[CSE] Ragna Gameplay Discussion

[Gramas]

Set dummy to crouch and block, and do an overhead?

got hit,Im a retard -_-

just set to

crouch

blocks: everything

block switching: disabled

[LuminAbyss]

Ragna has better average damage than pretty much...anyone else. That's why people complain about his damage.

People seem to forget he has average pressure and average mix-up compared to everyone else, but yeah, that's why people think that way.

[VR-Raiden]

ok

But how do you practice that?using all block wont work,do you record the dummy recovering from the stagger and block low?seems tricky to start the playback in the exact moment

The way I tested it a bit ago was made Ragna the training dummy. Set dummy to recover from 22C stagger. Record Ragna doing 3C > 22C > immediate dash j.A. If you got the timing right, the dash j.A will be blocked automatically even though they aren't set to block. Replay and manually tech+crouch immediately, if the red ! shows you got it. That way you found might be easier though.

Also, it works midscreen and corner on only these characters:

Ragna, Hazama, Tager, Relius

Edited April 7, 2012 by VR-Raiden

[Legacy Edge]

hello, im new to Ragna, can i get some opinions on challenge 8?

Is it any good to use in matches? Anything more optimal/safer?

[-Seo]

hello, im new to Ragna, can i get some opinions on challenge 8?

Is it any good to use in matches? Anything more optimal/safer?

It's mainly the combo you'd use when your back is closer to the corner. You're better off doing 6B>5C>6C>6B>5C>5D>5C>6A>j.D>j.D>DID. If you're close enough to the corner you can do j.214c after the second j.D and then finish with a quick dash 5D > 22c or DID.

[Legacy Edge]

I see, thanks. I planned to use it more as a tool to push my opponent to the corner, but i will also try what you recommended.

[Callisto]

Having a ton of trouble with 6D j.D 5D(I think there's one in trial 13?), it never seems like I can land in time to get the 5D out before the tech, anyone have an idea as to what I'm missing?

[-Seo]

Delay the j.D as much as you possibly can. It can feel a little tricky at first, but you'll get used to it fairly quickly.

[VR-Raiden]

Yeah delay the j.D. Advanced input (holding button) can help with getting the 5D out asap if you want to use that.

[Callisto]

Delay the j.D as much as you possibly can. It can feel a little tricky at first, but you'll get used to it fairly quickly.

Yeah delay the j.D. Advanced input (holding button) can help with getting the 5D out asap if you want to use that.

Thanks, the combination of these two did it. I always forget about advanced input.

[Fluck]

Was reading the wiki and imo 3C is well worth using in strings, it's a low option after 2B is blocked that can't be mashed out of. If you don't use this move often enough opponents will just disrespect your mixup after 2B and stand up all the time. If you get 3C starter into 22C in the corner, you can RC and it's like 5.8k for a faceroll combo.

Edit: Whoops, help me move this to the other thread please KF.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Fluck

[Dont_Explain]

I think we should have a Gameplan section for each matchup along with what we can punish. VR-Raiden you think you could copy pasta this to all your posts with the punishes? This way we know what moves beat what from the start, things we dodge from afar (if they have something like that), any particular moves we should do up close, and moves that are the basis of the opponents gameplan and how we should deal with them. If there's something else you think (or anyone else) should be in there, add it.

Gameplan:

From the start:

From afar:

Up close:

Countering their gameplan:

[Tong]

There's no such thing as a script to play Ragna, you just need to feel how far and safe your moves/strings are and read your opponent's behavior and tendencies.

That's the problem with Ragna, you can't do much if your opponent is very good at blocking and teching... Ragna's play relies on punishing mistakes and poor defense.

VR Raiden made an awesome job explaining how to punish almost every single situation on each match-up, superb.

[Dont_Explain]

Yeah, I guess I just felt like it could be more clear as to what your opponent wants to do most of the time, so you counter/punish those actions by being in the right place and knowing what to expect.

[VR-Raiden]

I think we should have a Gameplan section for each matchup along with what we can punish. VR-Raiden you think you could copy pasta this to all your posts with the punishes? This way we know what moves beat what from the start, things we dodge from afar (if they have something like that), any particular moves we should do up close, and moves that are the basis of the opponents gameplan and how we should deal with them. If there's something else you think (or anyone else) should be in there, add it.

Gameplan:

From the start:

From afar:

Up close:

Countering their gameplan:

I wouldn't mind including stuff like this. Yeah the stuff I listed so far is mostly limited to punishing things after blocking them, it doesn't get into what moves are good when in the match, strategy for playing the match, etc. I can try to compile what people have said and provide some of my own input if possible but I don't pretend to have the best insight on each match up so suggestions from more experienced players would be welcome. If anything it could spark some more match up discussion.

[donelf]

can someone help what kind of pressure i will do next after i done the ender hells fang 22c? i don't know what to do next after i done that ender

[LuminAbyss]

You have plenty of options off a 22C ender.

• You can dash 5A > Throw or just empty dash in throw.
  
• You can dash 5A > TK Gauntlet Hades as a throw bait or fast overhead
  
• You can dash 2B/3C in an attempt to catch them blocking standing (since 22C forces standing)
  
• You can dash 5A/2A > 6B
  
• You can dash 5A > 5B > String of your choice
  
  
  Keep in mind that on Ragna, Relius, Hazama, and Tager, you can go for the dash j.A fuzzy set-up.
  
  All of these will lose to frame 1 reversals, but if they're respecting, this is all great. And be sure to switch it up to keep them on their toes. Alternatively, if you feel like they are going to attempt to reversal out, you can dash and barrier brake to block whatever they throw out, and then punish them for it.
  
  I fucking love 22C
  
  Off a Hell's Fang ender, you also have plenty of options.
  
  
  
  • Safe jump in to bait DPs or reversals.
    
  • Meaty 5B to force blocking.
    
  • Meaty 6B for a surprise overhead.
    
  • Whiff 5A/2A into a throw
    
  • Meaty j.B/j.C for an overhead and to resume pressure if they block successfully.
    
  • Meaty spaced Deadspike to bait reversals or force blocking. This will also catch rolls.
    

  Get creative. I'd recommend the Meaty 5B (on characters without access to a frame 1 reversal) or safe jumps until you know they will respect you.

Edited April 17, 2012 by LuminAbyss

[MashThat5A]

And if you want to be godlike after 22C just stand there and stare at them in the face.

[LuminAbyss]

And if you want to be godlike after 22C just stand there and stare at them in the face.

I do this sometimes on accident

[donelf]

okay thanks for the tips i usually don't move after i done the hells fang 22c i just smiled lol

[WolfCrimson]

Man, I've been watching a few GG matches starring Inoue (O-Sol player) and it got me wondering...

As it is, 2D is a spacing tool that hardly sees use in footsies because it's slow. What would happen if they made 2D have head and body invul. during start-up, but kept everything else about it the same?

[LuminAbyss]

That would be amazing (as much as I doubt it ever getting that). It would be used even more as a footsies tool.

;-; make it happen Mori.

[Dont_Explain]

Man, I've been watching a few GG matches starring Inoue (O-Sol player) and it got me wondering...

As it is, 2D is a spacing tool that hardly sees use in footsies because it's slow. What would happen if they made 2D have head and body invul. during start-up, but kept everything else about it the same?

Then they would probably put the Force Breaks from GG into BB and that would have to be one. For that to be a regular move.....dear god. 18 frames of head and body invul would be silly.

[WolfCrimson]

Well... I didn't mean that it would have head and body invul through the whole startup (i.e. from frame 1 till the first active frame), maybe like from frame 8 till the first active frame, so that it can beat other footsie tools MOST of the time, IF both Rags and the opponent attempt to footsie at around the same time... but it can be beat if the opponent attacks sooner, and if he jumps forward and attacks, cuz 2D has some recovery.

(lol I got the idea from O-Sol's Fafnir. 2D and Fafnir look so similar)

Edited April 21, 2012 by WolfCrimson

[Dont_Explain]

I mean I wouldn't be against it (MOAR RAGNA BUFFS), but I'm sure people would see it as unnecessary and something else they would have to worry about. I don't think there is a way to avoid anymore Ragna hate than there already is, plus i would like to use 2D more.