How reliable are Tier List?

[greysguardian]

And how exactly are they made? :/ I know that Makoto is S Tier, but how did they make the Tiers?

[YukiBlue]

Matchups.

They calculate every characters matchups on a grid, and the ones with the majority of good matches end up higher in the tiers.

Although, Tiers don't really mean shit in this game.

[SlyRoyale]

Although, Tiers don't really mean shit in this game.

Sigging for truth.

[yashanyu1]

Matchups.

Although, Tiers don't really mean shit in this game.

A Hakumen can win EVO so I gotta agree xD

[Kyosuke Kagami]

It's just statistic shit.

But as statistics, taking them literally is for brain-dead people (AKA people who only use chars because they're highly ranked are morons... and most of the time they usually suck big balls because they don't learn to use those chars).

[Leaf]

retards and a beaner, retards and a beaner everywhere

[Rhiya]

Matchups.

They calculate every characters matchups on a grid, and the ones with the majority of good matches end up higher in the tiers.

Although, Tiers don't really mean shit in this game.

Every Tager player is shaking their head at you right now.

Every last one.

[Star-Demon]

There are a lot of assumptions when it comes to tier lists.

Firstly, that they are science - they try to be, but they re not honest about the endeavor. \

Secondly, they assume equal skill level, and unspokenly - they assume it on a high tier level.

Thirdly, they are simply numbers given to circumstances. From what I understand, while we measure it as on a 1-10 scale - translating them into matchup data, this doesn't mean we have a sufficient N, nor do we have a sufficient representation of the characters or matchups outside of our assumed context.

This is why you hear a joke about "American Tier list" where Tager is on top. :P

Tier lists are not the Word of God. They are deeply flawed and make a lot of assumptions and rely on context to understand properly.

I use matchup data often when I chat in streams or commentary - I do this because people like data, and that's what little we have until someone a little more motivated and knowledgeable than me comes along and implements a proper and efficient process for gathering and interpreting matchup data for EVERYONE. I do it because people like data and the Tier lists are a guideline to a matchup, not a law.

[Eshi]

It's just statistic shit.

But as statistics, taking them literally is for brain-dead people (AKA people who only use chars because they're highly ranked are morons... and most of the time they usually suck big balls because they don't learn to use those chars).

It's not statistics at all. Maybe theoretical statistics, but no one is actually collecting and compiling data for it. It's just a couple of high level players who throw their experiences and opinions together. The only exception I can think of is the super smash brothers community which really does take statistics on character placings at tournaments to determine tiers.

There are also quite a few very strong/popular players who only pick top tier characters (Tokido, Floe, Daigo, the list goes on) so having a stigma against picking top tiers is pointless. Both good and bad players do it, and don't do it.

With that said - tier lists can be quite reliable, but should be taken with a grain of salt. Even if certain positions are set in stone (Makoto S, Tager bottom) there are a lot of nuances that differ based on experience, like some top players hate to play against Valkenhyn therefore rank him higher than others do.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Eshi

[Linear04]

holy crap lock this thread please, ive seen like 1 useful post here and the rest are stupid

[Redgrave]

There are certain ways a tier list is useful, and others it is garbage. Firstly, the biggest mistake new players make is by choosing their main after seeing that X character is S-tier. A good player using a B-tier character can destroy a mediocre player using an A-tier character.

Some tier lists come from a variety of considered things, including Arcade statistics and the like. Other tier lists come from specific player's personal opinions. I know Justin Wong has an MvC3 Tier list somewhere and Ogawa has a GGXXAC one. There are some things about a tier list that are always going to be true, some characters -do- tend to be better than others. In Soul Calibur 4, Raphiel is clearly better than Rock. in MvC2 Sentinel and Magneto were in 99% of all championship wins. In the original Street Fighter 4, Saggat was ridiculously broken. Most tier lists are just a basic attempt to organize the characters.

The best strategy I find is to just pick a character you enjoy playing and get good with him or her, tier list discussions tend to be overdone anyway.

[Redgrave]

Basically it's all in how you read them. If you carve a tier list into a mystic stone tablet and preach it to the masses you're going to go nowhere, but if you use it as a loose reference guide open for interpretation then you shouldn't have any problems.

[Dusty]

Tier lists determine how hard a character has to work vs. how hard another character has to work in said match up. THERE! Alrighty close this thread up