[CSE] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[donelf]

i want to try it too but i can't lol my friend borrowed our copy so i can't experiment some stuffs counting on you man

[donelf]

i also want to try that too but my friend borrowed our copy so lol can't experiment and do stuffs goodluck about that lumin

[LuminAbyss]

No worries bro, there's no rush.

Like, as far as I've seen from my fights, cross-up j.C works depending on a few factors:

-How high you are in the air

-How tall your opponent's character's is

-How wide your opponent's character's hitbox is

For example, I've done it low to the ground against Bang before, but when I went into training mode, I found I couldn't do the same to Jin or Ragna.

When done from higher up, it can be made to work on skinnier characters such as Jin or Ragna, but that also makes it harder to capitalize off of, since j.D does not have a cross-up hitbox, and so you might have to rely on D or C ID and a rapid cancel.

Not sure how useful this will all turn out to be, but I absolutely love cross-ups, and you wouldn't believe how ambigious this can look.

Edited March 19, 2012 by LuminAbyss

[VR-Raiden]

I was curious too so I went ahead and tested j.C cross up stuff on everyone. See if you get different results.

-From very close range, normal forward jump over > j.C can cross up on:

everyone except Noel, Taokaka.

-Same situation, you can do the j.C low enough to connect 5A after it on:

everyone except Lambda, Mu, Jin, Litchi (found this difficult to do consistently on anyone. Tager you can do 5B easy)

So in summary it looks worth using on everyone except those characters.

This brought up an old gimmick I remember trying back in CT, and it seems better now. I can't say for certain but I think it works on more characters than it used to.

-jump over > airdash back j.B > j.C:

EDIT: this is still finicky as shit, will need to test it more.

Completely unrelated issue, I noticed something about 6D. I'm led to believe the invulnerability area is larger than it used to be. I remember testing what non-low 2A's 6D could dodge in CS1/CS2 and only found that it dodged Noel and Rachel's. In Extend it's dodging everyone's except Tagers. The way I tested this was Ragna 2A blocked > 6D, and I would try to 2A him immediately after normal blocking his 2A.

Edited March 27, 2012 by VR-Raiden

[LuminAbyss]

-jump over > airdash back j.B > j.C:

EDIT: this is still finicky as shit, will need to test it more.

This works on everyone, it's just harder on some characters cause you might have to be higher up for the j.C to connect and not just whiff. Good shit VR-Raiden, I love you like a brother

[VR-Raiden]

This works on everyone, it's just harder on some characters cause you might have to be higher up for the j.C to connect and not just whiff. Good shit VR-Raiden, I love you like a brother

Unfortunately that isn't what I've been finding. Try it in training there's definitely only a few characters the j.C will actually connect on at all. It whiffs on any characters not listed below. This is what I got from testing it on everyone at the same height with a recording.

- dash jump over > air dash back j.B > j.C

j.B hit, j.C hits

- Bang, Hakumen, Rachel, Tager

j.B blocked, j.C is stand blocked

- Hakumen, Arakune, Tager

j.B blocked, j.C hits crouch attempt crouching

- Hakumen, Bang, Litchi, Tao, Relius

j.B blocked, j.C hits crouch attempt standing

- Arakune, Tager

Theory fighter mode: activate. The way I see it, this trick will hit people most often like so. When they block the j.B, they will block low thinking you don't have another air attack coming. j.C will hit the listed characters for switching to crouch block, even though it whiffs on some if they were to get hit by the j.B or continue stand blocking. It can be treated the same way on everyone it hits a crouch attempt on, but you get an actual solid block string on people the j.C never whiffs (Hakumen, Arakune, Tager).

So it's a gimmick that could possibly be useful Hakumen, Bang, Litchi, Tao, Relius, Arakune, and Tager. Obvious problem with it: it relies on the opponent sticking in one place for a long time so not easy to apply.

wow so much for practicing Blood Kain combos today

Edited March 27, 2012 by VR-Raiden

[SanguineScale]

Got a sort of lower level question regarding Ranga's approach in CS:EX. I've heard from a lot of people that Ragna's j.C is very good. I've seen videos of players getting jump-ins by first jump back once or twice and then instant air-dashing into the opponent leading with j.c. This is one of my few approaches, but I tend to muck it up, usually by missing the instant air-dash. I also feel I overuse jump-ins, particularly this one. Any advice on how often and in what manner to use instant air-dash into j.C?

Also, my ground approaches vary depending on the matchup I'm facing, but usually boil down to either playing footsies with 5B or 2B, and in some situations, neither are applicable. I'm currently weighing the options of my other normals, and I was hoping for some pointers in that regard. Basically, my approach with Rags is garbage, which stinks because I see so many people play him offensively... I could be a patient Ragna if I wanted to be, and I did try that for a while, but being versed in a little offense couldn't hurt.

[LuminAbyss]

Ragna in general isn't the best character to have in the air. j.C's buffs certainly do help his air game (a lot, actually, it was really necessary), but ultimately, AD in will just get you anti-aired in one way or another. If I'm in the air, I find myself using j.A more to beat people air-to-air, and even for jumping in, as it's fast, needs to be blocked high, and actually has alright range. j.C should be used as an air spacing tool, not really to get into someone's face unless they block it.

Also be careful with transitioning from air normals to ground normals when you get the opponent blocking, it's not gapless in most cases, and you can get hit out of your attempts to start pressure.

As for his ground approaching, 5B and 2B generally are your best bets due to their ranges, hitboxes, and speed. However, 5C also does a great job at this, and can lead to some pretty damn good damage on CH. Once you start watching and adapting to your opponent even more, recognizing their patterns, you can even start fishing for counter hits with 2D (Ragna's longest range normal). Both of Ragna's jabs also have their uses at neutral as emergency stuffs, anti-airs, etc.

So to review, because my paragraphs make little sense

j.A: Best air to air tool and generally being in their face while airborne. Has a pretty good downward jab hitbox.

j.C: Best used as a spacing tool, it's still too slow to reliably restart pressure or air-dash approach with.

5B/2B: Both still your go to tools at neutral. Fast start-up, fast recovery, and in 5B's case, good active frames. But when those won't work...

5C: Hit them with this. Be careful though, it's not as fast as his B pokes.

2D: Now you're just being greedy. Use this only when you feel comfortable and can read your opponent well, it's not fast on start-up OR recovery.

Ragna's approaching works best when you abuse his range. once you have them blocking/getting hit by that stuff, that's when you get in.

[MashThat5A]

j.A: Best air to air tool

You should really try using j.D for air-to-air footsies.

[LuminAbyss]

You should really try using j.D for air-to-air footsies.

I do.

I still prefer j.A. j.D does help make the Arakune match up easier though. Besides, he's asking about approaching, meaning he's probaby in the air, and they're on the ground, which means he wants downward hitboxes, which both j.A and j.C have.

I wouldn't approach with j.D if someone paid me a hundred dollars, gave me a hot girlfriend, and then gave me another hundred dollars. Maybe if they gave me another hot girlfriend though.

It's a great air-to-air tool too though yes.

Edited March 27, 2012 by LuminAbyss

[VR-Raiden]

Does 22C > (they tech immediately) > dash j.A fuzzy work on anyone besides these characters?

Ragna

Hazama

Tager

Relius

Those are the only ones I got it to work on. Oh and Jin, but j.C whiffs after j.A hits him

[LuminAbyss]

Try Litchi, Lambda and Hakumen.

[VR-Raiden]

Try Litchi, Lambda and Hakumen.

Well I tried everyone and couldn't get it on them. Tried some more and still can't. Did you get it on these three? I'm surprised it doesn't work on Litchi or Hakumen.

[LuminAbyss]

I was just guessing, cause I have a fuzzy set-up using j.A that works on those three (in addition to the characters listed before). I guess it doesn't work man.

I think it has to do with the distance you need to cover after the 22C. :C

[VR-Raiden]

Ok, yeah it's a shame it only works so few.

Wanted to know who it all worked on cuz I'm thinking of trying to work it into my game more after enforcing 22C techs with the dash 3C>22C+D OS thing. Until they reversal DP/super out of the tech, then I get sad.

[Yggjrasil]

It works on Valkenhayn also. The j.A fuzzy guard set-up.

[VR-Raiden]

It works on Valkenhayn also. The j.A fuzzy guard set-up.

I'm not getting it on Valk.

Recording Ragna 3C > 22C > immediate dash j.A, player set to tech 22C. Recorded it first on Ragna to get the timing right (when timing is right CPU will block the j.A even when they aren't set to block).

[LuminAbyss]

Now I should go to bed.

[Yggjrasil]

I'm not getting it on Valk.

Recording Ragna 3C > 22C > immediate dash j.A, player set to tech 22C. Recorded it first on Ragna to get the timing right (when timing is right CPU will block the j.A even when they aren't set to block).

D: I was just practicing this earlier, and I was able to do it on Valk. Hmmm... Maybe I'm timing it wrong.

Edited March 28, 2012 by Yggjrasil

[VR-Raiden]

D: I was just practicing this earlier, and I was able to do it on Valk. Hmmm... Maybe I'm timing it wrong.

If you were getting the red ! when the j.A hit then it was working, but otherwise he can crouch it before it connects. That's what I'm getting, j.A can hit but if he crouches it whiffs over him instead of hitting his standing hitbox for the crouch attempt.

[Yggjrasil]

Ah I see now... Yeah, you're right.

[SanguineScale]

Ragna in general isn't the best character to have in the air. j.C's buffs certainly do help his air game (a lot, actually, it was really necessary), but ultimately, AD in will just get you anti-aired in one way or another. If I'm in the air, I find myself using j.A more to beat people air-to-air, and even for jumping in, as it's fast, needs to be blocked high, and actually has alright range. j.C should be used as an air spacing tool, not really to get into someone's face unless they block it.

Also be careful with transitioning from air normals to ground normals when you get the opponent blocking, it's not gapless in most cases, and you can get hit out of your attempts to start pressure.

As for his ground approaching, 5B and 2B generally are your best bets due to their ranges, hitboxes, and speed. However, 5C also does a great job at this, and can lead to some pretty damn good damage on CH. Once you start watching and adapting to your opponent even more, recognizing their patterns, you can even start fishing for counter hits with 2D (Ragna's longest range normal). Both of Ragna's jabs also have their uses at neutral as emergency stuffs, anti-airs, etc.

So to review, because my paragraphs make little sense

j.A: Best air to air tool and generally being in their face while airborne. Has a pretty good downward jab hitbox.

j.C: Best used as a spacing tool, it's still too slow to reliably restart pressure or air-dash approach with.

5B/2B: Both still your go to tools at neutral. Fast start-up, fast recovery, and in 5B's case, good active frames. But when those won't work...

5C: Hit them with this. Be careful though, it's not as fast as his B pokes.

2D: Now you're just being greedy. Use this only when you feel comfortable and can read your opponent well, it's not fast on start-up OR recovery.

Ragna's approaching works best when you abuse his range. once you have them blocking/getting hit by that stuff, that's when you get in.

Thanks for the help Lumin. I'll start looking into Ragna's footsies and spacing more in depth. Nice combo vid btw.

[Arvoyea]

Ragna in general isn't the best character to have in the air. j.C's buffs certainly do help his air game (a lot, actually, it was really necessary), but ultimately, AD in will just get you anti-aired in one way or another. If I'm in the air, I find myself using j.A more to beat people air-to-air, and even for jumping in, as it's fast, needs to be blocked high, and actually has alright range. j.C should be used as an air spacing tool, not really to get into someone's face unless they block it.

Also be careful with transitioning from air normals to ground normals when you get the opponent blocking, it's not gapless in most cases, and you can get hit out of your attempts to start pressure.

As for his ground approaching, 5B and 2B generally are your best bets due to their ranges, hitboxes, and speed. However, 5C also does a great job at this, and can lead to some pretty damn good damage on CH. Once you start watching and adapting to your opponent even more, recognizing their patterns, you can even start fishing for counter hits with 2D (Ragna's longest range normal). Both of Ragna's jabs also have their uses at neutral as emergency stuffs, anti-airs, etc.

So to review, because my paragraphs make little sense

j.A: Best air to air tool and generally being in their face while airborne. Has a pretty good downward jab hitbox.

j.C: Best used as a spacing tool, it's still too slow to reliably restart pressure or air-dash approach with.

5B/2B: Both still your go to tools at neutral. Fast start-up, fast recovery, and in 5B's case, good active frames. But when those won't work...

5C: Hit them with this. Be careful though, it's not as fast as his B pokes.

2D: Now you're just being greedy. Use this only when you feel comfortable and can read your opponent well, it's not fast on start-up OR recovery.

Ragna's approaching works best when you abuse his range. once you have them blocking/getting hit by that stuff, that's when you get in.

Oh snap, just what I was looking for. Thank you very much! Figuring out how to pressure with Ragna has always been a problem with me.

[LuminAbyss]

If you need any more help or anything, just ask away. We'll all help out.

[SolheartStud]

Alright I'm probably gonna ask a stupid question but I just can't seem to find the thread I'm looking for.

If there is, can you guys point me to where I can learn option selects or at least Ragna's OS? I suppose while I'm at it, wasn't there a thread to learn everyone's gattlings or has that just all been completely moved to the Frame data/engine wiki part?

Sorry for the dumb question, but I'd really appreciate the help guys!