japanese players, it's not that they can't do the combos, it's that they don't think they're worth doing. (My interpretation of why they're doing it, at least)
Zeron_X25 Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 If collider whiff is harder for you than that, you're doing it wrong O_o. They give you like a bajillion years to do collider whiff. I've literally dropped the controller mid match by accident and got the combo anyway. (I have a condition>.>) J.C >J.B is character specific. Try to follow up with 5C 6A on hakumen, or try to hit makoto with it at all, or try to hit makoto with J.Dwhiff J.2C 2B 2C for that matter. Collider whiff 6B 2C also works on more levels of proration and prorates less, so a lot of combos get more options (and sometimes heat/damage if you go for more hits before the collider) in more situations. It'll also put people back in the corner with you closer by. This makes some corner combos possible/less character specific if I'm not mistaken. If you could only use one, Acx2 6B 2C simply works in the most situations on the most characters. I can't say this is what they are doing, there's too many instances for me to be able to give you a concise and complete answer. oh ok I see. btw I think you got it the wrong way. Makoto can be easily j.D whiffed. j.B is hard/impossible on her (Not sure if it works on her). Hakumen isn't hard at all though.
Osuna Posted October 16, 2011 Posted October 16, 2011 Is Tager actually good this time around?This is a question I'm sure will float in the minds of a lot of people for a while, but the simple fact is right now no one knows. Even Japanese match videos show people getting baiting for out dated muscle memory still. Combos are also early drafts, and some nuances of changes are yet to be discovered. Even if you can objectively look at Tager's stats and say "Yeah that's not bad" it is meaningless if everyone else is much better.
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