A.X.I.S. Posted October 11, 2011 Author Posted October 11, 2011 J.A seems to have more untech time on CH which is pretty lol when J.A is the only A normal with 100p1, maybe they changed that though. So far the best you can do off a Asledge after 3C is: 3C>Asledge>5A>4D. I have also seen gadget work after the Asledge as well. Edit: Spark>6A (hold slightly)>collider works.
Tetra - K Posted October 11, 2011 Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) A-B-3C-ASledge combo, untechable till you touch the ground form what it looks like, 999 damage. Looks useless, but it seems like it could be followed up with...Something. Seems strange it would end with putting the opponent in that state before he techs. 5A > 5B > 3C > ASledge > SB > AC > Egadget No? But well the prorate after SB drop a lot... would only do like 2,300 damage... Edited October 11, 2011 by Tetra - K
the_difinitive Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L9Z1RmOpYb4#t=143s pretty sure this confirms that the time when you can cancel into 720 has hugely increased or that you can 720 once you've blocked with VC superarmor because that's WELL past the first 11 frames.
Manta Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Block into 720 seems to be the trick. That's doubly nasty because they're in extended blockstun from landing on VC meaning that 720 is active before even a rapid cancel jump can save them. Holy balls that's strong.
Isorropia Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Block into 720 seems to be the trick. That's doubly nasty because they're in extended blockstun from landing on VC meaning that 720 is active before even a rapid cancel jump can save them. Holy balls that's strong. Er...I don't think that's true. I know moves like yukikaze and MTW put you in hitstop that you can't cancel out of, but hitting VTC is just like hitting a blocking opponent, you should be able to rapid just after your first active frame connects and then jump out of the 5 frame 720. Unless I don't understand hitstop properly, which is entirely possible.
Darlos9D Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L9Z1RmOpYb4#t=143s pretty sure this confirms that the time when you can cancel into 720 has hugely increased or that you can 720 once you've blocked with VC superarmor because that's WELL past the first 11 frames. If Makoto hit Tager during Voltic, I can't for the life of me see it. It looks to me like he did 720 without having to guard point anything at all. Unless her downward punch thing hit the guard point. In which case holy shit that 720 came out INSTANTLY upon her touching him. Fun times.
Brice Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 it is now awesome that tager can cancel vtc into 720 as far as the third pulse of the charge I am indeed hype for this but can he cancel it only after a guard pointed attack or can he still cancel out of nowhere but now with as long as several pulses in the middle of the charge... also when a move is guardpointed there is a 5 frame freeze that happens to the character hitting the guard point where he can do absolutely nothing even if you hit RC you will see the red circle but you won't be able to do anything until 5ish frames after the guardpoint occurs and since 720 is a 5 frame grab it's guaranteed if you manage to land it as soon as the guard point becomes active also I did something similar yesterday in cs2 I did a voltic 720 but a makoto 2a got guardpointed at the very beginning of he charge and then 720 came out. i would also vey much like if we could voltic 720 off of canceled normals into voltic.... but I guess it won't work and necessarily need a raw voltic
WolfCrimson Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Soo... is Tager actually good now? I've only seen good things in the vids, and inb4 they haven''t figured out the characters yet, it's already been a week and CS2>CSX wasn't a huge change.
Darlos9D Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) You know... Voltic charge's autoguard starts at frame 6. If we compare that to the startup frames of the rest of his moves, that makes it his fastest "starting" non-throw. If we compare it to the defensive frame data of his other moves, it beats both 2C and AC in regards to anti-air frames startup, and beats 6A in regards to super armor startup, so once again its his "quickest in defense" non-throw. Now that we can cancel it onto Hammer AND 720 on guardpoint, I almost wonder if voltic might be useful as some kind of anti-air, since they can't really hit you low or throw you from the air. Of course they have to actually hit us for the guard point to make everything else work... I think. Plus I'm not sure about the "5 frame freeze" Brice mentions, especially regarding its effects on rapid cancel. Is that true? If not it might not be worth it if its too easy for the opponent to escape the followups. Edited October 12, 2011 by Darlos9D
A.X.I.S. Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Contrary to your believe some characters have gotten a big enough change for them to not know what they are doing completely. Not only that Tager has new gimmicks to run through so it's no surprise if people are losing to troll Tager. Tager is quite different as well, is he good? not sure but he looks really fun. Edit: Hahaha TOM canceled VTC with 720 without the guard point, I find this pretty trippy. Edited October 12, 2011 by A.X.I.S.
Hecatom Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 the more i see about this ne tager, the more im hyped, it really looks fun to play with, the wait for the console release would be long :/
WolfCrimson Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Edit: Hahaha TOM canceled VTC with 720 without the guard point, I find this pretty trippy. Guardpoint was activated, you can hear the guard effect sound the moment before 720 superscreen flashes.
Osmond Posted October 12, 2011 Posted October 12, 2011 Guardpoint was activated, you can hear the guard effect sound the moment before 720 superscreen flashes. You must have acute hearing... So...does that mean VTC is cancel-able to any special on guardpoint? Here, I thought it was only hammer
A.X.I.S. Posted October 12, 2011 Author Posted October 12, 2011 Guardpoint was activated, you can hear the guard effect sound the moment before 720 superscreen flashes. Really? I only heard the sound of Tager doing the 720 and the air normal Makoto used looks like it whiffed since I didn't see any hitstop. Gonna take your word for it though.
Osuna Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Really? I only heard the sound of Tager doing the 720 and the air normal Makoto used looks like it whiffed since I didn't see any hitstop. Gonna take your word for it though.VC gives hitstop?
Darlos9D Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Massive hitstop. How much though? Brice said 5 frames, and I just wanted to confirm. Also does it really delay rapid cancel? EDIT: Okay I think I'm confusing "hitstop" with "extra opponent recovery." But still I'd like to know the answer, so I can peruse frame data and do some theoryfighting. Edited October 13, 2011 by Darlos9D
Manta Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Basically, the usual occurrence is hitting the guardpoint on MTW, RCing and holidng back to guard, but getting hit anyway.
Darlos9D Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Yeah I've noticed that people have been RCing after hitting MTW's guardpoint and then getting hit anyway. Are they just fucking up or is RCing against that now worthless? Because if that's the case that'll make me a happy camper. I was always kinda bitter about how MTW wasn't really a solid reversal. EDIT: I've had explained to me that hitting MTW's guardpoint and rapiding only saves you if you hit the guardpoint during MTW's startup frames. I've seen RCing against it fail so much in CSX matches, though, that I can't help but wonder if something changed regarding MTW's startup, or the "guard point stun" itself. I guess we'll just have to wait until somebody over in Japan figures it all out. I'll go back and look at some videos, though. EDIT AGAIN: Phew, finally. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=05ARkdQZBAE#t=12m54s Here we see Ragna's 5B hitting MTW's guardpoint pretty early on. the 5B was coming out before MTW even started up. Ragna RC'd and still got hit, even though it was early in the MTW. Here's hoping RCs really are worthless against MTW now! Either that or this Ragna's timing was just too late. But even then that makes it seem like the window to RC and block successfully is pretty damn small anyway. Edited October 14, 2011 by Darlos9D
TagerTime Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=L9Z1RmOpYb4#t=143s pretty sure this confirms that the time when you can cancel into 720 has hugely increased or that you can 720 once you've blocked with VC superarmor because that's WELL past the first 11 frames. i definitely didn't see that video. Im so Happy im crying tears of joy.
Afro-Demon Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 That clash at 11:40...I wonder if that means it got a better hitbox since it clashed with ID. Might've just been coincidence, but honestly 2D looks alright so long as it at least puts them in some kind of stun. Not that it's still not suicide anytime else.
Isorropia Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Here's hoping RCs really are worthless against MTW now! Either that or this Ragna's timing was just too late. But even then that makes it seem like the window to RC and block successfully is pretty damn small anyway. Sorry to be the one to do this, but... http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm15881066 3:11 in that. Makoto 5B's a MTW, RCs and blocks in time. it looks like maybe makoto connected earlier in the MTW...but still.
Manta Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Yeah I've noticed that people have been RCing after hitting MTW's guardpoint and then getting hit anyway. Are they just fucking up or is RCing against that now worthless? Because if that's the case that'll make me a happy camper. I was always kinda bitter about how MTW wasn't really a solid reversal. EDIT: I've had explained to me that hitting MTW's guardpoint and rapiding only saves you if you hit the guardpoint during MTW's startup frames. I've seen RCing against it fail so much in CSX matches, though, that I can't help but wonder if something changed regarding MTW's startup, or the "guard point stun" itself. I guess we'll just have to wait until somebody over in Japan figures it all out. I'll go back and look at some videos, though. EDIT AGAIN: Phew, finally. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=05ARkdQZBAE#t=12m54s Here we see Ragna's 5B hitting MTW's guardpoint pretty early on. the 5B was coming out before MTW even started up. Ragna RC'd and still got hit, even though it was early in the MTW. Here's hoping RCs really are worthless against MTW now! Either that or this Ragna's timing was just too late. But even then that makes it seem like the window to RC and block successfully is pretty damn small anyway. Well the way it works is, when you hit a guard point on MTW and VC, only the attacker gets hitstop, you can rapid in hitstop, but you still need a single frame of not being in stun to actually block, and RCs don't actually cancel it. That 5B looked to have started up at the later than MTW, since it hit the guard point after the superflash (MTW takes superflashes on the 8th frame, 5B goes active on the 9th). You're looking about about 10 frames of hitstop.
Commanderoftroy Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 It definitely seems like Tager can get damage a little more often he did in CS2 and look entertaining while doing it. The lack of good normals and ways to deal with a few characters could still hold him back unless charge sledge helps more than im thinking. I think there will be a few more resets and traps coming off 3C being special cancelable now.
Darlos9D Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Ah, I was misunderstanding where the "start" of MTW was. My bad. I thought I'd post some of Osuna's thoughts from Skype, on that point in the video, since they were more insightful than mine: "(says something about MTW guard point hitstop only affecting the opponent) Which is a definite change. Also the fact that the IBed 3C wasn't punished by 5B intrigues me. Not only wasn't it punished but MTW got all the way past the super flash before it hit. That implies a lot of changed values." Tager does feel a bit safer on block overall, I do have to say. Such as on Sledge A, 2D, and now 3C as Osuna points out.
Recommended Posts