Kuuhaku Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) While running away is a perfectly viable tactic, there's always a way to open someone up. Rachel has some really nasty setups in the corner like making them block George and then doing either a really deep j.B or 2B. Stuff like that or even stuff like 5B 2D j.B is really hard to react to. If they're blocking consistently, you're being too predictable with your mixup. Even people with really godlike defense can't guess every 50 50 right. Staggering strings not only fishes out mashing, but it can also throw off IB timing or make it more ambiguous as to what you're going to do next. 4B does suck, but people do get hit by it... try doing weird stuff once in a while like 2A 4B. Edited January 22, 2012 by Bohemian Polka
LuminAbyss Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Rachel has some really nasty setups in the corner like making them block George and then doing either a really deep j.B or 2B. Stuff like that or even stuff like 5B 2D j.B is really hard to react to. If they're blocking consistently, you're being too predictable with your mixup. Even people with really godlike defense can't guess every 50 50 right. If there's one thing I pride myself in, it's my defense, and Rachel just makes me scared to block. Doesn't she have instant overheads with her j.A and j.B? That shit is evil.
Kuuhaku Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 j.A is an instant overhead and also gapless. j.b is slower, but still pretty fast and is good for fuzzy guards. Rachel offense does have some trouble with ORE GA BARRIER, but barrier now wears down pretty fast so you can't rely on that either.
Dreiko Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 I just guard point the hell away if I'm in the corner against Rachel but the only times I get hit by 4B if I block is if they do it right after JC in some weird meaty fashion that too confusing to block I guess.
Herbal Grey Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) i lost four times this weekend in casuals / west toast tourney...these were the characters i lost to: platinum (xie), litchi (donavan), hazama (guymam), and lambda (severin)......is it a coincidence that these are three characters against whom rachel can't do the instant overhead plus the best player at lambda? i think not -_- ... instant overhead is very important ... but my neutral game also needs work. i was so sad when i ran out of wind and was getting zoned by platinum...stupid bombs being directable now also! i was SOOO sad when a tager (balonios) ib'd my instant overhead j.a j.b then 720'd me TT__TT i shoulda done a jump after the j.b but STILL. Edited January 23, 2012 by Herbal Grey
Yggjrasil Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Hey at least I place in tournaments. Where are you at,Lumin? Oh wait, thats right sitting at home playing dating sims with a girl you have no chance of getting with. You disgust me.
Herbal Grey Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) zong didnt go bc he had a date.... lumin's good decent company lol. what's dumb about "placing" in tourneys though is that the person who got second shinATproof is someone whom i destroyed later in teams (haku). the 4th place was a tager whom i can beat 15 games in a row (balonios, mr ib 720 my ioh grr) i feel like matchups in this game are so skewed it's not funny (coughhhh matchup chart so dumbb)...it just happened that i got xie in the first round and then another one of my 3 least favorite matchups (litchi) and don's good. i'm also free to severin thank god i didn't play him...until teams i also beat the 5th, 6th, and 7th place ppl in casuals, it just happened that i got don -_- Edited January 23, 2012 by Herbal Grey
[SpA]Relentless Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) j.A 2D is easy to react to if you got a small crouching hitbox. I don't think I got hit by a single one against Sakaku (and vice versa). Either it whiffs if you do it too early or you can easily block it in time. I also managed to block most empty jumps into lows. I didn't even try some myself though, shame on me. I should've gone for more fuzzy guards/j.[C] mixups but haven't practiced them enough beforehand. Ironically everytime I tried a j.B 2D fuzzy guard he decided to not block it and my 2nd high whiffed (just to clarify: Of course you're right when you say people get hit by 2d j.B occasionally. But it doesn't work consistently and if you want to fuzzy guard, a single j.B is extremely hard to hitconfirm). 4B can throw off IB timing but if the opponent also never tries to IB... what do? I managed to hit him with it sometimes when I did it 3 or 4 times in a row with TK iris/empty jump 3D inbetween (as I said - when he fell asleep :D) Worst thing of all though was getting hit by 3CD 5A pressure resets. That shit is impossible to IB :/ Edited January 23, 2012 by [SpA]Relentless
Herbal Grey Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 @ggj.... lol @spa... this doesn't make sense, he's blocking your delayed j.a but not your delayed j.b? that's just random chance. he's not consciously thinking, i'm gonna not block this j.b because it's a fuzzy guard. if he's not blocking your j.b you can follow with 5b.
[SpA]Relentless Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 I didn't mean it that way, just that I feel like he's doing that on purpose (obviously he doesn't) It's hard to hitconfirm j.B into 5B if you want to leave fuzzy guard as an option.
Herbal Grey Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 i don't think it's really hitconfirming at that level really, you just have to decide beforehand...either you think he'll block the j.b or you think he won't. it's really a guessing game. the neutral game is really the meaty part because if you can pressure rachel into the corner, there are a LOT of things that rachel can do once she's locked down her prey, and no amount of blocking, even low crouching characters, will save them from a few hits or combos, whether it's simply extended mixup, fork staggering, or tricksy 1d crossups. this is where especially the mirror determines the winner. who can capitalize and work the other rachel into the corner.
kotokot Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 5A>j.A works on Rachel as instant overhead(i.e. when Rachel is in blockstun she have lower vulnerable box) you must stream this next time >< now i hate Valkenhayn( he is fucking hard to hit with lobelia or pumpkin and he can safejump the only yours AA for this matchup(2C) either with grounding and blocking after hitstop or if he was enough high to make 2C whiff while hitting with his j.C. And in his pressure you must see if he doing his wolf 5B, after this you have to block or eat CH. Instant blocking this shit is too mad(
LuminAbyss Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Hey at least I place in tournaments. Where are you at,Lumin? Oh wait, thats right sitting at home playing dating sims with a girl you have no chance of getting with. You disgust me. Livin' the dream man.
Yggjrasil Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 I have no dreams! D:< They've all been shattered like the hopes I've had in trusting people!
LuminAbyss Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 It's okay GGJ. You can always start over. I will hold your hand.
Yggjrasil Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 It's okay GGJ. You can always start over. I will hold your hand. I humbly refuse your offer, but show gratitude towards your gesture.
kirbster Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 @Herbal: I dont think I ever beat a Litchi in tournament And yeah, gotta be real careful against Tager with jumping moves. He can option select a 720 when you're landing, thats why I try to end with j.C before landing to continue pressure. Also you asked me how I get mag'd not fullscreen : its like Gli said... When Tager has a spark bolt, suddenly half your options are cut and thats when he comes at me (bro). But yeah, playing 150% lame has helped me a bit, but since you cant make even ONE mistake against Tager, and I'm learning stick...
Kuuhaku Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Herbal- I'm not sure if I'm just not reading your post right, but j.A instant overhead works on all of those characters but Litchi. kotokot- Yes. 5A. j.A is a good option too. 5A j.A is not gapless, but Rachel doesn't have anything 1F so 5A j.A does work as an alternative. If you're having the issue of 5B j.A whiffing, then switching to 5A won't help unless you're doing it because they're barriering and you want to lessen push back. SPA- No. You cannot react to 5B 2D j.A. They're purely guessing because you're likely using it at the same spots in your block string. If you were to do your same block string but instead do 5B 2D 2B, they'd probably get hit because they're just standing up because they think you're going to do it, not reacting. Hence it's a guess. With Rachel you need to time it a bit better because of her crouching hitbox, but from testing it out now, it doesn't look like she leaves block stun after 5B, so j.A hits her about the same time as everyone else. Even if at worst it's like 1F slower, no one has 13F reaction speed. If someone did, they probably would have won SBO already. There's very few characters in BB that have an overhead option that fast, and most only have it in special circumstances. Also, 4B isn't for throwing off IB timing (though I guess you could use it that way), but rather to change up the timing of your overall block string to see if they're really paying attention. If there's a lot going on at once (pumpkin, george, or they think you're out of 4B range) there's a good chance that they'll get hit even thought that thing is awful. Staggering your strings though is for throwing off IB timing on top of fishing out mashing. If they're busy focusing on when to IB, that's less attention span going towards mix ups and setups. Also... a good way to get it to hit consistently on Rachel is to slightly delay the jump cancel from 5B or to jump forward while doing 2D. The first option is easier though, second one is probably easier to confirm into combo. Edited January 23, 2012 by Bohemian Polka
Herbal Grey Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) yeah, that's why i said i should have jumped after j.b but it's still so much sad face. tager having spark bolt option consists of me floating backwards and tager slowly creeping closer until i jump and wind myself to the other side of the stage lol. if he's doing anything besides walking at you, it's punishable. (the combination of needing a stick and peer pressure has caused me to shell out the money and get my own stick too. yay for learning rachel combos again. kirbster, you can commiserate with me) @ polka....i'm pretty sure ioh j.a whiffs those characters (minus lambda) and you have to delay it. if not, i'm performing ioh j.a incorrectly and would greatly appreciate advice Edited January 23, 2012 by Herbal Grey
Kuuhaku Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) yeah, that's why i said i should have jumped after j.b but it's still so much sad face. tager having spark bolt option consists of me floating backwards and tager slowly creeping closer until i jump and wind myself to the other side of the stage lol. if he's doing anything besides walking at you, it's punishable. (the combination of needing a stick and peer pressure has caused me to shell out the money and get my own stick too. yay for learning rachel combos again. kirbster, you can commiserate with me) @ polka....i'm pretty sure ioh j.a whiffs those characters (minus lambda) and you have to delay it. if not, i'm performing ioh j.a incorrectly and would greatly appreciate advice Yeah. You're doing it incorrectly. Hazama is tall enough to where you can even make instant j.A combo into j.C. The two options I listed above for Rachel also work on Hazama too. Should also work for Platinum as well, but I'll double check it when I go to Spark's place. I don't have Platinum. 99% sure it does though. Edited January 23, 2012 by Bohemian Polka
gli Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 j.A on Platinum works normally but I tested this on CS2. I'd contribute more if I had EX :V
Kuuhaku Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Should be fine. I did all my testing on CS2 as well. Pretty sure no one's crouching hitbox changed in CSX (though it would be nice if Litchi got fatter).
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