The Michigan Thread 35 - Kupo.

[Prototype909]

I'd post mine but at the moment it's probably borderline nsfw.

[LuminAbyss]

Axis, BE has an attack level of 4. That's the same as Deadspike or Inferno Divider.

Rapiding with it is legit.

Axis no what are you doing just because I'm asleep doesn't mean you can do this.

[Prototype909]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDSTI1vlOss&t=14m15s

[Delrian]

VS mode is like Smash Bros + HnK. So godlike. Trying to get people at casuals to play it.

Single player starts nice, then transitions smoothly into "Oh god why." Game is legit.

Yeah, nobody's interested in playing VS with me... oh well.

[A.X.I.S.]

Axis, BE has an attack level of 4. That's the same as Deadspike or Inferno Divider.

Rapiding with it is legit.

Axis no what are you doing just because I'm asleep doesn't mean you can do this.

You know what I was wrong about attack level.

RCing BE is still ass though.

trust me if I can 360A it without IBing first and grab you before your jab comes out (it's not a frame 1 reversal) then wouldn't you think it's fishy?

Do whatever you want fuck it.

If it gets you wins then I won't complain about it.

Edited May 11, 2012 by A.X.I.S.

[rubedo]

so how about them casuals

[Delrian]

Them nonexistent casuals?

EDIT: Or can 50 host? I don't remember.

[blakmaphia]

Them nonexistent casuals?

EDIT: Or can 50 host? I don't remember.

Question marks all around on this one.

[Brandinoli]

Steak

[blakmaphia]

Derp dErp deRp derP DERP

[A.X.I.S.]

derpaderp derp derp derpydooderp

[LunaKage]

WHO SAID STEAK?

[blakmaphia]

WHO SAID STEAK?

Fuck now im hungry. Thanks alot Luna.....

[Skye]

Axis, BE has an attack level of 4. That's the same as Deadspike or Inferno Divider.

Rapiding with it is legit.

Arakune's 5d is a lvl 4 attack, I have to jump cancel it to make it marginally safe. I'm forced into a defensive, evasive position because any and everyone's 5a will beat anything I try after a 5d on block.

His dives are also lvl 4, -11 on block and not any more safe when RC'd.

Levels ain't shit.

[LunaKage]

Arakune's 5d is a lvl 4 attack, I have to jump cancel it to make it marginally safe. I'm forced into a defensive, evasive position because any and everyone's 5a will beat anything I try after a 5d on block.

His dives are also lvl 4, -11 on block and not any more safe when RC'd.

Levels ain't shit.

Dude that's just because the move itself is ass on block and punishable.

Noel's 2C is +1 and is level 3. If I'm close enough to you on normal block, and you don't have a reversal or some kind of move that would beat out my 5A, then you can't do shit.

If I Rapid cancel it, I pretty much get a free 6B attempt and there isn't a whole lot you can do outside of reversals.

[mAc Chaos]

I don't get how the level stuff interacts with + or - frames. I mean, if a 5A is +5 on block or something, then what else do you need to know. How do the levels come into it.

[Skye]

Dude that's just because the move itself is ass on block and punishable.

The inconsistency is my entire point.

Levels ain't shit.

[LuminAbyss]

Levels are shit for Ragna.

It's what makes 2C a worse move overall since it's nerf from level 4 to level 3 from CS1 to CS2. It's +1 either way, but worse as a move in blockstrings and such because of it.

Levels indicate how much blockstun and hitstun a move have. Hitstop can affect what it feels like, and spacing and pushback can affect it's relative safety and all, but the reality is those numbers are never actually changed.

If a move is level 4, and you rapid it immediately as the opponent blocks it, than you are +18. Simple as that.

Now if the moves pushes you back significantly upon successful block, even if you rapid it, it's not gonna feel like you can do much. Ragna's 2D is a perfect example of that, the pushback on that makes rapid cancelling it in blockstrings a questionable thing to do to attempt to restart pressure. It's level 5, so you're +20 on RC, but you're gonna be spending a good amount of those plus frames covering the distance to get back in your opponents face, plus the start-up of whatever you decide to throw out whenever you get close. I mean, he has 5B and 5C so it's not TOO big of an issue, but it's still not the best idea, save the meter for something else, etc.

Disclaimer: I'm pretty sure this is how things work. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I read the system mechanics and all that.

Edited May 11, 2012 by LuminAbyss

[mAc Chaos]

So if there was a move that was like -20 on block, and it's level 4, and you RC it, you'd still be +18?

[A.X.I.S.]

..............................

Oh god...what am I fucking seeing...

I...I am not gonna say anything about this.

Fucking ugh.

[LuminAbyss]

So if there was a move that was like -20 on block, and it's level 4, and you RC it, you'd still be +18?

I think so, your opponent is in 18 frames of blockstun, and you're not in recovery. Makes sense that you would be plus, yes.

..............................

Oh god...what am I fucking seeing...

I...I am not gonna say anything about this.

Fucking ugh.

Nigga, if I'm wrong, correct me. D:

[Prototype909]

Also because Lumin told me to (prob nsfw, just to be safe) Edited May 11, 2012 by Prototype909

[The Katz]

You know what I was wrong about attack level.

RCing BE is still ass though.

trust me if I can 360A it without IBing first and grab you before your jab comes out (it's not a frame 1 reversal) then wouldn't you think it's fishy?

Do whatever you want fuck it.

If it gets you wins then I won't complain about it.

I think I'll touch on this anyway.

360A isn't a frame 1 reversal, it's a frame 3 reversal. Close enough vs sloppy players.

If I RC the second to last hit and 5A without you IB'ing then you won't leave blockstun. Hell, I could probably get away with doing 2B before you begin to leave stun.

It's the same exact thing as RC'ing Gauntlet Hades but with a smaller gap between it and whatever you hit with beforehand, and I see Ragna players use that for mix-up often enough. \o/

Levels ain't shit.

Levels were brought up in relevance to RCing the move, not in relevance to how positive or negative it is on block.

Levels indicate how much blockstun and hitstun a move have. Hitstop can affect what it feels like, and spacing and pushback can affect it's relative safety and all, but the reality is those numbers are never actually changed.

If a move is level 4, and you rapid it immediately as the opponent blocks it, than you are +18. Simple as that.

Now if the moves pushes you back significantly upon successful block, even if you rapid it, it's not gonna feel like you can do much. Ragna's 2D is a perfect example of that, the pushback on that makes rapid cancelling it in blockstrings a questionable thing to do to attempt to restart pressure. It's level 5, so you're +20 on RC, but you're gonna be spending a good amount of those plus frames covering the distance to get back in your opponents face, plus the start-up of whatever you decide to throw out whenever you get close. I mean, he has 5B and 5C so it's not TOO big of an issue, but it's still not the best idea, save the meter for something else, etc.

Disclaimer: I'm pretty sure this is how things work. I could be wrong, it's been a while since I read the system mechanics and all that.

Thank you, Lumin.

Two basic examples that tweedle A and B can understand. Maybe just one, since one of them is from GG

1. Platinum's Heart Car. With the people I talk to about the game, if something is THAT negative we just say it's "negative Heart Car" instead of a number.

I've seen it used to get the other player to block + cover distance, then RC'd into mix-up.

2. Zappa's 6HS. It's a 21-frame-startup overhead that's -26, but is level 5.

You can RC it and hit with an air attack just slightly before you can land and go low, or tick into throw. I do it all the time.

Edited May 12, 2012 by The Katz

[Skye]

Theory Fighter.

EVO 2012.

Grand Finals.

[A.X.I.S.]

Hahaha...

http://www.overthinkingit.com/2012/04/04/megaman/