[CSE] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[-Kid]

Yeah so far I get them after the RC, it's just tough spending the meter simply to bait it when I need that to really get in there and kick some ass, lol. The only other thing that consistently baits them for me is corner throws, but it's not like I can just walk up and do those at will.

Most burst baiting comes from knowing your opponent, player specificity. If you play against people enough, you wouldn't need to waste 50 heat trying to bait a burst, you could just use DS, 2C or 5C..or any other JC moves. You'll also learn thier bursting habbits. Don't try too hard to bait a burst though, otherwise you'll find yourself dropping combos for no reason, if you get too predictable.

To be honest, I don't see this ridiculous high damage output everyone complains about.

^ This. I also don't see it. His damage output is moderate. Maybe it's because he can deal moderate damage, so often, in any situation?

To be honest, most of you are right when you say it's just salt, but it's a combination of bad match-ups too, that give people a reason to complain about ragna. I mean, do you ever see a valkenhayn or mu player ever complaining about ragna? no. (Well maybe sometimes, but the main complaints come from people that are salty about bad match ups involving ragna).

[Callisto]

I guess I was always wondering since it came up lol, I'm assuming there's no consensus on if Carnage Scissors is useful or not? I tend to use most of my meter on RCs or CAs but I almost never use BK since I have trouble consistently land BK combos, especially ending with DbD. Typically if they're low on health and I'm iffy on what proration will do to a combo I just CS for the sure damage.

[VR-Raiden]

I guess I was always wondering since it came up lol, I'm assuming there's no consensus on if Carnage Scissors is useful or not? I tend to use most of my meter on RCs or CAs but I almost never use BK since I have trouble consistently land BK combos, especially ending with DbD. Typically if they're low on health and I'm iffy on what proration will do to a combo I just CS for the sure damage.

Carnage Scissors...

sucks

(don't look Lumin)

It's good for getting extra damage when it will kill, but if it won't kill it isn't worth it.

It can also punish certain would-be-safe supers, like if you do it during the super flash on Lambda swords super.

Basically a very situational super.

[LuminAbyss]

Realistically (like, I'm speaking honestly right now)

Carnage Scissors is only useful against zoners, and only if you have another 50 heat to rapid, since that's 6k right there. You really really really are better off saving your meter for RCs or CAs. It's a great super when going for the kill or attempting to gain a health lead (or even gain some health back).

Also I only use BK when I feel like being an asshole, it's really, really, REALLY, not necessary.

So yeah, it's a pretty crappy super.

But hey, we have Inferno Divider, that's why we don't have a great super, you know? We don't need it.

But man, the satisfaction you get from using CS as a reversal can't be replicated.

[Callisto]

Usually the extra health is the main reason why I use it, with the amount of times I get hit I'm never really comfortable with the amount of health that I have on him. Does the boost to using multiple drive moves in the same combo also apply to CS as the combo finisher as well?

[LuminAbyss]

Yeah, it applies to anything that involves his Soul Eater drive, specials and supers included.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Carnage Scissor is ass, and I main hakumen. That says a lot, unless you're doing; a sure-fire reversal at point blank range (invincibility frames), badly timed projectiles, to get/gain health/advantage, or a kill because of its minimum damage, it's ass. And exactly that's why he has the best dp in the game, only other ones that can compete with it are hotaru and rehhyou (though that one is controversial).

Why did they take out additional damage for carnage scissor when you're in BK btw? it actually made it less shitty when it had that (in my view).

[LuminAbyss]

Guess they wanted to encourage DbD as the go to BK super, you know? That's my guess, there really isn't any reason otherwise.

BK itself isn't that great. You can say whatever you want about max damage, hitting 5k consistently and sitting on meter for mix-up or reversaling is honestly much better as far as this version of Ragna is concerned. He gains meter so well, you don't need to hit that 7k combo, so long as you play smart and keep yourself safe with your heat.

I feel BK seems to go on and off with it's uses. CT it was really good, CS1 he doesn't need it., CS2 it was his high risk/high reward game, CSE he doesn't need it.

[MashThat5A]

He gains meter so well, you don't need to hit that 7k combo, so long as you play smart and keep yourself safe with your heat.

Optimal BK combos gain back the 50 meter you use, so it's pretty much free damage imo (unless they have a burst)

[LuminAbyss]

Optimal BK combos gain back the 50 meter you use, so it's pretty much free damage imo (unless they have a burst)

I'm pretty sure those need specific starters, which I'm usually not hitting with my j.As and 2Bs and 6A's and max range 5Bs. Though yes, those combos do give you back the heat, when you can use them.

Plus, you have to use that 50 heat the combo builds to hit that max damage (though the damage alone is usually good too).

[BladeOfJustice7]

BK is one of the more practical supers in the game (though I think Mugen is the only impractical one...). I'ts only troublesome to use if; your opponent is sitting on at least one burst (as stated above) and/or you activate empty (as in not using it as a reversal) or not using it at the beginning of a combo.

[LuminAbyss]

Starters and confirms are also a factor as well. I only really ever BK off overhead, Deadspike CH, or Fatal. But I don't get those anywhere near as often as max range 5B and 2B or anti-air 5A or 6A

[MashThat5A]

I'm pretty sure those need specific starters, which I'm usually not hitting with my j.As and 2Bs and 6A's and max range 5Bs.

j.a>j.C>jc>j.C>BE>6B>BK>combo builds back 50 meter

Proper confirms into BK are really, really good. They add around 1-2.5K more damage and build back the meter.

Edited April 5, 2012 by MashThat5A

[LuminAbyss]

j.a>j.C>jc>j.C>BE>6B>BK>combo builds back 50 meter

Proper confirms into BK are really, really good. They add around 1-2.5K more damage and build back the meter.

Oooh. I might start trying this, then. How much damage can I expect?

[MashThat5A]

Combo is j.A>j.C>j.C>BE>6B>BK>5C>5D(1)>DS>5C>5D(2)>DC>6D>623D(2)>236C>214D>j.D>5D(1)>214B>214D>6B>5D(1)>HF>TS>dash 3C>HF>TS>dash under 22C

Damage fails to come to me at the moment. You should watch the Tetsu BK combo bible.

[KayEff]

BK is also good after a burst bait, and is really good for capitalizing the punish

something like 5B/2C - 5D(1) - 214D - 5C - 5D(1) - 214214D - combo would get at least 5.5/6.5k raw, 7/8k with DbD ender (i think, i don't actually know the numbers)

[BladeOfJustice7]

I've seen satoshi do that once, though he did blood kain through a burst, still not quite sure if that was intentional or not....

[LuminAbyss]

He means more that people burst the second they see blood kain.

Though smart players will just wait for that 5B confirm to burst, if that's the kind of combo route you're going. I really wish Ragna had burst safe combos.

[MashThat5A]

No, he means after you bait a burst, a BK combo is a good idea because of the huge damage.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I really wish Ragna had burst safe combos.

Belial Edge is good against bad bursts.

@mash, yea that's very true.

[Gramas]

anyone knows how to practice fuzzy guard after 22C in the corner?

[Tong]

22C dash j.A

An exclamation mark will appear if you do it right.

I remember practicing it this way, not sure if it's 100% right though.

[Gramas]

ok

But how do you practice that?using all block wont work,do you record the dummy recovering from the stagger and block low?seems tricky to start the playback in the exact moment

[Fluck]

Ragna has better average damage than pretty much...anyone else. That's why people complain about his damage.

[-Seo]

ok

But how do you practice that?using all block wont work,do you record the dummy recovering from the stagger and block low?seems tricky to start the playback in the exact moment

Set dummy to crouch and block, and do an overhead?